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Old 05-10-2005   #1 (permalink)
NinjaMobile is offline Apprentice

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Default Engine Running Rough

As posted previously, I have a 1966 Mustang Coupe with a 302 out of a 68 or 69 in it. It has a Holley 4bbl carb, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 4v heads, Pertronix Ignitor, custom headers and dual exhausts with Flowmasters. According to the previous owner (who I have no reason to believe is lying to me), the 302 has only been in there for about 10k miles.

When I got the car, it was running painfully rich (most noticeably at idle, though it may be that way across the board, given that it still gets only 10mpg). The obvious sign of which was the great big black spots that the car would leave on the driveway if left idling for any length of time. Also, the idle speed was cranked way up.

When I rectified these things (and a problem with the timing which seems to have ocurred some time after I bought it, though I do not know how), the engine started to run rough. There's a chugging sound in the exhaust which may simply be due to the dual exhaust. (This is the first time I've owned a car with a dual exhaust.) In drive, at a stop, the engine will cause the car to shake with a definite period. In neutral or park, the idle is faster, so the rough running is less noticeable. At higher RPMs, when I am in a tunnel or another situation where I can distinctly hear the sound of the engine in motion, I can still hear an obvious "void" in the engine sound - it sounds like a fast puttering rather than a smooth roar.

I've pulled the plug wires for each cylinder one by one (shocking myself no less than four times ) and I could not detect any cylinder which was not firing. I've yet to complete my tuning of the carbeurator - I still need to finish adjusting the idle jets and I need to check the float levels.

My dad says it's valves - which seems odd to me, given how few miles the engine has on it, but I suppose it is possible, given how utterly sooty the car was running when I got it. He recommended that I finish tuning the carb and take the car for a 4-5 hour road trip to clean up the valves.

Now, my dad's been working on cars since he was in high school, so I usually don't question his wisdom on these subjects. I still want to solicit some more opinions, though. Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 05-10-2005   #2 (permalink)
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If it was valves you should have noticed which cylinder when you were pulling the wires. Is the Holley carb you have a vaccum secondary? Does the engine have a performance cam?

The reason I ask is that there is a power valve in the vaccum secondary carbs that enrichens the mixture at low manifold pressure. If the cam is a performance type the manifold pressure will be lower than stock causing it to let more fuel in even at idle. A #65 valve is stock. You may need a #55 or #45 available at your local speed shop.

On the older Holley's a backfire could also damage the power valve.
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Old 05-10-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Well... If it's all the valves equally clogged with crap... *shrug* I don't know enough about the symptoms of valve problems to identify them...

The Holley carb does have vacuum secondaries. I do not, however, have a performance cam... At least, not to my knowledge. I'll have to ask the previous owner... I know it has a 351 cam in it to change the firing order since the 302's firing order was wacko... (Assumably they also put in the requisite crank to go with this...) How would I tell which cam it has in it if the previous owner doesn't know?

Now that you mention it, the previous owner did mention something about the power valve and backfires... It was backfiring before I fixed the timing... Could the symptoms I have described be attributable to a dead power valve?
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Old 05-10-2005   #4 (permalink)
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Bad power valve will make the idle so rich it will run best with the mixture screws all the way in.
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Old 05-11-2005   #5 (permalink)
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Hi. I would start by rebuilding the carb. That's a good candidate for what's happening. When you set the timing what did you put it at? Have you checked the timing since then? I had a bad harmonic balancer that was spun and it caused my timing to be way off right after setting it correctly, making the engine run like crap.
When I bought my 68' Coupe it already had a 302 in it. So when you aren't part of building the engine for your car, its kinda hard to determine what is actually inside it, unless you rip it apart
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Old 05-11-2005   #6 (permalink)
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*GHURK*

Well, guess I'd better take a look at that power valve, then...

Yeah, I guess I could rebuild the carb. Not keen on it, though. I know I need a special tool to take part of it apart. (Thanks, Holley. Thanks a big fat lot.) The carb, unless I'm mistaken, went in with the engine, so I don't think it needs to be completely rebuilt. Retuned? Oh, hell yeah. I'm fairly convinced that the people who installed this engine setup for the previous owner were trained chimpanzees. Without the training. I'll keep that in mind, though.

I set the timing to 6 degress BTDC, which is as it should be according to the manual and according to the previous owner. It was at 12 degrees BTDC. I have no clue how it got there, unless the hold-down bolt slipped or I bumped it really fricking hard somehow... I've checked it since then - just last weekend, in point of fact. It hadn't moved a hair.

Hm. I'll have to look through the receipts that the previous owner gave to me and see if I can figure out which cam he had put in there... I could call him too, but I'd rather see if I can figure it out for myself. I do thank my lucky stars that the previous owner has been more than willing to help me figure things out about this car...
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Old 05-31-2005   #7 (permalink)
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UPDATE:

Looks like it was the idle jets. Re-tuned them this weekend. Now it's purring like a kitten.

Thanks guys!
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Ninjamobile
AKA The Mad Chauffeur
1966 Mustang Deluxe Coupe (302 V8, 4bbl Holley Carb, Edelbrock intake, custom headers, dual exhaust with Flowmasters and GT valance)
1981 Mercury Grand Marquis - AKA War, Big Red, Bessie the War Cow
2003 Dodge Stratus R/T Sedan - AKA The Ninjamobile.
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