At this point the AFM jury says "this is a fraud"!!! I'm not even an expert and could tell...Veronica you are the swami, thanks for your input
Hi again. I wouldn't be willing to say fraud at this point. It could just as easily be a car that got smacked hard in the front and just sat out in a field for some years, where it got really rusty. That would account for the inner fender needing to be replaced, the entire floor pan being rotten, and, the block could have gotten cracked in the crash, so it has another motor, but still has the K code heads. But, no matter what the scenario turns out to be, that's still waaaaay too much money for that car. I haven't called my friend to see what he thought about the car yet, mostly because I know what he'll say. If it is a re-body and I ask him what he thinks it's worth, he'll say something like " A couple of years." because altering the vin on a car is a felony. If it's the bad crash scenario, the only things K-code about the car would be the door tag, buck tag, title and heads. Other than that, all that you have is a pretty nice twenty-footer. 65/66 twenty-footer fastbacks are bringing something in the upper teens to low twenties.
As a side note, the car that left the factory with that buck tag was a GT. That's what that PIO on the tag means. Performance/Image Option. That's the GT package. And, I am not a swami or a guru or any of that stuff. I'm just someone that has really, really loved these cars for as far back as I can remember.
That car should not be represented as a "K" mustang, it's obvious that it's a "recreation" and meant to deceive, it's not even a dealer installed "GT pony/package", it's a "RESTOMOD" and should be represented as such, unless we have serious paperwork to document it's pedigree from 1966 it's is a fraud to me...Veronica you have stated that car is "known" and obviously it's well established that it is not what is purported to be...
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Last edited by 2Manystangs; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:16 PM.
Reason: edit
...it's not even a dealer installed "GT pony/package"...
What do you see to indicate that?
The block casting number supposedly used is one that Bob Mannell originally reported as a HiPo block possibility in his SBF book. However, a later listing of errors to his book says that further research revealed that no known HiPo engines used that block casting number.
If I had done a 'major restoration' I would have at least fixed the broken sheet metal surrounding the door latch in the driver's door.
The block casting number supposedly used is one that Bob Mannell originally reported as a HiPo block possibility in his SBF book. However, a later listing of errors to his book says that further research revealed that no known HiPo engines used that block casting number.
If I had done a 'major restoration' I would have at least fixed the broken sheet metal surrounding the door latch in the driver's door.
Hi again. I don't know who did that research, but, whoever it was missed that one completely. C5AE-6015-E is the block that a 66 K code is supposed to have. If the researcher would just stop by my house, I have one sitting in the garage, and a couple more sitting in the attic. I can produce a long line of pictures of 65-67 Shelby GT-350s that still have the original motor and all of them have that casting number. If had more than a couple of K codes myself with the original, vin-stamped motor and all of them had that casting number except for one 64 1/2 that had C4OE-6015-F. I have never seen or heard of a 65-67 K code that had the original motor in it that did not have C5AE-6015-E for the casting number. There is also a wonderful book called The 289 High Performance Mustang by Tony Gregory that documents this fact very well. He's the guy that started that site mentioned by Jack65K. One could bounce this off of the guys at that site and they would tell you the same thing.
As a fun side note, I was the 271st member to register at that site and the registry steward sent me a free copy of Mr. Gregory's book to commemorate the milestone. I like free stuff.
Hi again. That's not a suspicion, it's a statement. Click on this picture then click on it again, maximize the window, then click on it again to get it blown up to full size and you'll see what I'm talking about. I wish people would go ahead and put the arrows on the pictures before they posted the ads. It would certainly make things a little easier for everyone.
OMG I just noticed something when I blew the pic up that Veronica had the arrows on.............the VIN is stamped upward from the bottom of the sheet metal not down from the top........Ford never did that. It is worse than I thought previously. Wow.
Hi again. It was stamped downward, but, he did have the piece that he cut out with the K code vin on it sitting a little to high when he welded it back in.
It's playing tricks on my eyes Half of them look stamped upward and half look stamped downward. Either way, I do see the area where it was welded back in. I really hope that no one gets stuck with that car as advertised.
As usual, you are correct. Sorry about that - my bad. I was reading the wrong page! C5AE--E is the correct K-code block. Its C5AE--E heads, a possible error in the casting number to begin with, that he was saying were not K-code. The heads and block don't normally have the same letter combinations which may be what confused me.
I was still curious what detail might say it was not originally a factory GT. Not that it is, but that from those pictures I wasn't able to tell.
The worst part of this whole deal is that if whoever had done a more careful and proper job of 'restoration' none of these 'problem' details would be obvious at least not from pictures. I could make that fender VIN look flawless with a little work. Same for the door plate, etc. There is no substitute for closely examining a car in person and even then you may get fooled. Its not just a Mustang problem, its common with most old cars.
That VIN stamp photo can be a bit of an optical illusion. I looked at it and it looked stamped up from the bottom, for a second or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy66GT
......The worst part of this whole deal is that if whoever had done a more careful and proper job of 'restoration' none of these 'problem' details would be obvious at least not from pictures. I could make that fender VIN look flawless with a little work. Same for the door plate......
Ivy66GT - Sad, but true. What's to stop the next owner from cleaning it up a bit?
I was curious as to what VIN's were going on Dyanacorn cars. I guess the body is considered just a repair part and maybe it isn't illegal to rebody a car everywhere. Dynacorn should be building a 65/66 Fastback body soon, if not already. Their website states this in the FAQ section:
Q: What about the VIN?
A: Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.
1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority). 2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection. 3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.
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That VIN stamp photo can be a bit of an optical illusion. I looked at it and it looked stamped up from the bottom, for a second or two.
Ivy66GT - Sad, but true. What's to stop the next owner from cleaning it up a bit?
I was curious as to what VIN's were going on Dyanacorn cars. I guess the body is considered just a repair part and maybe it isn't illegal to rebody a car everywhere. Dynacorn should be building a 65/66 Fastback body soon, if not already. Their website states this in the FAQ section:
Q: What about the VIN?
A: Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.
1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority). 2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection. 3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.
Not in California from what I know.
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I've had 60 cars....most of them Mustangs :-)
I don't think there is anything wrong with transferring a VIN from an inner fender that was rusty or damaged to the replacement part on the same car. At least not where I live where you probably can stamp your own VIN as long as you don't lie about it. I know that states can stamp their own VIN on cars when needed and we have seen some of those here on these forums.
The questions we have here are if this car is actually what it is presented to be. I don't know that I can answer that from looking at the pictures. However, even if it were legitimate, there are quite a few things about this car that makes one wonder why a 'major restoration' didn't fix the problems. And, of course, the major question is if this car is worth the asking price which is another issue altogether.
Also I find it quite curious that the photos at the eBay site have changed this morning and the fender VIN and door tag photos have been removed!!! This is indeed fishy making me think the seller is reading our posts almost as we type. If that car is legit, then why remove the pictures?
The claim is that the PASSENGER fender VIN proves the authenticity of the car. The photo we were examining above is of the DRIVERS fender VIN which may well have been legitimately transferred after a repair. But if so, why present its picture. It is the passenger fender VIN that should have been shown.
Anyhow, since the photos are now gone from eBay the story to me has become more interesting. Fortunately, I also have the older pix in my computer cache and can still view the older pix.
Ivy66GT, I just looked at the ebay ad at 1:34pm today(Friday, Oct 30) and the the photos of the VIN and door tag are still there.
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—Winston Churchill
I just looked again at 11:44 Mtn time (10 minutes after you) and the pictures are not there. The buck tag is still there but none of the others. The buck tag is a bolt on and doesn't mean much either.
Try pressing F5 to refresh your screen. I think you are seeing old pix from your own computer, not what is now on eBay. Either that or eBay gives me different pix than it does you.
I wouldn't be willing to say fraud at this point. It could just as easily be a car that got smacked hard in the front and just sat out in a field for some years, where it got really rusty. That would account for the inner fender needing to be replaced, the entire floor pan being rotten, and, the block could have gotten cracked in the crash, so it has another motor, but still has the K code heads. But, no matter what the scenario turns out to be, that's still waaaaay too much money for that car. I haven't called my friend to see what he thought about the car yet, mostly because I know what he'll say. If it is a re-body and I ask him what he thinks it's worth, he'll say something like " A couple of years." because altering the vin on a car is a felony. If it's the bad crash scenario, the only things K-code about the car would be the door tag, buck tag, title and heads. Other than that, all that you have is a pretty nice twenty-footer. 65/66 twenty-footer fastbacks are bringing something in the upper teens to low twenties.
I'm just someone that has really, really loved these cars for as far back as I can remember. 
I like free stuff. 
Click on this picture then click on it again, maximize the window, then click on it again to get it blown up to full size and you'll see what I'm talking about. I wish people would go ahead and put the arrows on the pictures before they posted the ads. It would certainly make things a little easier for everyone. 
Half of them look stamped upward and half look stamped downward. Either way, I do see the area where it was welded back in. I really hope that no one gets stuck with that car as advertised.
