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Classic Mustangs Tech Forum

Technical discussions specific to 1964-1967, 1968-1970, and 1971-1973 Classic Mustang. Discuss all tech related to in-line six cylinder and V8 powered Vintage Mustangs here.

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Unread 10-05-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Tips for finding a 3/4 speed transmission

Hi all
Still working on getting my 65 shipped to me, should be early Nov(whoot!) ....but while I'm waiting, I'm doing some research and looking for any steals as far as parts go.

This leads me to the tranny. My 65 Inline 6 200 was originally a 3 speed but the folks before me at some point swapped it to a automatic. The Clutch pedal assembly is still in there. Beyond the firewall I'm not sure.....

So I have been roaming here and there looking for deals and I found a super clean 3-Speed Toploader for $150. Bargain! I talked to the owner of it and apparently not all 3-speeds are alike. He was doing the same thing and apparently this one didnt fit. 3.03 Transmission - Dantley's Photos | SmugMug

So I guess I'm asking ...what should I be looking for? I would love to have a 3 speed...4 speed even better but would it work? I'm still getting my feet wet with all this but now I'm confused because I was under the wrong impression that for the most part these were pretty easy to swap in and out. Ultimately of course I'm looking at cost as well. while a full t-5 conversion would be nice i wouldn't mind at least getting it back to stock without breaking my bank.

Thanks for any suggestions!
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Unread 10-05-2010   #2 (permalink)
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The six banger is where you'll have problems. While I'm by no means an authority on the 6cyl trannys, the Dagenham 4-speed is the one that comes to mind. Word is that they are pretty fragile ( worse than my old Taurus tranny?). According to my 65 shop manual the 3.03 is the V8 and the 2.77 goes with the 144 or 170 ci engines. Someone here will have some better info for you. Hope this helps.
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Unread 10-06-2010   #3 (permalink)
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Cool, thanks man. I've seen the Dagenham's mentioned before. I remember when I first got the car I wanted to put the manual back in but the Mustang shops at the time (mid 80's) were saying there was a German one that was junk and to keep the auto. Maybe the Dag?

I'm still confused tho about why some 4speed Toploaders may or may not fit. Bolt patterns? I was looking through this article and it seems they used the same one for the 200 and the 289. Maybe thats where my assumptions went askew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Toploader_transmission

Again more curious than anything. I'm probably asking really dumb questions but I figure I gotta start somewhere and will make no excuses for my noobiness Thanks again for the reply!
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Unread 10-07-2010   #4 (permalink)
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The Dag 4 speed is Junk! It is junk behind a 200 and I doubt it would last more than a couple of days behind a stock 289.
The Dagenham was originally designed for small European engines in light cars and it was a big mistake to put it in any American car.
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Unread 10-07-2010   #5 (permalink)
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Aw come on don't sugar coat it Paul. lol Actually I think they put them in the Cortinas. The shift pattern and or linkage would go sideways some times and I would spend 10-15 minutes unjambing it . 1970 Cortina GT with the venerable Kent 4 banger.
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Unread 10-11-2010   #6 (permalink)
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I had a stock non-syncho 3 speed behind my 1966 I6 200 engine years ago and had nothing but problems. I converted it to a 4 speed toploader and have been thrilled ever since. Here is a list of parts you will need:

157 tooth aluminum bellhousing and release fork from 1967 I6 200
157 tooth flywheel
matching clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing and input shaft pilot bearing (presses into flywheel center)
toploader 4 speed and shifter lever

A 1965 4 speed toploader bolted up without a problem.

I just removed all of the above 6 cylinder parts for a V8 conversion and don't need them anymore (minus the 4 speed itself). PM me if you are interested. I will sell everything cheap. I am not looking to get rich but just want them out of my garage and in another mustang.

Good luck!
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Unread 10-11-2010   #7 (permalink)
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You don't have to use a 1965 toploader with this set up. I believe all toploader 4 speeds have the same bolt pattern.

Good luck!
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Unread 10-11-2010   #8 (permalink)
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Great info!! Thanks a bunch. This is just what I was needing to help clear things up. I have been reading so much I think as I learn something new I lose something old haha.

Regards!

Jeremy
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Unread 10-11-2010   #9 (permalink)
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Go to David Kee's Toploader site and get a real education.
Not all Toploaders have the same bolt patterns and there are two fifferent input and output shafts. There are quite a few that will work with your engine but there are also some that won't.
Note: there are also transmissions that are almost identical to a Toploader that are no where near as strong.
You can find the site here: David Kee Toploader Transmissions, Inc.
You can find the "imposters" here: Toploader Imposters
And the application chart here: Toploader ID Chart

I would recommend keeping a copy of this information to anyone looking to buy a Toploader. It can save you a lot of money and you can look up the number to be sure you get what you are buying.
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