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Technical discussions specific to 1964-1967, 1968-1970, and 1971-1973 Classic Mustang. Discuss all tech related to in-line six cylinder and V8 powered Vintage Mustangs here.

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Unread 08-29-2012   #1 (permalink)
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Question 1965 Mustang 5.0 EFI conversion

Hey everyone - I'm a long-time member of the forums but have not been on here in a good long time. I am just finished with college, found a job and I finally have the funds to begin working on my 1965 200ci mustang coupe automatic. I've had this car since 2005 and all I have done to it is install a new carpet.

The car is about 90% perfect - interior is great, body is completely solid (it looks like it may have taken a slight bump to the rear at some point). Only complaints is that the car was painted in a garage (5 footer) and there is some rust in the footwell area of the floorpan (a few pin-sized holes that I patched with bondo - i know its not the right way, just didnt have the funds!)

After driving the car a few times I decided that I really need more power. The 200ci motor has some low end grunt but thats about it - worst of all it sounds like a tractor.

My plan is to convert this car over to a 1987-1993 5.0 HO with a T-5 tremec. I want the car to be streetable, reliable and also have the ability to do some autocrossing/ track days. This means suspension and brakes are going to be as important as the powertrain.

After doing some research on the internet and pricing out the setup that I liked it came to almost 15,000. I know that I have to replace basically all of the suspension components and brakes but DAMN!!

So this got me thinking, since I need an Engine complete with harness and ECU, transmission/bellhousing/clutch, rear end, 5 lug wheels and tires, driveshaft etc. why not just buy a 87-93 mustang that is in decent shape??

I was able to find a few cars (including a 1989 saleen with a built 347, Powerdyne and built T5 with reciepts: Price Reduced 1988 Saleen Mustang) for under 6k that were decent. That way I know the engine runs, trans works etc - that way I dont build the car, turn the key and end up with a turd. I could then have a roller that I could sell or trade for more parts.

Has anyone gone this route? Are there any other parts from the fox car that I could salvage (brakes? the saleen has 4 wheel discs and 5 lug spindles)? I'm trying to figure out if this is a viable option. I want to do this as inexpensively as possible without cutting any corners - i plan to do all the work myself except any welding.

Sorry i'm so long winded - just wanted to be sure I asked questions that will result in good answers!

Cheers
RJ
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1965 Mustang 5.0 EFI conversion-l.jpg  1965 Mustang 5.0 EFI conversion-2.jpg  1965 Mustang 5.0 EFI conversion-82_509222726978_7116_n.jpg  
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Unread 08-29-2012   #2 (permalink)
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Also - before someone beats me to it - I am aware that the suspension on the fox cars wont work with my 65. I am planning on running:

TCI 3 link:

1965 66 67 68 69 70 FORD MUSTANG TCI TORQUE ARM 3 LINK REAR SUSPENSION, BOLT-ON! | eBay

Control Freak Front coilovers:

1965-70 Ford Mustang Coil Over Front Suspension Kit | eBay

I really want the adjustability offered by these kits. I'm open to other ideas though, the archaic suspension setup that is on these cars worries me - I'd like to replace whatever I can afford to replace if possible.

I've looked at the mustang II style front suspension as well but I dont really want to have to deal with taking the car to a fab shop (unless somone convinces me this is the only way to go, I'd like to use a less invasive method).

Thanks again!
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Unread 08-30-2012   #3 (permalink)
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I have no idea about the suspension and a T-5, but you can do the EFI install easily, and an AOD no problem. $15k? No way.
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Unread 08-30-2012   #4 (permalink)
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I was at 15k all told with a 306 crate motor (long block) with AFR 185 heads, world class T5 (plus clutch, bellhousing, flywheel and MT pedal box), new ford 9" rear with an LSD, 2003/04 cobra brake setup & 5 lug conversion for the front, coilovers all around. Then you have to add in all the EFI goodies plus wheels and tires. Do the math - its expensive (not being realistic with a budget is the best way to end up with a paperweight in your garage).

And why would I want an AOD (gross) if I am trying to autocross? makes no sense. Plenty of people have had success fitting everything from a T5 to a T56 in the tunnel with minor modifications. This is not going to be a hack-job, and I want the car to handle well above all else.

Regardless this doesnt answer my question which in a nutshell was:

What other parts from a fox platform are compatible with a first gen and has anyone bought a fox with the intention of using as many parts as possible for an EFI 5.0 swap?
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Unread 09-09-2012   #5 (permalink)
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bump. no ideas??
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Unread 09-09-2012   #6 (permalink)
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Welcome to the EFI conversion club!

I don't think there is much beyond the actual drive train that you could use from a Fox...

You can retain the FOX accessories on the front: serpentine belt and reverse-rotation water pump, but will need either a modified radiator or a crossover tube to get the lower radiator hose to the correct side of the engine. You will need to remove the Fox oil pan, oil pickup tube, and dipstick - replacing them with the classic versions. You can drill a hole in the FOX alternator bracket to thread the classic dipstick tube so it comes out right behind the alternator. (Consider using a 3G Alternator from an SN-95 Mustang though.)

The classic radiator, even with the 3-row version is not too efficient, but with a good electric fan kit it does pretty well!

Use the 86-93 Bell housing and either a cable clutch conversion kit or a hydraulic kit.

There are LOTS of ways to put good brakes on the car, but I've not hears of anyone using brakes from a Fox...
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Unread 09-09-2012   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grivlet View Post
Hey everyone - I'm a long-time member of the forums but have not been on here in a good long time. I am just finished with college, found a job and I finally have the funds to begin working on my 1965 200ci mustang coupe automatic. I've had this car since 2005 and all I have done to it is install a new carpet.

The car is about 90% perfect - interior is great, body is completely solid (it looks like it may have taken a slight bump to the rear at some point). Only complaints is that the car was painted in a garage (5 footer) and there is some rust in the footwell area of the floorpan (a few pin-sized holes that I patched with bondo - i know its not the right way, just didnt have the funds!)

After driving the car a few times I decided that I really need more power. The 200ci motor has some low end grunt but thats about it - worst of all it sounds like a tractor.

My plan is to convert this car over to a 1987-1993 5.0 HO with a T-5 tremec. I want the car to be streetable, reliable and also have the ability to do some autocrossing/ track days. This means suspension and brakes are going to be as important as the powertrain.

After doing some research on the internet and pricing out the setup that I liked it came to almost 15,000. I know that I have to replace basically all of the suspension components and brakes but DAMN!!

So this got me thinking, since I need an Engine complete with harness and ECU, transmission/bellhousing/clutch, rear end, 5 lug wheels and tires, driveshaft etc. why not just buy a 87-93 mustang that is in decent shape??

I was able to find a few cars (including a 1989 saleen with a built 347, Powerdyne and built T5 with reciepts: Price Reduced 1988 Saleen Mustang) for under 6k that were decent. That way I know the engine runs, trans works etc - that way I dont build the car, turn the key and end up with a turd. I could then have a roller that I could sell or trade for more parts.

Has anyone gone this route? Are there any other parts from the fox car that I could salvage (brakes? the saleen has 4 wheel discs and 5 lug spindles)? I'm trying to figure out if this is a viable option. I want to do this as inexpensively as possible without cutting any corners - i plan to do all the work myself except any welding.

Sorry i'm so long winded - just wanted to be sure I asked questions that will result in good answers!

Cheers
RJ
Go to www.midnightdsign.com this guy has it all spelled out what needs to be done for EFI. You will be impressed with what you see here.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone
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Unread 09-09-2012   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Scibo View Post
Go to www.midnightdsign.com this guy has it all spelled out what needs to be done for EFI. You will be impressed with what you see here.
Try: http://midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/EF...-%20Wiring.htm
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Unread 09-09-2012   #9 (permalink)
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That is a great site to cover the wiring details.

I ordered a complete wiring harness kit years ago from Windsor-Fox in California. Unfortunately, they are no longer in business.

This is how mine came out:
My wires are in a plastic wire loom and tied to the two chrome braces above the engine.
I have converted to an electric fan and a 3G alternator since this picture was taken.
Also, that plugged vacuum hose visible top-right of the upper intake now connects to my "mini" power brake booster...

I used the modern power steering pump to drive my classic power steering system and have not yet hooked up the A/C, but have everything I need to finish it except for a couple of custom hoses.

You will love your conversion once you get it all finished. the car runs "sweet" and is quite reliable. No more "points" or Carburetor adjustments!

Best of luck on your project
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Unread 09-11-2012   #10 (permalink)
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I invite anyone who does this conversion to also relocate the TFI module to the firewall in a heatsink as ford did in the later cars(tbirds,cougars and rangers) as the tfi modules overheat and cause the car to stumble and die out. Acts like fuel pump or coil but it is almost always the module.(cars would die out in traffic and cause accidents - but ford kept things off the media)
we used RJM engineering for our harnesses - they were perfect.
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Unread 09-12-2012   #11 (permalink)
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Not too familiar with EFI conversions outside of seeing a few at car shows, but I've done the rear end conversion on my 66 and love it. Here's why: factory posi, cheap and plentiful replaceable parts and gearset options, very easy conversion to do, and a little wider stance that lets you use wider rear wheels (and looks good too). It's a simple matter of cutting off the suspension mounts, measuring location and pinion angle before welding on new spring perches for leaf springs (unless you've got other plans for rear suspension). You could do disc brakes on the back, but the factory drums are fine I think. Nearly everything will fit, though you may need to consider the driveshaft length on the 8.8 rear end to be sure you're not too close (esp. if you're doing a T5 conversion).

My 66 started as an i6 too, and normally I'd agree with everyone who says "start with a V8" instead of converting because it was a pain in the ass. But my car was dirt cheap and gave me room to play, and yours is too nice of a starting point to give up to start with a different car.

You sound like you're in the right direction, but, IMO, 15k is pretty high. I've got about that much in it including the car at the end of the conversion, which included a blueprinted 347 with a new, Modern Driveline T5z conversion kit with a hydro clutch setup and full kevlar clutch, as well as a new interior, new factory fuel tank and 3/8 lines, new complete wiring kit, audio system, refurbished factory suspension and front disc upgrade with a beefy custom booster.

I'm looking at some nice suspension upgrades myself and have the same intentions as you do for your car, but I would say- try out that factory suspension before going for those modification kits. I think a nice set of tubular upper and lower control arms, roller spring perches, 1" front sway bar, export brace, maybe a monte carlo bar and rear sway bar and traction bars would make your car amazing. A coilover or Mustang II kit would be cool, modern, but worth it? I don't think so. There's vintage racers that swear by the old school suspension design and could probably still beat fancy modernized cars, only because they know how to drive their cars better. Just my opinion, and food for thought.

Last edited by thedrummer021; 09-12-2012 at 01:02 AM. Reason: correction
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