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Environmentally Friendly

3K views 19 replies 4 participants last post by  mhuggler 
#1 ·
Before you guys get too excited, I am not one of "those" people. I rarely hug trees. I don't use organic, grass fed soap, or culture my own weird yogurt soda in the fridge. I don't even burn incense.

I'm more into classic cars because of the styling, the feel, the sound, and all the incredible engineering that goes into these rolling sculptures of ours. I love the rumble of an old V8, and the smell of tire smoke! I'd sooner eat quiche and swing a clump of burning sage around my house than drive a Prius, I think, but it'd be a close call.

Still - something just occurred to me tonight. I was remembering a time when some college kids in Davis CA were walking down the sidewalk next to my '67 Cougar as I sat at a stoplight. Keep in mind, my car is fuel injected, and making a hell of a lot less smog than it would have originally. It didn't even burn oil! But these weirdos started 'coughing' and 'choking' and looking me right in the eye, trying to convey the message that my 'old car' was killing them. At the time, it just made me mad.

But tonight - I had a thought.

How many years on average does a person keep a new car, here in the US? How much oil does it take to build a new car? How much steel? What amount of 'carbon' does it 'footprint' to make all of that happen, and how many new cars would have to have been built for me if I'd bought 50 years worth since my car was made?

Sure, my car gets about 21 MPG, and I drive it a lot (or did! I will again when she's back on the road). But even if the 'newer' cars get a bit better mileage, doesn't that mean that I saved resources, and was 'ecologically friendly' by not putting all those other cars in the dump, or the salvage yard?

By my reckoning, my old Cougar is probably one of the 'greenest' vehicles on the planet, if you factor all that stuff in. Is there anyone in these forums that knows some of the facts, so I can put numbers to my imaginary equation, and prove me right or wrong here?

I want to know just how much of a 'hippie' I really am. :wink:
 
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#2 ·
Hell, you are a better man than i am. I would of either revved up my motor, if i saw them do that crap, or done a small burn out and show them what real "pollution" looks like. However im sure there in cali, havin fun like that would probably have you put in jail for a few years there.

I do believe that there is a lot of chemicals put into new vehicles. The lithium ion batteries, before being implanted into hybrids, produce a larger carbon footprint then a carbureted Cougar.. most cars are even being produced with more plastics and oils. Even then, most new cars are traded in before the lease is even paid off, then those vehicles are either turned into scrap or sent over seas for other uses.

But that makes me mad too, im glad that i am in Texas and people like that know not to mess with people like us. That is until you get down to Austin and then its just a cali dream here.

That is a funny story though, thanks for the experience.
 
#3 ·
Not to stomp on any Californians too hard, but the law enforcement there takes a dim view of tire smoke. They get pretty excited about stuff like that, and start handing out very expensive pieces of paper on a good day. On a bad day, they start crushing cars and taking people to jail!

Don't even get me started on their Department of Motor Vehicles. I spent around 40 hours sitting in their DMV missing work, and over $1000 trying to get my tags switched to California from Kansas, and they never could make it happen. I finally gave up and just carried around all the receipts, temporary driving permits, and paperwork, and drove with expired Kansas plates while I was there. No jury on this planet would've convicted me after what I'd been through.

I was sure relieved to get back to the flatlands, and out of that situation!
 
#4 ·
I recently had to go a couple weeks without pay because the company I work for, a Caterpillar dealer, was planning on income from a natural gas pipeline installation. The tree hugger idiots are of course protesting the installation of this pipeline for fuel that is WAY cleaner than diesel. Also, if they weren't ignorant morons, they would have discovered that the area where the pipeline has been laid is always left in BETTER condition than it was! People survey every square inch of the proposed area and the appropriate things are done to encourage the life of every indigenous plant and animal.... They really are just simpletons.
 
#5 ·
All joking aside - I am all for some of the changes to cars over the years. Things that make our cars more efficient, using less fuel to make more power, less pollution, burning up less of our precious fossil fuel resources? Heck yeah. I also think it's important to be considerate of our environment. If you've ever walked along a busy highway, and seen what's lying in the weeds that people threw out of their cars, we really (as a race) are just a bunch of "Damned dirty apes" to quote Charlton Hesston.

I did some research, and one site says a new car takes approximately 250 gallons of gas (crude oil to make tires, plastics, etc) to make. Not sure if that counts the energy used to smelt all the steel and stamp it out too, or not. An electric vehicle is more like 375, because of the negative impact the batteries have on our environment.

SO - it looks to me like it would depend on how many miles a year you actually drive, to determine if it's 'better for the environment' to keep your old car! If you're driving a pony car that gets 20 MPG that 250 gallons of gas would work out to be 5000 miles of driving. Spread out over 5 years, if that's how long you'd go between new cars, it's only 1000 miles a year. Of course, none of this math takes into account how many dollars would fly out of your wallet to purchase the new car either.

But wait, there's more! What about the impact when the 'throwaway' new car is discarded, and has to be disposed, destroyed, recycled, whatever? That's still a negative impact on the environment too!

Old cars lying in ditches are probably as bad as old paper cups, napkins, and the occasional pair of underwear, right?
 
#6 ·
I'm just trying to do my best to block out and ignore the vast majority of today's society. They seem to be mindless drones that just go along with what the media and select politicians tell them about pollution. Everyone seems to believe that the US covers 90% of the earth and that if americans cut back a little on pollution that the earth would be cleaner. Really? Ask a tree hugger this: How much harmful greenhouse gas is emitted every time a volcano erupts or a giant pocket of frozen methane under the ocean is released? The numbers are staggering. The fact is, the earth is destroying itself(by our definition) faster than we ever could. And global warming? Did everyone forget that as the earth rotates around the sun once a year the entire solar system is revolving around our galaxy every 1000 years? The earth's climate goes in phases with several of such examples. BTW- Emissions do help localized areas such as big cities that have the smog hovering over them however, even that nasty fog is just over localized areas and doesn't have a significant impact on the entire planet.
 
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#7 ·
Danged Hippies

I was remembering a time when some college kids in Davis CA were walking down the sidewalk next to my '67 Cougar as I sat at a stoplight. But these weirdos started 'coughing' and 'choking' and looking me right in the eye, trying to convey the message that my 'old car' was killing them. At the time, it just made me mad.
They were jealous.

But even if the 'newer' cars get a bit better mileage, doesn't that mean that I saved resources, and was 'ecologically friendly' by not putting all those other cars in the dump, or the salvage yard?
I came across this which explains what you are describing:

"Bill Gager, president and CEO of the Automotive Parts Rebuilders Association, said remanufacturing uses between 80 and 85 percent less energy than producing a new part. Labor, machining, and raw materials are saved, while chemical waste and energy consumption are drastically reduced — all of which help keep operations lean."

"Environmentally Friendly The average car owner is unaware of the environmental benefits of a remanufactured part. “There is a whole green pitch that the remanufacturing sector has overlooked for years. Consumers want eco-friendly products, and there’s data showing that green companies grow faster than their competitors,” said Michael Cardone, Jr., president & CEO of Cardone Industries, Inc. “While it’s difficult to get people to spend money on recycling, it’s easy to sell remanufactured goods because the cost is lower. People don’t realize that they’re spending on recycling,” Deegan said. The cost for a remanufactured part is generally 30-50 percent of what a new part would cost, because labor, energy and raw materials are conserved."

See: Remanufacturing: The Original Recycling - Potranco Automotive

I want to know just how much of a 'hippie' I really am. :wink:
You're a hippie.

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Regularity rally


Embrace your inner hippie. :)
 
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#9 ·
You're a hippie. Embrace your inner hippie. :)
So you're saying I should recycle Veronica?

Aw hell. There go my hippie street creds. No way. I'm even gonna spend the money I had earmarked to buy a 'Legalize Pot' T shirt and peace signs. Good thing I hadn't gotten on Amazon yet!

I'm sure not going to send her to the crusher, even if Bill Gager says I should! Heck, maybe I'll even put in a big-block, now that I know I'll never fit in with the environmentalist crowd. They smell of patchouli and depression from meat deprivation anyway.
 
#12 ·
The Sign of the Cat

I've apparently recycled an entire vehicle by myself. :grin:
Mercury used to advertise with a snarling Cougar on the hood of a car.

Vehicle Car Classic car Muscle car Coupé


We made a mini-road trip this past weekend from Tampa to Winter Park to visit my mother. When we got there, my Mother's cat "Goldie" promptly sprawled himself across the hood of our new Mustang.

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Muscle car


Land vehicle Car Motor vehicle Hood Vehicle


It reminded me of the Mercury ads where they would say "At the sign of the Cat!"

Wildlife


Car Vehicle Classic car Coupé Sedan


:smile:
 
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#13 ·
Okay, so more serious question:

Do you guys think it is reasonable to take a run down, worn out old Mustang (or other car!) that is worth nothing, and try to make improvements instead of just bringing it back to stock? If it's only a lowly C code for example, is it stupid to shoot for better performance and still hope for 25+ mpg? Or should I forget all that, and just enjoy a cheap carburetor, without all the fuss?

They've done so much stuff to the old 302 Windsor setups, I wonder where the limits are, really. With a good set of AFR 165s, a roller cam, fuel injection, Dougs Tri-Y headers, and some reasonable highway gears (maybe even 4R70W overdrive transmission), I am on kind of a personal quest to hit 30 mpg hwy, and still make 300 horsepower (at the flywheel).

I'm not there yet, and still trying to finance this build, but it's the direction I am heading so far. What do you think?
 
#14 ·
Okay, so more serious question:

Do you guys think it is reasonable to take a run down, worn out old Mustang (or other car!) that is worth nothing, and try to make improvements instead of just bringing it back to stock? If it's only a lowly C code for example, is it stupid to shoot for better performance and still hope for 25+ mpg? Or should I forget all that, and just enjoy a cheap carburetor, without all the fuss?

They've done so much stuff to the old 302 Windsor setups, I wonder where the limits are, really. With a good set of AFR 165s, a roller cam, fuel injection, Dougs Tri-Y headers, and some reasonable highway gears (maybe even 4R70W overdrive transmission), I am on kind of a personal quest to hit 30 mpg hwy, and still make 300 horsepower (at the flywheel).

I'm not there yet, and still trying to finance this build, but it's the direction I am heading so far. What do you think?
This one is of course, 100% opinion. For me it all comes down to this: You can buy a limitless number of crappy, recycled plastic 2016 Mustangs that get great fuel mileage, handle great, etc., but you can only find so many 1967 Cougars. Once they're gone, they're gone. It's kinda like old wooden roller coasters; it's that thought of possibly not making it back alive that makes it fun!
 
#15 ·
Amen, Mike. I've never wanted to change her into something she wasn't intended to be. Maybe the best way I can put it is "stealth mods". I want people to look at my car and not really be able to notice the changes without a very keen eye. All the same, if engineers back in '66 had the technology to give Veronica twice the power and economy, I think they would have. Her handling is already lightyears ahead of the stock stuff she came with, although a lot of that has to do with radial tires and better rubber compounds.
But dammit, I want to *drive* her! Not put her in a garage and lock the door!
 
#18 ·
Drive what gives you joy.

If I could get 25+ highway MPG and *occasionally* get over 30 with a nice Kansas tailwind, I'd be tickled pink. =)
25 mpg would be extremely good and much easier to reach than 30 mpg. Your stock differential might have a 3.25 gear ratio. If you could change that to maybe a 2.90 ratio it would decrease your RPMs at speed. That would decrease your acceleration but improve your gas mileage.

I am astounded that the new 5.0L V-8 Mustang almost matches the highway gas mileage of the 2.4L I-4 Honda CRV. That shows the importance of aerodynamics, gearing, and engine efficiency.

But dammit, I want to *drive* her! Not put her in a garage and lock the door!
Heck, yea! I would enjoy driving her myself. :smile:
 
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#19 ·
If my friend can hit 28 MPG out on the road in his 'vette, the way he drives, surely I can do as well with Veronica, if I build her right. ;) (And she does have an 8" with 2.80 one-legger rear gears).
 
#20 ·
While it definitely helps fuel mileage by making the engine more efficient, the absolute best way to up mileage is to lower engine rpm. Think of it this way: it's good to have the best atomized and effective charge coming in the cylinder each time the intake valve opens, but there's no better way to lessen fuel consumption than to lower the amount of times that intake valve opens per minute.
 
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