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Classic Mustangs Tech Forum

Technical discussions specific to 1964-1967, 1968-1970, and 1971-1973 Classic Mustang. Discuss all tech related to in-line six cylinder and V8 powered Vintage Mustangs here.

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Unread 03-10-2012   #1 (permalink)
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Default Hipo manifolds vs headers, how much power loss?

I've been looking all over trying to get some quantifiable numbers on how much power I'd be losing using the hipo ex. manifolds vs tri Y headers. I'm running GT40p heads, so headers aren't cheap, but I'm also thinking it would be cool to have the engine look like a hipo "K" motor. Mustangs Plus has the hipo manifolds on sale for $250, and I'm tempted.
Here's my basic motor set up so far:

Edy 1405 600 cfm carb.
Weiand Stealth intake, port matched to heads
Gt40"P" heads
shooting for 10:1 compression
Comp cam, .480 lift 260 duration (206/206 @.5) roller cam
roller rockers
2.5" exhaust out rear valance (still refining)
T5 tranny

She's a weekend driver, losing a real small amount of power won't kill me...and not having to deal with header issues would be a plus (wife would probably like the quieter sound). But, if it would be a significant impact in your opinion, would love to know!
Thanks in advance!
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Unread 03-10-2012   #2 (permalink)
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I'm sure there will be some impact, but that it's an impact you'll noticeably feel I would doubt it.
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Unread 03-10-2012   #3 (permalink)
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Hello. The difference is not that striking. The K codes were rated at 271hp, Shelby swapped out the the exhaust manifolds and the intake, which bumped the GT-350s up to a rating of 306 hp, and, I can't help but think that a lot of that increase was because of the intake. That cast iron 4bbl intake that Ford used was not very good. It would be difficult to design one that was less efficient and still worked, while, the S1MS that Shelby used was an aluminum intake that is virtually identical to an Edelbrock Performer.
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Unread 03-10-2012   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks, I've been thinking the same thing. And why spend an extra $250 for something I won't really feel...And the Hipo manifolds maintain a factory look in there. They look pretty free flowing, while yah, the regular manifolds look like they belong on a model T.
Thanks Veronica and Ken..

I've been told the Hipo manifold works well with the GT40"P" heads...anyone with experience pulling plugs with that combo? Any links to dyno results with/without Hipo manifolds? I can't find anything...
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Unread 03-10-2012   #5 (permalink)
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I really don't think there would be any power loss at all below 4k. I don't push my '65 that hard very often, so I leave my Model T manifolds alone and enjoy the cooler underhood temps and ease of maintenance.
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Unread 03-10-2012   #6 (permalink)
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You'd be looking at an 8-10% loss over a good set of headers. Tri-y's aren't always the answer.
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Unread 03-10-2012   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joes72/65 View Post
I leave my Model T manifolds alone and enjoy the cooler underhood temps and ease of maintenance.
Original Stock (cast-iron) exhaust manifolds, keep under hood temperatures higher then a good set of quality Headers.

Ceramic coated headers keep the engine bay temperatures cooler and act as an insulator for the headers keeping the exhaust air hot and moving faster, less heat escaping the header vs stock manifolds.

I recommend Doug's Tri-Y Headers over the cheap china made garbage, the primaries are larger, quality is better all around, cost is more expensive..
Dougs = 1-5/8" primaries into 2" into 2.5" collectors
China Made Tri-Y = 1-1/2" primaries into 1-3/4" into 2.5" collectors

The difference is note-worthy, through-out the RPM range, you'll get enhanced torque & hp, a better flowing exhaust, better mpg, and a cooler running engine.
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Unread 03-10-2012   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgard07 View Post
You'd be looking at an 8-10% loss over a good set of headers. Tri-y's aren't always the answer.
That much? I'd think that would be very noticeable. I'm guessing my power is around 300 h.p., so we're talking 24- 30 h.p.????
Of course, that'd be at the very top of the RPM range, a place I'll frankly hardly be. Still, that's a lot of sacrifice considering what I've spent to be where I'm already at..

Are shorties that much better than the Hipo's?
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Unread 03-11-2012   #9 (permalink)
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Honestly you will. Those tri-y headers have small primaries and were designed for low end torq. You WILL notice the difference and let me tell you, when you go down in performance you will NOT be happy. I didn't see what short block you have. 289 or 302? Btw, sometimes tri-y's ARE the answer. There is a reason why they have been copied a million times by just about everyone out there. You said 1405 carb. Isnt it 1406? I think 1405 is a 500cfm right? Idk I'm not sure. Anyway. Shelby gained 35hp over the standard k-code motor by adding tri-y headers, dual plain high rise alumn intake, 715cfm carb and a 7.5 qrt oil pan. Not that that has anything to do with it. It in theory the more oil in the pan the cooler it is and the cooler the oil the cooler the engine, allowing the engine run better and stay closer to operating temps.
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Unread 03-11-2012   #10 (permalink)
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I too have been trying to build my own hipo/shelby so ive got penty of info. The best is an artical i found in my MM subscription. Heres the link....

1965 Hi-Po Engine vs. Shelby 289 Short-Block - Mustang Monthly
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Unread 03-11-2012   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks Dan!
To answer your questions...oops, yes, it's a 302 bottom end, 40 over. And the 1405 Eddy is the manual choke version of the 600 cfm 1406.

From all my research, the best perfomers do appear to be running the tr-y's, at least for the street. Hard for me to argue with years of experience and dyno results.

Seams to me the Shelby addition of the intake and headers where the biggest power changers...the combo of both no doubt really did it, but assigning the power gain of just the headers would be tough. Especially, as Veronica stated, with how poor the original 4V intake was.
Thanks for the link Dan, will check that out now...
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Unread 03-11-2012   #12 (permalink)
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So if you just want a street car why did you do a 1.75" UCA drop?
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Unread 03-11-2012   #13 (permalink)
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That was a good article, realized I already read it (must be getting old). Nice to know they got 303 hp with lesser heads and a flat tappet cam, I should be above that somewhere with the GT40p's and the full roller setup.

I have a list of headers that supposedly work on the GT40p's, but I'm betting there's more that would work with short plugs. I look at pictures of some of them that supposedly don't fit, but the primaries look like they'd clear the straight out plugs on my heads..I might start calling the manufacturers and ask if they've tried..
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Unread 03-11-2012   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
So if you just want a street car why did you do a 1.75" UCA drop?
Hi Ken,
I did a lot of research on that. The 1.75" drop actually yields the best camber curve, for street OR track. While the static adjustment differs for both, it's the curve that you want to maintain the tire patch. Only reason the 1" drop is so popular is because people don't want to buy/do the negative wedge for the upper ball joint. I was able to fabricate my own.
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