Stay with Windsor or go 400 modified engine in my 1967 Mustang?
Currently, I have a '67 mustang with a 351 windsor out of a '77 t-bird. Obviously, that wasn't a good year for the windsor, and even with a full msd ignition, dominator intake, and hooker headers, the power is still not there. Right now it is mated to a toploader and a 9" rear end with posi and 3.73 gearing..
I just went digging in my barn and found I have a 1970 windsor motor with heads. The heads look in rough shape, and still had spark plugs in them. They are completely dry and even the springs are rusted quite a bit.
I also discovered a 400 modified block. Heads look nice and the crank looks like I should be able to turn it down. I believe it's out of a late 70's bronco.
I'm hoping to get around 300 hp atleast out of my motor. What is my best option? Seeing if I can salvage the windsor heads and completely rebuild them, maybe go the chevy 327 valve route on the rebuild?? Buying complete heads somewhere else like dsc or aftermarket? Should I also do a cam, and windage tray? There are several things to think about here. One being, my motor in the car already has 100k miles on it, and sat for over a decade without running. Should I rebuild the entire block or just rebuild the 1970 windsor motor, and swap it in? Or do I just start over with the 400 modified?
In the end, which would be the most cost effective approach to doing this?
Definitly lots of questions for a first post.. Thanks for any help!
You already have a 351W in the car, albeit not one of the better years (smog equipment), but the car is already set up for it.
You have on hand two different motors, one of which is the same engine that the car currently has. You need to change over the mounts from one to the other, but all else is a bolt up. I woudl rebuild the 351W you have on the floor, and replace the one in the car with it. That will simplify the swap quite a bit, and you can build for power during the rebuild.
The swap up to the 400M is going to require more "stuff" to make it happen. Do you really want to do all the extra work and hunt down all the extra parts?
Loads of goodies out there fro the 351W motor, and you have two. I think I woudl go that route if it were me.......
The 400M is only OK for the boat it once anchored...POS
I'd start with the 70 351W, add a PerformerRPM intake, 750cfm carb, port the stock heads and get a good set of stainless valves, upgrade to the Ford 1.94 aftermarket valves if you want to and add hardened pushrods, guideplates, and screw in studs. Headers, windage tray, Lunati 61002 cam kit, 10.5:1 compression. I'd also use low ternsion rings, like ford uses on the 4.6s to get 15-20 free hp.
A motor like that ought to run on plus all day and make a smidge over 400hp
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66 coupe 5.0/T5, home-brewed power 4 wheel disc setup, 350hp+, looks like it belongs in 1968
The 400M is only OK for the boat it once anchored...POS
yet another uninformed person that can not see potential, the 400 will come alive with some porting, a good cam, an Edelbrock 400 performer intake, a 4 barrel carb and desent exhaust. Of course, the smog holes need to be blocked, and for a little work, make enough power to spin the rear tires on a 70's land yaucht with a 2.48 rear gear and run over 130 at El Mirage
That being said, the 67 engine bay is a bit too small for a 400
thanks, you guys gave me just the reassurance I needed..
I dropped the 400m parts off to be checked and cleaned, and I'll just see if anyones looking to buy one..
The machinist thought the 351 block, heads and crank are still in decent shape, so I am gonna start piecing that together. Once it's done, I'll just do the swap.
Here's what I have on hand currently, let me know what I should have done to the block, heads and crank while they are at the machinist.
On my current motor, I have a full msd ignition, 4150 carb with a dominator intake, and just picked up a set of hedman headers (my hooker headers are in real rough shape).
I assumed I would have the block dipped and do a port match with the heads. Hardened seats will be put in, and now I need to get a new valvetrain for them.
Thanks for the suggestions 5.0!
Any more ideas?
Also, what should I steal off the running motor to save me some dough on the rebuild? I was assuming the oil pan atleast and rocker arms?
I feel safe wrenching, but am not the guy to do the planning..
You have a good ignition system to use already. SAVE IT!!!
You have a good intake and carb. SAVE THEM!!!!
You just bought good headers.....obvious answer there.
Bump the compression up to 9.5:1 with some forged pistons, and add a nice valvetrain to your current list of good parts, and labor (port matching). You shoudl see 400hp or so at the flywheel depending on the cam you choose to go with.
Call comp cams and give them the rundown of what you have or are planning to do and let them help you select a cam based on your criteria (mpg, power level, etc). They are very good at what they do and more than willing to help.
Now, for cheap insurance (well, maybe not cheap) I woudl upgrade those connecting rods right now. You will have the engine apart anyway, so invest the bucks to bulletproof it.
I believe the rocker arms are different on the '77 than the '70. The '77 has positive stop rockers and the '70 has rail type and 3/8" studs. There may even be a balance issue between the years, I don't remember when they changed, but the balancer and flywheel/flexplate may have a different counterweight, so you will want to check first before you mix and match these parts.
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If you're not rinning a Cleveland, it ain't fast enough.
yet another uninformed person that can not see potential, the 400 will come alive with some porting, a good cam, an Edelbrock 400 performer intake, a 4 barrel carb and desent exhaust. Of course, the smog holes need to be blocked, and for a little work, make enough power to spin the rear tires on a 70's land yaucht with a 2.48 rear gear and run over 130 at El Mirage
That being said, the 67 engine bay is a bit too small for a 400
the 67 will except the FE motor perfectly so the 400 is no trouble at all.
My 67 fastback came with a 390 in it...
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06 Mustang GT
Performance White
06 Mustang V6
Windveil Blue
the 67 will except the FE motor perfectly so the 400 is no trouble at all.
My 67 fastback came with a 390 in it...
if your car is a S Code, GET A 390!!! That being said, 390 cars have different shock towers/ A 351M/400 is 26 inches, a FE is 27 inches wide, however, the FE had exhaust manifolds designed to fit the Mustang, the 351M/400 did not, and custom headers to fit are expensive, it can be done, but it will cost you. Not only that, BUT the maximum widths of the engines are at different heights
I believe the rocker arms are different on the '77 than the '70. The '77 has positive stop rockers and the '70 has rail type and 3/8" studs. There may even be a balance issue between the years, I don't remember when they changed, but the balancer and flywheel/flexplate may have a different counterweight, so you will want to check first before you mix and match these parts.
All 351Ws were 28 ounce motors. I think the earlier heads have stud mounted rockers, and the later one would have pedestal mounted rockers - though I'm not sure when they changed.
And, if you want to do some machine work, you can make the 400M crank work in the Windsor block. You could also make the heads work, but you would need a custom intake.
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1992 Deep Emerald Green Mustang GT Hatch, 5 speed, 2.73s, Mac fenderwell cold air intake, '93 Cobra MAF, Mac 70mm throttle body & spacer, Explorer intakes, Mac unequal headers & offroad pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 110lph fuel pump, Jet adjustable FPR, MSD Blaster coil, Accel 8mm wires, FRPP aluminum quadrant, UPR firewall adjuster, stock cable, Granatelli upper control arms.
Waiting to go on: Granatelli lower control arms, and GT40 Iron heads!
if your car is a S Code, GET A 390!!! That being said, 390 cars have different shock towers/ A 351M/400 is 26 inches, a FE is 27 inches wide, however, the FE had exhaust manifolds designed to fit the Mustang, the 351M/400 did not, and custom headers to fit are expensive, it can be done, but it will cost you. Not only that, BUT the maximum widths of the engines are at different heights
The 351W is the taller engine as well as the 428(police interceptor).
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06 Mustang GT
Performance White
06 Mustang V6
Windveil Blue
The 351W is the taller engine as well as the 428(police interceptor).
um, I have all 3 engines mentioned in this thread, a 400, a 428 and a 351W, the 400 from the bottom of the pan to the highest point minus the carb is the same hieght as a 428 and the 351W. The FE pan is shallower than the 400's, and the block is longer. THE OVERALL HEIGHT IS THE SAME AT 29 INCHES! The lengths and widths are different, and the heights of the exhaust ports are different.
um, I have all 3 engines mentioned in this thread, a 400, a 428 and a 351W, the 400 from the bottom of the pan to the highest point minus the carb is the same hieght as a 428 and the 351W. The FE pan is shallower than the 400's, and the block is longer. THE OVERALL HEIGHT IS THE SAME AT 29 INCHES! The lengths and widths are different, and the heights of the exhaust ports are different.
yep, I have a 428 pi sitting in the corner. Nice little split down the front of it though, that's why I didn't mention using it. but size wise, fits your description..
I really need to sit down and figure a budget here. As mentioned by meangreen92, I was told the 400m crank is what many companies use in their stroker kits for the 351w. That along with some 6.2" connecting rods, and you have over 400 ci's...But, then it seems like an absolute waste to use the stock heads, cause I can't imagine them flowing well enough to take advantage of it.
the dart heads look great, but don't think I wanna spend that kinda money. Maybe world products?
The trick here is though, how much is the machining on that crank gonna cost? I can get a stroker kit from scat or eagle products for a little under 1k, with the new crank MADE to fit.
But, still need to buy rest of parts for the motor. Looks like if I want to stroke it, I'll be atleast 2k into this. Closer to 3k.
Can I honestly just have those stock heads machined, rebuild my motor without the stroker and approach 400?
Seems to me that all the old heads have going for them is the higher compression, but they don't flow NEARLY as well as anything new.
Plus, I have to by pushrods, oil pump, cam kit...etc...
Do I just do this right the first time, stroke it, buy new heads..etc..?
I can't decide. I always get WAY to ENGROSSED with everything I get into.
Stay with Windsor or go 400 modified engine in my 1967 Mustang? 
