anyone know the torque spec on 69 351w rocker arm torque specs.......i just replaced rockers/push rods & hydrolic lifters......will I need to adjust the valves at all....I didnt remove them or touch them. just rockers re & re.
Hello Jason,
Just so you know when you hear people say to adjust valves what they are
in reality saying is that they are adjusting the lash (space) between the rockers and the top of the valve called the valve stem.
Motors with solid lifters require a space that is set using a "feeler gage".
You motor uses hydraulic lifters which mean the lifters (little cylinders) get filled with oil and compensate for adjustment between the rocker and valve stem.
Many motors require zero lash or space and they are adjusted by the use of a torque wrench.
The proper setting for your motor is the rotate the motor till #1 piston is at TDC.
Use the timing mark on the damper to be sure the mark is lined up. When it is lined up, you tighten number 1,4,and 8 intake valves and 1, 3, and 7 exhaust valves.
You will be tightening the rocker arm bolts to 18-20 foot pounds.
Now put a mark on the damper exactly opposite the first mark where you started. This would be 180 degrees across the damper circle. Put a mark there
The last mark you need is 1/2 way between the 2 marks and before the first mark.
This sounds confusing...but if you think of the damper as a clock, the first mark (original #1 TDC is about 10 o'clock....the second mark is about 4 o'clock and the third mark is at about 7 o'clock.
So you have adjusted the valves when the motor is in position A Now rotate the motor until mark B gets to the pointer. When it does, you adjust the following valves. 3 and 7 intake and 2 and 6 exhaust. Tighten the bolts to 18-20 foot pounds.
Now you rotate the motor until point C comes to the timing pointer. This will take 3/4 of a revolution of the damper.
When point C is aligned with the timing mark adjust the following rockers
2, 5, and 6 intake then 4,5,and 8 exhaust.
This is the best way to adjust the rockers.
If you are lost or confused there is another method but it is not as good.
Watch the rockers..... when one of the valves is moving it means the other rocker for that cylinder is seated. So for example...if #1 intake is moving, the #1 exhaust is closed. You could adjust the seated valves using 18-20 foot pounds of torque.
Be advised that this method is not as good because there is a slight moment when
both valves could be staring to move ever so slightly.
The reason it is important to adjust the rockers when they are in the right position is...if the rocker is up on a cam lobe, it will require more force to push the pushrod down into the rocker. This is due to oil pressure and the spring inside the lifter.
I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you. I think i'll attach a picture to give you a better idea of what is required. This comes from a Chilton's book
I would try to do it right once and forget it.... Print Dad
ok, but the machine shop said to just bolt them in and there was no adjustments because it is a hydrolic lifter....and the adjsutment was to be made in the valve settings.......they said no aligning the engine marks or nothing, just bolt in the rockers and torque to 25 pounds......so i did....still sounds like lifter noise slightly in the back rt & LT sides.....\
Hello jagerocks,
The technical answer to your question is no they are wrong. I am sorry to say this but they should know better.
I hope others will help with my reasoning here but......
In a small way they are a little correct, but this is unacceptable to me.
What they are saying is that the rockers don't have a space like solid lifters do.
With the hydraulics, the lifter has room to compensate for play between the rockers and the valve stem.
They are also incorrect in the torque setting. The correct setting is 18-20 foot pounds for you motor. Over tightening the rockers won't have an immediate affect on the lifters but will result in premature wear on the lifters, cam load and even the rockers and valve stems.
Think of it like this:
When the lifter is filled with oil the little plunger inside the lifter is sitting close to the top of the lifter. As the cam turns and the lifter rides onto a high point, the pushrod, rockers and valves are forcing the pushrod down into the lifter. This action keep the play out of the valve assembly.
If the little plunger in the lifter is at the top point, it will take "X amount of pressure to push it in. In your case "X" = 18-20.
Now if the lifter is on a high point (lobe) of the cam, the pushrod has pressed the little plunger down some already. Now you put 18-20 pounds of tourqe but it not doing the same thing because the lifter i in a different position.
Think of it this way:
If you had a glass and filled it with cotton to the top. The you applied 10 pounds of force to a pluger...the cotton would compress a certain amount.
Now you empty the glass, and fill it half way with water, then the rest with cotton. Apply the same force and the cotton compresses less into the cup because of water.
I will try to draw a picture to explain.
It is your motor and you should do whatever you feel is right but trust me on this....The correct way to adjust the rockers is the method I explained.
The second method of watching the valves move and adjust the sister valve will work but is not as good as the first method. I would not torque the rockers to 25.
If you do...remember someday the cam will wear and you will have premature lifter failure.
I am surprised and disappointed the shop would tell you otherwise.
The choice is of course yours. Hopefully others will help explain this better.
Hello Jason,
I am glad you are going to re-torque. Don't over tighten the rockers.
It will cause wear later on. In the beginning you will think everything is fine, but in the long run you will be doing harm.
I am an old dude and not a mechanic by trade but I have wrenched motors for over 40 years.
If you search around on the web you will find directions on how to adjust the rockers while the motor is running. I have used this method but ti could be dangerous and does cause oil to get onto the exhaust manifolds.
Trust me, just do it the way I explained...it will take about 30 minutes and the marks don't have to be perfectly exact.
PLease understand, I mean know disrespect to your mechanical shop. They perhaps don't know the correct way to adjust.
Thanks I'll try it on monday. I can feel it isnt running 100% now, hard starts.....as before it would flash up perfect....I will try it and let you know.
on 351s there is no adjustment. the nuts do torque down. they can be modified to make them adjustable, but from the factory there is NO adjusment. the studs are shouldered.
ok, I couldn't wait till tomorrow, so I did it now.....WELL....really no change, all rockers were tight to settings.... I tell ya there is a rocker noise but I was wondering are the rockers when there closed mine have allot of play in them which I could see that making the noise I hear....maybe its normal play........the other thing that has started since replaceing lifters/rockers/push rods is that after the engine warms up to temp if I shut it off it will ually not restart....it tries to crank over but sounds like the engine is jammed and doesnt want to turn....The starter is new as in 1 week. and was working perfect till rocker/lifter replacement....maybe its relaited or maybe not....If I let the engine cool down to a lower temp (cold) it flashes up perfect.... I must say though it does sound rougher starting now and doesnt idle smooth like it did......should I reset the mixtures and idle???? SO MANY QUESTIONS I"M ASKING AT ONCE, SORRY, just trying to let you know everything.....whats a good starting point on mixture settings? 4 barrel edlebrock carb.
thanks and if anyone wants to give me there # to call I would like that, as typing is allot slower for me and time is lttle short.
Hello Jason,
Print dad gave you great info but allow me to add a few small points. Your post said 351 Windsor right? well windsors have to be adjusted, 351Clevelands in stock form has rockers that are not adjustable.
I never knew about the torque settings by book like described. With new lifters that have nver been used you aling the engine as printdad described but you snug the rocker nut down only to the preload of the lifter and then go an additional 1/2 turn. I dont understand how you can set a torque against a lifter hydraulic lifter plunger. I am supprised you havent ruined the cam but htis is just my train of thought and I am probably wrong so do further resaearch. As far as the engine sounding "tight" your timing may be set too high, what you describe is a typical symptom. the idle can be a carb adjustment. Follow the baseline setting for the carb, crank car and set timing.
there is another "nasty" as heck way to adjust the lifters, remove the valve cover on 1 side and crank the engine, and do each cylinder at at time by loosening and then snug until no noise and then stop move to t enext. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS AND NOT RECCOMENDED AS TEH OIL LEAKS ONTO THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD AND CAN IGNITE CAUSING A FIRE - BAD!!!!
However, jason I ahve done this as a last resort, no fire but the vehicle stinks of burned oil till yoou clean it good. some guys even get an old valve cover and cut out the top to access the adjustment nuts and not leak any oil.
Good luck
Hello All,
First....cindys_sn95, don't get frustrated with all this.
lease trust me people in this situation I know what I am saying.
I have had a 351c in my Mach for 31 years and it has positive stop bolts and a fulcrum. These bolts need to be toruques to specs.
On the Windsor, you have a nut.
Silver69 you have the right idea. Think of the lifter. Now the lifter is sitting flat on the cam. 18-20 foot pounds will force the pushrod "X distance into the lifter. This is to get the lifter in about the canter of it's travel.
If the lifter is up on a cam lobe, when you apply the pressure to the nut, you are forcing against the lifter spring and oil inside the lifter.
I wish I could explain better. That is why the books give you a torque spec for the nut.
If you apply 30 foot pounds of torque for example you could be bottoming out the liifter.
Everyone has their opinion and I respect that but please check a Ford shop manual. Print Dad
the 351 windsor uses a SHOULDERED stud. it is a positive stop. the nut bottoms out on the shoulder. it torques, not adjusts. and btw, 66-72 motors manual says 18-22 ft/lb. and what you are saying about torqueing the nut to get preload makes no sense. sorry...
1969 351w mach1 ...rocker arm torque spec 
