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Old 07-28-2009   #1 (permalink)
Mesomorphman is offline Apprentice


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Default 1969 Mustang Coupe Won't Start After Fuel Pump Replacement

My 1969 Mustang Coupe was running roughly. It would idle fine, but it would sputter and then quit after getting warm and I gave it some throttle. I figured that it may be the fuel pump giving out, so after doing a fuel output test (about 1 ounce with five seconds of cranking) I decided to replace it. I did this, but with the stock-style pump. The pump on there was some sort of aftermarket deal that the previous owner had installed. I finished replacing and tested the fuel output again. Better. About 1.5 ounces per second while cranking. However, the car will now not even start. It will turn over, but it will not fire up. Do you have any idea what the problem may be? Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 07-28-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Did you replace the fuel filter at the same time? it may have pushed junk through the new pump and clogged the filter or needle/seat in the carb.

With the engine off and the air cleaner off, look down the throat of the carb. and crank the throttle lever, you should see a good shot of fuel squirt out the sprayers and down into the intake.

A cheap clear plastic fuel filter (<$5) would let you see if fuel is making it up to the carb. I installed an inline filter before the carb. besides the one that's built into the carb. inlet (have you checked to see if you have a clogged inlet filter?).

When you had the FP off you could have looked into the hole with a bright flash light to see what the FP eccentric looks like (may be worn/cracked and not fully cranking on the FP arm). It looks like a short steel cup but is mounted off center and the FP arm rides on it to make it pump.
These cars are pretty simple, air + spark + fuel = start, look to see that you have all 3.
Jon
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Next to install> stroked 333, AOD, 9" w/3.50:1, PDB.
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Old 07-28-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Could it be possilbe that you reversed the fuel lines on the fuel pump?
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Old 07-28-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Default 1969 Mustang Coupe Won't Start After Fuel Pump Replacement

Hello Mesomorphman and welcome,
The advice given already is great. Follow what they say.

I am thinking if the filter is good and the hoses are correct you may in fact have a spark issue.
If the old pump was pumping, even slow I think it should still be enough to start.

Pull a plug wire, expose the end. Have someone crank the motor while holding the exposed plug wire about 1/4 inch from the exhaust manifold. NOTE - They make a tool for holding the wire but you can use a pair of pliers with insulated handles. You should see the spark jump. If not you have an electrical issue and need to back track.

You could have bad points, condensor, coil, ignition wires etc.

Check as the others suggested to see if you see gas in the carb and that the lines are correct. Then try the spark.

Like Jon stated "These cars are pretty simple, air + spark + fuel = start" This may seem bad but you can fix it, just check a few things and post back. Print Dad
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Old 07-28-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the suggestions and the encouraging words. I'm new to all this, so it does indeed seem frustrating and discouraging to "fix" something only to have it not work at all now, lol. I will check the things you guys suggested and then get back with you. Thanks again.
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Old 07-28-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Sidenote: So I guess the checking for spark thing is a two-person job? No way to do it on my own?
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Old 07-28-2009   #7 (permalink)
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"frustrating and discouraging to "fix" something only to have it not work at all now, lol" > that's how I came up with my slogan at the bottom of my sig....

Yes, normally a 2 person job, need someone to turn the key. You can buy a remote starter - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices
or Sears has a couple ~$15
Actron Start Switch, Remote
They can come in handy for setting timing, bumping over to get TDC, etc. not a bad tool to have. Just don't crank continuously for too long, you'll burn out electrical components eventually like points, starter, etc., if the solenoid or other parts get hot let them cool for 15min.
Jon
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Next to install> stroked 333, AOD, 9" w/3.50:1, PDB.
'09 Black Warriors In Pink with glass roof - the wifes Mustang.
"If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet" -Jon
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Old 07-28-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Mwahahaha. That sig is AWESOME. Thanks for the heads-up on that tool, btw.
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Old 07-28-2009   #9 (permalink)
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So here's the update. I replaced the ignition coil (was old and cracked anyway) and fuel filter, but no dice. It still won't fire. A friend suggested it could be getting too MUCH fuel. Could that be stopping it from firing? I don't smell an overpowering smell of gas when I crank on it, so I didn't figure it was flooding. I'm stumped.
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Old 07-28-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Default 1969 Mustang Coupe Won't Start After Fuel Pump Replacement

Hello Mesomorphman,
Don't get discoraged. You need to isolate. the problem. You don't want to just start replacing things.

First is this a 289 or 6cyl. Is the motor stock and the original carb?
Do you know if it is a 4 barrel that someone put on? Does the motor crank over?

I'm not sure what level your mechanical skills are so you probably need a good book like "Chiltons" or another repair manuel. Also look at a site "MustangsMonthly" for many detailed articles.

Steps i would try.
1. - Check spark at plug as mentioned previous.
2. - If you are getting spark at the plug you should be OK. You could have a weak spark which can be caused by points not set correct.

You need to figure out if there is a spark.

Step 2. - Next we could check the timing. I will look for a link for that.

Now you are pretty sure you have a spark and it is firing at the right time.

You should then open the distributor cap (2 clips on side) and rotate the motor until the points are on a high spot of the distributor cam. The point should be gapped at .017" This is about the thickness of a matchbook cover. How does the cap look underneath? The contacts should be bright an clea, same with the rotor (the end pointer should be clean and kinda shinny.

Once you have the spark and timing we go for fuel issues.

Remove air cleaner. Car not running. Open the choke. Push on the throttle linkage as if you were stepping on the gas pedal. As you do this, do you see any gas squirt in?

If you do then you know the carb is getting gas. If not you need to backtrack by checking the filter, then the pump once more.

To answer your question, yes you should smell gas when it first happens. After that, the plugs stay soaked and you won't smell it.

It is possible you may have to pull a plug and look at it to see if it looks wet. It is possible the car is flooded and can be corrected by replacing plugs, or cranking for a long time. (Not recommended bad for starter circuit)

Another few pointers.
1. - Always use caution when working on the car
2. - use the correct tools (right size etc.)
3. - Never trust a jack if you raise the car. it must be supported with jackstands or other.
4. - When working near fuel use your head and no smoking or ignition sources.

I just don't want to see you start changing everything. It will cost you a fortune.
We can figure out what the problem is and there are so many good people here to help. Try to be patient and do the above steps and post so we can see what's going on. Print Dad
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Old 07-29-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Silly question but did you make sure that the new fuel pumps arm was the same size as the old one removed. Plus did you check the escentic that drive the fuel pump arm. It is on the end of your camshaft. Mine became out-of-round and I had the same problem. Went with a holley red electic, used a block off plate and never had a problem again.
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Old 07-29-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Thank you Print Dad. Thanks for the feel good. I'm going to fully check the spark plugs for spark today. Didn't get a spark last night, but the battery was almost dead. Trickle charging it tonight and giving it another go.

As for turning the engine, how do I go about doing that?
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Old 07-29-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Hi take a jack and lift the car in the back 10cm fromthe floor and then try to start again

per
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Old 07-29-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Good news. I tried cranking it this afternoon after testing the coil and a spark plug. This time, as suggested by a fellow on another forum, I cranked it with WOT to inhibit the flow of fuel in case it was flooding. It fired and started. However, I had to take the ignition coil back to the store as one post had snapped and it was leaking some sort of fluid or lubricant. When I put the new coil on, it was back to the same old thing... it will turn over a few times, make a sound like it wants to start, and then click with a winding down sound. So frustrating. What am I missing?
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Old 07-29-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Default 1969 Mustang Coupe Won't Start After Fuel Pump Replacement

Hello Mesomorphman,
Great news in one respect.

The click with the winding sound could be the starter bendix.
This piece is inside the starter and is basiclaly a gear that slides forward to engage the flywheel.

In the old days we would replace the bendix only.

You may want to consider just putting in a new starter.

Before you do anything, make sure the battery is fully charged and holding
the charge. A low battery will abviously cause a slow crank etc but I don't think it would make the bendix kick back.

You can see the bendix gear if the started is down it is the little gear that sits at the snout of the starter. My guess is gonna need a starter.

It isn't all that hard to replace the bendix but you may be better off with a starter replace.

Look at the bright side however, you know the motor will run. Print Dad
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