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Please help: Car Won't Start

3K views 20 replies 10 participants last post by  Travis98146 
#1 ·
I hope you're all doing well. My name is Joe, I hope you don't mind but I was having some issues with starting my car, and have been searching all over for some help but unfortunately am stumped despite implementing most information i've found. This if my first car, let alone my first classic car, so please bare with my lack of knowledge.

Here is some background on the car. It is a 1967 Mustang, 200, 3 speed manual. 55,000 on the odometer but unsure if its 55,000 or 155,000. The car was running beautifully just about 1.5 months ago, when it was a little bit warmer. Suddenly when it started to get a tad cold, 60*F about things started to go down hill. The car required a fast idle speed or it wouldnt stay on, and when on it was really really rough. At this point I had a new battery, alternator, starter solenoid, spark plugs and wire, distributor condenser cap and ignition coil, as well as fuel filter. I realized my carb was really old and i could use a new one as the idle mixture screw wasn't doing anything, also the distributor wasn't advancing mechanically or with the vacuum due to age. So i bought a new distributor and new carburetor. And during the midst of installing the new distributor and carburetor i did an oil change, oil filter, and transmission fluid.

The car is turning over but now it won't start. So the car is turning over fine but won't start, although it sounds very close to starting. There is spark at the number 1 spark plug, it is blueish in color. I checked the coil on the side coming from the starter solenoid and it does have power via a test light, i checked the side from distributor and there is power only when the points are open. So there is spark, and i assume that the coil is working fine via these results. I also checked the carburetor and it is squirting fuel when i pull the accelerator spring thing, but i also tried putting a bit of fuel directly in the carburetor to see if it'll fire to eliminate the fuel pump being the issue. Also the rotor is on, it feels pretty tight but i feel it could be a bit tighter, as there is a tiny bit of play side to side.

So i'm not entirely sure what the problem could be or what to search for now. I was thinking i put in the distributor in wrong, but here is how i put it in: I put my finger in the hole of the number 1 spark plug, started turning over the engine by hand, felt for the pressure to blow my finger off, and to hear the air hissing, i then kept turning over the engine until i got the white line timing light on TDC. I put the distributor in making sure i left room to advance the timing without having the vacuum advance in the way, as well as made sure that the rotor would be pointing at the #1 spark plug on the distributor cap.

The car sounds very close to starting, but it just feels it needs a little push. With the battery fully charged i tried starting it with the rotor at i believe would be 0* advancing which was with the rotor pointing at the number 1 spark plug. No luck starting but it did sound close, so i attempting turning the housing a tad by advancing it and no luck there either. The carburetor did blow out some steam/vapor while i was doing this. I'm afraid to try anything else, but any advice would be much much appreciated!!

Best regards,
Joe.
 
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#2 ·
If it helps the distributor assembly came with a new condenser, and points. I have not adjusted the points yet, as i don't have a tool to adjust the dwell just yet, but i do have a feeler gauge. The car was previously running great at about 10* advance. the electrical for the car seems fairly good, all the lights, and signals work as they should.
 
#3 ·
HiJoe,


It takes spark, fuel & air for these cars to run....need to troubleshoot each system to ID the cause......it's usually very simple but, you might need to find an old guy to help you since most the new-gen mechanics don't even know what a carb is.....:grin:
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the reply Beechkid!

I've been trying to find someone nearby who might be able to help but every mechanic i've spoken to has said they don't even touch carbureted cars, not to mention i'd much rather prefer working on the car myself and thoroughly understanding every concept of the vehicle. If you've got any tips or ideas on things i can check or do I would love to try them out. Also now that you spoke of air: if this is any help to finding the issue, the carburetor is new, its about 24*F outside in VA now, and the choke is pretty much nearly closed. The choke is controlled by that black rotating "thing" on the carburetor, which opens up the choke as it warms up. Maybe i need to adjust that? I've honestly got not idea at this point. Thanks for chiming in though, i really appreciate all the help i can get.
 
#5 ·
There are several different carb and dist combinations on the I6, if you did not get the correct ones, then a mismatch will make a bad combination that is not fixable, without replacing the wrong one or both with the correct one. Some do not have mechanical advance in the distributor, but rely on vacuum advance from the carb to advance the timing in the distributor. The choke when it closes (when cold) by pressing the accelerator to the floor before you try to start the engine, makes the fast idle cam hold the throttle open some so it gets more fuel/air mixture for a faster idle, and there is a piston in the choke housing that opens the choke plate about a 1/4" when the engine starts to keep from flooding the engine. The I6's are more finicky than the V8's. Check the choke butterfly to make sure it moves freely (hold the throttle open when checking), if it sticks any clean it with carb cleaner. Also you can mark the timing marks on the harmonic balancer (some I6's the marks are on the flexplate), and put the timing light on it, and crank the engine to see where your timing is. You can set your point gap, by turning the engine by hand while watching the points (ignition key in OFF position) until the points are open the most, then check the gap, in the old days you could use the cover on a book of paper matches. And just because something is new does not mean it is any good, I just installed new points and condensor in my car a month ago, after about 2 weeks, it started getting colder, and my car ran terrible, it didn't want to get above 2,000 rpms and had little power, and didn't want to start on cold mornings, and it ran just like it wasn't getting gas, so I checked the carb and it was squirting gas, I checked the spark from the coil wire to the intake and the spark was weak and intermittent, so I put my old condensor back in, and it started right up. So check it out with a fresh perspective as though nothing is new, so that something is not overlooked. My 2 cts. Good Luck.
 
#6 ·
Post some photos of the carb taken from all sides. Also the old and new distributors with the caps on and off.

Have you tried to start it while moving the dist at the same time?

Have checked really go for a vacuum leak? Nothing open, missing a hose or cap?
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Rex and Driveway. I will have a look at the points gap hopefully today if not tomorrow as it dropping quickly in temperature. I will need a specific tool for the dwell adjustments right? or does the gap only matter? I have a protractor if that helps haha. I will also look to buy a new condenser and points and see if that hopefully resolves the issue. I also checked the butterfly valve and no sticking. Here are a few pictures of my New carburetor and Distributor. The distributor is identical to my previous one in every aspect unfortunately i was dumb and already sent it back for the core fee. The carburetor is a different kind. My old carburetor is also pictured here, it was a motorcraft but from my understanding the 67 mustangs with 200cu were supposed to come with an autolite 1100, and i believe the one on my car now is an 1101 after browsing uremia's official site, (i ordered the carburetor from summit racing and their parts number is URM-7-7154N). I just did some a little bit more research, and i now see that my old carb matches up with the holley carburetor. which is part number URM-7-7341 on summit's site. The reason i changed the carburetor in the first place was because no matter how much i changed the idle mixture screws nothing was easing the rough idle, and also others who has seen the car said the float was too easily moved and the temperature monitor in the carburetor was defective as well. The distributor was super worn and the mechanical/vacuum advances were not working. For vacuum leaks there is one vacuum line and both are screwed into the carburetor/distributor so i don't see how there could be a leak unless there is somewhere else to check. There definitely is a slight exhaust leak as shown by the pictures here. the "thing on the engine" that the manifold screws into has a broken part that doesn't let the screw on one side properly tap in, and where the manifold connects to the exhaust pipe its a bit loose there too. I tried tightening the manifold-exhaust screws but it was too tight. Will try dousing it in WD40 and see if that helps. Also i took a picture of the side to side play of the rotor and wasn't sure if thats normal. Thanks to everyone whose commenting!
 

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#8 ·
the third to last photo shows the place where the screw hole broke. The previous owner said he used some kind marine engine paste i believe marintex was the name and tried to fill the hole around the screw, which is that black crusty stuff. Also i haven't yet tried starting it while moving it as i don't have a second person with me at the moment, but what i did try doing was start it at 0*, wouldnt start so i turned the dizzy a few degrees- tightened it and tried starting it again, and kept repeating the process, but no luck with that.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Here's an article with some more info:
How To Improve Six-Cylinder Performance
The reason, I have shown you this, is because it looks like the original set was a "load-a-matic" , which the carb and distributor both must be for the load-a-matic type to make them work together. Not for the performance aspect. Point gap is .024" - .026" for an I6, you have to turn the engine over by hand until the points are the widest to measure the gap, then adjust them a feeler gauge is fine.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the link rex! I will look into that, maybe the carburetor--distributor combination doesn't work together and if so that would make sense. I still have my old caburetor, ill try and put that on and maybe see if it'll run? even if its rough, atleast that'll tell me if its the carb--dizzy combination.

Thanks for the reply Zaikur, when i pull the throttle linkage (i think thats what its called) it squirts gas into the carburetor, and also I've tried putting little bit of gas and still no start also I've tried a spray of starter fluid and still no start so i don't believe its the fuel.

Here is a quick update on what i've done today, i realized the dizzy cap and spark wires were not optimal for compatibility, the plugs were coming off way too easy and they weren't getting good contact. So i put in new wires, still have spark to them, still sounds super close to starting but even with starter fluid no start. Im going to check the points gap soon and put in a new condenser and see if that helps. as well as possibly bolting my old carb back up. because before it would start with my old carb--dizy but it would run extremely rough. Thanks for all the suggestions and input guys!
 
#14 ·
Hello all, Hope everyone had a good Christmas and New Years. I wanted to do a few updates:
I've taken out the spark plugs, cleaned them, gaped them, put them back in and bought a spark plug tester. I am getting consistent good spark at all my plugs. Fuel I don't have any raw fuel coming out of the exhaust, but I am getting fuel squirting into the carburetor when i pull the accelerator, also i took out the fuel line, cranked the engine and have loads of gas spewing out. And to eliminate fuel being the issue, I've tried spray starter fluid into the carburetor. I did do a compression test on my cold engine and all numbers seem to be in order, on a completely cold engine was getting anywhere between 120-170. (i'm also not entirely convinced that my gauge is sealing properly. After cranking it for a while and doing a second dry test about 2 hours after my first test I got numbers in 160-180 range on all cylinders. The coil was unplugged during these tests. So it seems I've got decent compression, good fuel, and good spark. Which dumbfounds me. I did 100% ensure that my distributor was place in at TDC of the compression stroke, with the rotor pointing at #1 plug on the cap. Here is a link to a video i recorded of what the engine sounds like while cranking:


Thanks for the continued assistance,
Joe.
 
#16 ·
It doesn't sound flooded. Notice how the cranking speeds up when you pump it? I'm leaning towards fuel delivery problems now. Have you tried starting it with ether?

Mine would do this until I replaced the diaphragms on the sides of the carb. I'd have to pump and pump and pump while cranking and it'd eventually catch.

I'd look for leaking fuel on either side of the carb, towards the front of it.

Edit: after re-reading your post at the top of the page I see that you have tried it. Have you tried having someone spray the starting fluid into the carb while you crank? The way it speeds up while pumping definitely seams like that is part of the issue.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
Hey Inline! Have you had any luck? Are you sure you brought #1 cylinder to tdc? Are you absolutely sure the plug wires are correct? Also, with so much cranking and "fueling" you may have a good amount of fuel in your oil, so you'll want to change it very soon after you figure out the issue.
 
#18 ·
Hello all thanks everyone so much for the suggestions. I ended up buying another set of points, a condenser and took the distributor out again and put it back in, and somehow it fired right up. I'm guessing the points and condenser although new were still bad, as a family friend who helped to get it started said my spark was way too weak and inconsistent even though the spark plug tester was lighting up once every second. for each plug. So i got it started and right now it runs like a top, very smooth and no misfires. I just have to adjust the idle speed screws potentially the mixture screws a bit as well. Right now I can start the car on a cold start and i can take my foot off the accelerator and it'll warm itself up then drop the rpms after getting warm. Its sufficient to stay on without stalling but i know they could use some adjusting. I was wondering though, the temperature here in virginia is constantly fluctuating, from high 20's to mid 60's. When it gets cold i recall reading that the mixture screw needs to be put more rich. Do i also need to adjust the idle speed screws when it gets noticeably colder? (i have two one for cold starts and one after the cars warmed up). Do i have to adjust the carb every time the temperature increases and decreases? My fear is that ill stall out driving down the road due to the screws not being set up properly.

Best regards,
Joe.
 
#19 ·
Hello Joe,
Congrats on the great progress.

I am sorry have not written but will tomorrow

To help ease your concern - please let me explain

PLease do not take this post word for word as it is not totally accurate

When they talk about a "cold" idle setting - -the manufacturers are talking
about a motor that has not been running. They are not talking about
the outside temp - -although it does have a little impact.

Just so you know - -once you get the fast idle set and the "curb" or normal
idle speeds set once - -you should be good to go.
On our Mach for example - -I set the carb up about 4 years ago and have not touched it since

Sure there are times when in extreme weather you may have to "tweak" the mixture
and idle speeds -but generally speaking
I want to put you mind to rest

You get the carb set up and you will be fine.
Repeat - once the motor runs on a fast idle with the "choke" it will work no matter
if the temp is 40 or zero

Do NOT be worried - -enjoy your accomplishments and enjoy the ride

I will write Friday or Saturday

Print Dad
 
#20 ·
I've been away from this forum for too long. Not that I'm any kind of Mustang guru, but I, too, have a 200ci and went through the carb and distributor swap. while reading what Joe was going through and trying various things to get the engine to start I kept thinking that it was a major timing issue. Yes as someone previously stated you need fuel and spark to start and run, but you also need timing for that spark. It doesn't need to be precisely timed to start, but it can't be grossly out of time..like 180 degrees out of time if the distributor rotor is aligned with the number one plug when the number one piston is at the top of it's exhaust stroke. If you're just looking at the piston rising in the cylinder you have a 50% chance of it being exhaust instead of the compression stroke it's supposed to be for proper timing. Joe wrote that he felt and heard the compression when he aligned with number one so maybe the distributor was stabbed a good number of degrees off and when re- stabbed was closer to aligning with number one to provide close enough timing to start/run. I'm happy you got your 6 banger running, Joe,
I also went through dealing with a load-o-matic distributor with a non load-o-matic carb when I bought my '66. Surprisingly it did run with the distributor advance connected to the ported vacuum port of the Carter 1 barrel carb, but it ran tons better when I ditched the load-o-matic distributor for a regular vacume and centrifugal weight advance distributor. I hope you stay around, Joe, we need more straight 6 Mustangers in these forums :smile:
 
#21 ·
You didn't indicate how you located TDC. I'd try the old school method. Remove spark plugs and valve cover. Turn the engine with a wrench on the crank/dampener bolt while watching the valves. When #1 valve opens then closes, you are on the compression stroke. Keep turning the engine until the TDC timing mark comes up to the indicator. At this point the rotor should be pointing at #1 spark plug wire on the distributor cap. If not, then your distributor is 180 degrees out of time. It's very easy to misjudge TDC from BTDC.
 
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