Holley Carb on Mach 1 - several questions

Print Dad · 04-01-2009

Hello to all,
I am starting to work on my Mach 1 again now that the spring is coming.
The car is a 1970 with 351C standard tranni. Last year I put a Holley 600 square bore on it.
I started the car but it ran rough due to many problems mostly related to fuel.
I had ancient gas etc. Now I replaced the fuel tank. The problem is the carb became
very heavily gummed up due to the old gas.
I have been soaking the carb and plan to rebuild it very soon. I knew the carb was messed up because nothing was coming from the squirters when i would hit the throttle. I bought a rebuild kit to do the new carb over. My questions are:
1. - After I rebuild this new carb...should I be able to fill the fuel bowls and then see the gas squirt from the shooters when I push throttle. I would like to do this off the cr so I know if the carb has a chance.
2. - The carb linkage appears to be giving me trouble. If I pull the gas pedal linkage forward to hook onto the carb, the gas pedal is very very high in the car. I also have a problem that when I press the pedal all the way down, the carb throttle plate is not fully opened. It is almost as though the cable should be longer to make a fuller pull on the throttle plate.

Should I just dump the carb and get a 650 or a carb that fits the vehicle better.
MOney is pretty tight however.

I just need to get this car back and running or I think my wife will want me to get rid of it after about 35 years of ownership. Basically the car has been in the garage for 22 years. Help......Thanks and sorry for the lengthy post but wanted to give as much info as I could..... Jim

wrenchman · 04-01-2009

Q #1: Yes, on the bench you should be able to pour a small amount of fuel into the bowl (I use a very small funnel inserted into the bowl vent tube) and pump the throttle to observe fuel squirting from the accelerator pump nozzles. Might have to pump the throttle a couple/three times at first to fill the passages, but it'll work.

Q #2: This definitely sounds like a linkage geometry issue. Some Holleys have a few different holes on the throttle lever for different applications. Connecting the linkage to different holes gives more (or less) travel of the lever as compared to pedal movement (does that make sense?). Most throttle control devices (linkage, cable) have some degree of adjustability, but I'm not familiar with the detailed particulars of your throttle linkage setup (a pic might be helpful) so I'm afraid I can't be of much more help in that regard.

Maybe someone else will chime in with further details...

Print Dad · 04-01-2009

[quote=wrenchman;1465533]Q #1: Yes, on the bench you should be able to pour a small amount of fuel into the bowl (I use a very small funnel inserted into the bowl vent tube) and pump the throttle to observe fuel squirting from the accelerator pump nozzles. Might have to pump the throttle a couple/three times at first to fill the passages, but it'll work.

Hello wrenchman,
First thanks for the reply. The first answer helps me a great deal.
The second answer I understand what you are saying but I am a bit confused on how it works.
I will see if I can shoot a pix this weekend. For now...it seems as though the cable hooks in at 2 o'clock if I am standing at the driver fender looking in at carb side.
It would seem as though the carb should hook in at about 9 o'clock to allow for more
pull but this would make the pedal up hitting the dash almost.

I know this has to be something to do with how the linkage is hooked to the carb.
As it sits now, when I step on the gas pedal it pulls the cable towards the firewall.
It pulls back but can't open the throttle plate all the way. The throttle plate opens if I do it by hand but the gas pedal linkage would have to pull down. Hard to explain.
If I pull from 9 to 3...the throttle plate is not fully opened till it would pull to 4:30 ish. This is below horizontal plane. I know this gets confusing but I am hoping the more info I provide the easier it will be to understand the situation.
Once again I thank you so much for your time and help.......Jim

wrenchman · 04-02-2009

I found a pictorial diagram of the factory setup that kinda jogged my memory a bit. Obviously, there is no provision for cable adjustment on this. Something else I found prompts me to ask if this was originally equipped with a 2-barrel carb. Reason for asking, 2v and 4v used a different cable mount bracket at the carb. Looks to me like using the 2v bracket on a 4v application would relocate the cable in such a manner that it would result in reduced cable travel and a high pedal. The mount point of the cable would be moved farther towards the firewall and the cable would have to be pulled out farther to attach at the throttle lever. Just a thought.

I looked at a Holley carb I have here that I've had on a SB Ford at one time. The ball stud (cable attachment point) on the throtte lever is removable and the lever is drilled with a few different holes. Is the ball stud on yours riveted to the lever, or retained with a nut? If it's feasible, moving the ball stud to a location on the lever closer to the throttle shaft would make the shaft rotate farther at a given amount of cable travel. Just another thought.

I'm really wondering, though, if modifying the existing bracket, or obtaining an appropriate bracket to reposition the cable mount closer to the throttle lever would address the problem. Another possibility would be to replace the cable with an aftermarket setup (Lokar makes quite a few different ones, I think) that has a range of adjustibility.

Wish I could be of more help, but maybe you'll find something useful in my ramblings.

Print Dad · 04-02-2009

[quote=wrenchman;1467310]I found a pictorial diagram of the factory setup that kinda jogged my memory a bit. Obviously, there is no provision for cable adjustment on this. Something else I found prompts me to ask if this was originally equipped with a 2-barrel carb. Reason for asking, 2v and 4v used a different cable mount bracket at the carb. Looks to me like using the 2v bracket on a 4v application would relocate the cable in such a manner that it would result in reduced cable travel and a high pedal. The mount point of the cable would be moved farther towards the firewall and the cable would have to be pulled out farther to attach at the throttle lever. Just a thought.

Hello wrenchman,
Right on the head. This car originally had a 2 barrell. The odd part is I have had 3 different 4 barrels on it in the distant past. I plan to look at the linkage set-up this week-end and will post back. My problem is I haven't used the car in about 22 years and as I get old I forget things. I do know that with the other Holley I hadand a autolite 4 barrell there was not much trouble. I understand what you are saying about the ball linkage srud. I think it is peaned in but I have several from my others carbs that are screwed in.
I am justing thinking ahead perhaps. I first gotta be sure the carb works after the rebuild. I wish I had just pulled the gas tank in the beginning when I replaced the carb and fuel pump and filters. If I had i would probably be in great shape.
I may have to replace the lifters but I plan to let the car run several times if I get it going and see. A couple of valves were stuck after sitting but I managed to loosen them and the car sounded pretty good. Then I ran into the problem of no gas squirting in. The old gas was just tooooo bad
I will check this week-end and take a few pixs.
Thanks so much for the ideas and help. You sound like a longtime Ford guy like me. Thanks Thanks Thanks......... Jim

wrenchman · 04-03-2009

I know what you mean about the memory thing. It strikes me as kind of funny at times as to the things that I can and can't remember. I may recall something from 10 years ago with clarity, but couldn't tell you some other detail that happened two days ago! LOL

And, yep, you got me. My Dad was a Ford man so it was only natural that I followed his lead.

Good luck and let me know how it goes!
Roger

The Greek · 04-03-2009

Wow! I feel better. I have the very same memory problem. I'm glad that I'm not the only one. It seems to me that another throttle cable is what you're going to need.