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Technical discussions specific to 1964-1967, 1968-1970, and 1971-1973 Classic Mustang. Discuss all tech related to in-line six cylinder and V8 powered Vintage Mustangs here.

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Unread 04-27-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default Wiring new starter, single wire alternator, solenoid - '73 coupe

Calling all electronically knowledgealbe AFM'ers (of which I am not):

This beast is about ready to go, save for wiring it all up. I have a new starter, solenoid and single wire alternator. (Dizzy and coil, too). Trying to marry old technology with new correctly. And have scant little knowledge of auto electronics.

Would someone mind reviewing the diagram I've created and let me know if this would be a correct way to hook up these major, in-the-bay components? And answer the 3 questions I pose.

I plan on buying all new wiring and connectors as well - as soon as I know what I need, and how much of it.

Thnaks for helping out and electronically challenged member!
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Unread 04-27-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Sorry, does not look corect to me. I am not an authourity on the '73 but if its like the earlier mustangs, its not correct.

Let me ask you a couple questions because it has a lot to do with how you wire this new set up.

-Are you using a stock points are using the pertronix ignitor ?
-Does your car have a factory in dash tach ?
- I need to check the starter specs you mention but can you tell me if the starter has a solenoid buitl into it (like a chevy) or is it just a single post for only one cable (wire)
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Unread 04-27-2011   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RF Mustang View Post
Sorry, does not look corect to me. I am not an authourity on the '73 but if its like the earlier mustangs, its not correct.

Let me ask you a couple questions because it has a lot to do with how you wire this new set up.

-Are you using a stock points are using the pertronix ignitor ?
-Does your car have a factory in dash tach ?
- I need to check the starter specs you mention but can you tell me if the starter has a solenoid buitl into it (like a chevy) or is it just a single post for only one cable (wire)
Thank you for taking an interest in my project. The fact that I left out these impt details only underscores my ignorance in this field.

New dizzy is, in fact, from Pertronix. Their Ignitor II or III (don't recall w/out going to garage and checking). And Pertronix's 40,000 (or is it 45,000?) coil. There's a black and red coming from the dist that go to the coil; easy enuf.
Then the coil instrx say to run a wire from (from "+", I believe) off it to "ignition"). So anyway, no more points.

Car does NOT have a factory tach. I have, however, purchased an AutoMeter unit I plan (hope?) to hook up. New speedo too. Along w/ a "three-pack" of 2 1/8" gauges: Oil press, Volts, and Water Temp. I went w/ mechanical w/ all these gauges wherever I could. Again, primarily from the lack of electronic skills.

The Powermaster 9603 starter (see pic) has a large "hump" on it. The desc of it on Summit informs u that "there's an "infinite" number of adjustment positions one can easily make in order to position the solenoid out of the way of the block or headers." (Neat feature!). So, by inference, this hump is a solenoid. While on that subj, the tech guys at Powermaster have advised me to retain and use a good old Ford, fenderwell mounted solenoid. Though they said the voltage regulator can be tossed, since I'm using a Tuff Stuff single wire alt (I believe it was a 7068), also see pic. The starter has a "+" post and a smaller "IGN" post.

Thank you, again.
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Wiring new starter, single wire alternator, solenoid - '73 coupe-9603-starter.jpg  Wiring new starter, single wire alternator, solenoid - '73 coupe-7068-alt.jpg  
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Unread 04-27-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Okay, the fact you have no factory tach is good. It avoids some issues but I should have asked if you have idiot lights for your alternator indicator or do you actually have a guage. Not that makes any difference how we will wire this, its just that going to a single wire alternator may render your alternator "idiot light" useless.

Let me make you up a diagram and provide you with some explanations on how and why its to be wired.

The pertronix is a good thing, however, they like a good 12 volts to operate them and your car is fitted with a pin resistor wire that makes it way to the coil. Becuase this resistance wire drops your voltage, the pertronix usesly does not get enough voltage to run properly.

I send another reply later this evening
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Unread 04-27-2011   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RF Mustang View Post
Okay, the fact you have no factory tach is good. It avoids some issues but I should have asked if you have idiot lights for your alternator indicator or do you actually have a guage. Not that makes any difference how we will wire this, its just that going to a single wire alternator may render your alternator "idiot light" useless.

... your car is fitted with a pin resistor wire that makes it way to the coil. Becuase this resistance wire drops your voltage, the pertronix usesly does not get enough voltage to run properly.
Thanks again. I'll look forward to it! Regarding stock items like idiot lights and original wiring, this car is in no way being attempted to look or be stock. All the original gauges and the thin, flimsy circuit "board" that connected them all have been set aside in a bag. All new 5" AutoMeter gauges have been fitted (took a little doing) in the console. Which is on the bench at this point. I'm assuming I'll be needing to run new wires from all of these to wherever they need to go. That is, there will be 5-10lbs of old, stock wiring under this dash going nowhere. (Car originally had a/c; long ago removed by a prev ownr. The harness coming out of the firewall is a monstrosity, likely including alot of a/c wires (?)). Just laying on the windshield for months. Not optimistic or planning on really using any of it.

(This eng was removed from the bay and worked on (and off) for months. Now it's back in, and completely "unwired" if there's such a term. New electrical major components (and gauges), all unwired; not hooked up. At all. That bit of background may be useful to help understand the "state it's in now)

So idiot lights are gone (in a sack, over in the corner). A new Volt meter going in (with help! lol). If resistance wire is a bad thing w/ this modern technology (w/ regards to the Pertronix dizzy and coil), then I won't use any. (Is it that simple?) That is, there are NO wires going to the coil at the moment, "pin resistor" or otherwise. Or anywhere else for that matter. Something I hope to change any day now...

I've read on some audio-oriented sites that zero gauge wire is an "upgrade" where the alt, batt, solenoid and grounds are concerned. I can go that route; no wire purchased yet.

We've a new stereo in, w/ an amp in the trunk. Nothing crazy; 250W as I recall. One of the reasons we replaced the old alt w/ a 100amp one. Again, nothing really huge here.

At some point want to upgrade the headlights...again, new beefier wire I'm sure. Perhaps even a new fuse box. I'm ok w/ new and tossing all the old; just lacking in the knowledge dept.

Bottom line, just want to wire her up correctly, w/ plenty of beefy enuf wires, breakers, etc to be solid. But the old tech and diagrams from '73 don't exactly match w/ what I've got now w/ modern tech. So am seeking some experienced, electrical guidance. Some of it very basic, like, "what wire goes where?" "What shud the gauge be?" "Should a breaker, fuse be in between?"... hence my diagram in the original post from what I thought I've learned over the past couple of weeks. But, it sounds like, am still confused on.

Again, thank you.
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Unread 04-27-2011   #6 (permalink)
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This distributor,

PerTronix D130700 - PerTronix Flame-Thrower Plug and Play Billet Distributors with Ignitor II® Module - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and this coil,

PerTronix 45001 - PerTronix Flame-Thrower II Ignition Coils - Overview - SummitRacing.com
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Unread 04-27-2011   #7 (permalink)
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First of all, I type "fat finger" alot and therefore som eletters may get left out or misplaced. Example. I said "pin resistor wire" It should have read "pink resistor wire". So please keep this in mind. Unlike the luxury of microsfot word which has auto grammer and spelling correcting, this site does not have such a thing.

Be careful what you decide to "$hitcan" and not use as you may need it later. Things like your horn, turn signals, head lights need, etc. need connecting and operable.

regarding your engine.
Attached is a diagram for a 68 mustang. Many of the "basic connections" are identical as for your 73. lets start with the following explanation

Alternator: when the original alternator was removed. it had a harness attached that ended in a 3-position connector much like the one (14305 assy) shown on the diagram. Unplug it here and leave the rest of the harness and regulator. To connector your new single wire alternator, make your connection at the positive side of the battery terminal or (as I suggest) at the positive side of the solenoid where the battery cable connects (far left side of solenoid) Thats it !

Solenoid / Starter: Run a heavy gauge cable (you can buy at auto parts store) from the far right side of the solenoid to the starter just as shown on the diagram. The starter you selected has a built in solenoid which means unless the solenoid on the starter is engaged, the starter is not going to work. Check to see how the manufacturer suggest to bypass this. Me personally, I would run a 16 gauge wire jumper from the post on the starter marked IGN to the large post where you connect the main cable. This way when power is sent to the starter from the solenoid near the battery, it can also power the solenoid on the starter.

Your small left post on the solenoid (near the battery) has a wire (32) that runs from the ignition switch, through the neutral safety switch and to the solenoid. This is what engages the starter when the key is turned to the "start position" . The other wire on the solenoid (262) is fed by the "pink resistor wire" (16A) from the ignition switch which also feeds the wire (16) at the connector 14401 that feeds the + side of the coil.

Distributor: (your pertronix ignitor) connect the black wire to the negative side of the coil. The red needs to be fed by the same circuit as feed by the pink resistor wire, you can splice over top of the picnk wire as I do not recommend you cut it out. Once you.ve cut the pink resistor wire, theres no going back without installing an external resistor should you go bakc to stock points. The red wire has to be fed by the same circuit that supplies voltage when the key is in the "on" position AND the "start position"


One last thing. Make sure you run a heavy gauge ground cable from the engine block to the chassis. There is boss with a 3/8-16 tapped hole on the front of the block below the head on the passenger side just behind the alternator. I also suggest a 16 gauge ground strap from thw fire wall to the back of the engine block. Many times people forget that lack of proper grounding prevents circuits from being completed.

Hope this helps.
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Wiring new starter, single wire alternator, solenoid - '73 coupe-1968-ford-mustang-igntion-starting-charging-wiring.jpg  
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Unread 04-28-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Wow. Thanks for all the info! Do you know where that diagram came from? Wondering if I could find that equivalent for my '73. Haven't seen that one before.

OK, so I had a big mistake w/ the wire to the "+" starter post coming from the "+" solenoid post. Comes from the other side of the solenoid. OK. Well, that answers what to do w/ that solenoid post.

And some other goofs as well. I've redrawn my diagram, below as best as I interpreted your directions. Does this look correct now?

And I'll check w/ Powermaster re jumping their two posts together on the starter. Seems odd, but maybe it's just because it's a Ford w/ its own solenoid (?).

I'll have to peel back the covering on the harnesses coming out of the firewall and track down that pink wire. Sounds like it's already coming from the neutral A/T safety switch. So I guess I tap into it rather than try to learn about neutral safety switches. Or, I suppose, just go to the "+" side of the coil where it terminates; meet up with it there.

And yes, I plan to ground this every which way but loose; thanks for the reminder!

So far, I haven't $hitcanned any stock wiring. It's all laying there, on the windshield, or the ground hanging by one wire (the old solenoid and 3-connection alt wires spiders web). Like I mentioned, once everything works, I plan to tuck away all the rest. Just haul that copper around with me.

Thanks again! This will be helpful as I slog thru this.
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Unread 04-28-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Yes, your "revised" diagram looks correct. Here is a website that will get you all kinds of diagrams and information for mustangs.

Home - Mustang tech and info links

also try 1966 Mustang Wiring Diagram | Ford Mustang Enthusiasts

scroll to the bottom and select the 1968 section.


The reason you will need to make a jumper on your starter to run from the small terminal to the large terminal is becuase the solenoid on the starter will need to be engaged or powered in order to "pass" the voltage "delivered" by the large cable to the starter in order to power the starter internally. If you connected 12 volts directly to the large terminal, its most likely not going to complete the circuit unless the solenoid is powered or engaged. Think of a solenoid as nothing more than a relay or a switch. The only difference is a singal is used to energize a coil to activaqte the switch.

If you dont wont to run a jumper, you can run a spearate 18 gauge wire from the factory solenoid down to the small terminal on the starter. I jsut did'nt see the point for adding another separate wire.
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Unread 04-28-2011   #10 (permalink)
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Thank you again! I'm a visual learner, so I'm glad my 2nd diagram -poor as it came out w/ my use of MS Word for the first time attempting to draw something like this - was a correct interpretation of your narrative.

One last question if I might, as it relates to hooking up these major components. In an earlier thread of mine about things electric, a helpful AFM'er tossed in this tidbit, kinda out of left field at the time:

"...Make sure you put a resettable breaker between the alternator and the battery. I have a 160A alternator and put a 150A resettable breaker in. Works like a charm."

From what I'm learning, a fuse, or breaker is designed to protect the wiring it's a part of. (So I'd be protecting a foot long piece of lg gauge cable?)

Anyway, shall I procede with inserting a resettable breaker between the alt and "+" side of the solenoid? Not asking if it's critical; just would it be a really good idea? And w/ my 100amp alt, would the breaker want to be just under that. Like 90 or so?

Thanks again. You've been extremely helpful!
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Unread 04-28-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Yes, installing a breaker between the wire from the alternator and the + side of the solenoid is a good idea. Its not so much to protect the wire as it is to protct everyhting else in the event some draws an excesive amount of current. Especially since you are installing an amplifier.
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Oooops, looks like the Battery somehow moved on the revised Word diagram. Here it is w/ that mystery fixed for future posterity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RF Mustang View Post
Yes, installing a breaker between the wire from the alternator and the + side of the solenoid is a good idea. Its not so much to protect the wire as it is to protct everyhting else in the event some draws an excesive amount of current. Especially since you are installing an amplifier.
Thanks so much! What a great resource AFM, and knowledgeable, patient contributors like you are to simple wrench turners!
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