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1969 mustang fastback 351 W

2K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  bobohead 
#1 ·
Bought car w/engine out (previous owner had car painted) Engine was missing water pump. On the radiator the bottom hose is on the driver side and the top hose is on the pass side,but everytime I try to order one for a 1969, it has the bottom radiatir hose outlet on the pass side. The code on the drivers side block under the head is stamped HHDF5177. ANY HELP !
 
#2 ·
They should both be on the passenger side if you have a stock water pump. If you put on a reverse flow water pump then I'm assuming the bottom hose will need to be on the driver's side. I recommend putting a stock water pump on and then a stock radiator and everything will be on the passenger side as designed. I don't know what the stamp translates to or if it requires a reverse flow water pump.
 
#3 ·
1969 Mustang 351 w waterpump

Tried Using pump for a 69 351 W with both outlets on pass side, but alternator and power steering brackets would not line up properly.Thats where Im at.Idont know if this is original engine or what year it is. I looked at a waterpump for a 1970 Mustang 351 and the bottom outlet is on the driver side like mine. I might give that a try to see if my power steering and alt brackets line up.
 
#4 ·
Sounds like you've got an engine I'm not familiar with. Hopefully, someone else will chime in.
 
#5 ·
Sounds like you have a 1970 radiator. Matching parts a 1970 351W should help you match it. There are folks who believe that putting the hose outlets on opposite sides of the radiator helps it cool better. If that's true then what you are doing is upgrading your cooling system over what's technically supposed to be on there. :) The great majority of folks don't know about this little difference between 1969 and 1970 so unless you are going for concours correct it should be all good. If I hadn't run across a seriously good deal on a new '69 radiator my plan was to outfit my '69 351W with a '70 style cooling system.
 
#10 ·
Cool, I didn't know that was a difference between 69-70. Thanks.
 
#6 · (Edited)
1969 Mustang 351 w waterpump

Thanks, this has been a difficult engine re-install, as I haven't had a clue as to what engine this is and this is my first Ford. According to the Vin the original engine was a H code 351W . I checked under valve covers and heads are stamped 302 but looking at block deck height at distributor and other signs it is a H code 351 w. On the back drivers side on flat spot on block under edge of head are stamped HHDF5771 but the last 4 digits don't match my vin.Someone told me the old hot rodders would put 302 heads on a 351. I wish this was the original Hcode but it seems not to be.Any help decoding this would help tremendously. I tried to start up e ngine and it backfires thru carb and runs very rough as if timing/firing order is off but checked everything and is correct if this is a 351w, but I know the 302 has a different firing order as well as a 302 HO and a 351 M . Any help would be appreciated!
 
#8 ·
You can try the "289/302" spark plug firing order. Years ago a lot of performance cams were available with the 302 firing order and very few with the 351W order. No problem. Buy the cam you wanted and simply swap spark plug wires around to match the camshaft's firing order.
Many 302 and 351W heads over the years were exactly the same except slightly bigger bolt holes for the larger 351W head bolts. ARP sells adapter bolts so the heads can be swapped back and forth at will. People who didn't want to buy the bolts would simply drill or ream the 302 head bolts holes oversized. So there's potential for all sorts of mix and match stuff that may have happened. I wouldn't worry about it other simple curiosity.
See if changing the firing order helps. First, triple check that your spark plugs are REALLY in the right order, one by one. I like to think I know what I'm doing around a Ford but that's bitten me a few times anyway. Start at the the cap and trace each wire by hand if you have any doubts at all.
 
#9 ·
Thanks,I Am going to spend all weekend in the shop and try to get this sorted.To complicate matters, I noticed all the roller rockers on one side had play, as if it has a solid lifter camshaft. I am going to pull other valve cover and check all intake/.exhaust valve lash with a feeler guage to see if it consistant to determine if solid or hydr cam or if someone never adjusted.Once I check that if no improvement ,I will swap firing order to 302 to see what happens.
 
#11 ·
Just a thought. Many people use a 302 camshaft when adding more HP to the engine. If this is the case the 302 firing order will work on a 351w. Also, there are no "matching serial numbers" on 351w engines to match a VIN. Most Fords do not have serial numbers on the blocks. You have to go by casting numbers to research what engine you have.
 
#12 ·
69 mustang fastback

Success!!Found I do have solid lifter camshaft and re-verified firing order/timing and still runs rough/popping back. Tried 302 firing order and was worse.(thanks for suggesting might have 302 cam as Iwould not have known that) Was doing by myself and don't have remote starter so called a friend to come over and crank car so I could check other things out. Went old school and pulled plug out of #1 and had him bump starter as I had my finger in plug hole and when popped finger out, checked rotor location on dist. Found it was 2-3 pins off--somone installed a aftermarket racing harmonic balancer and 0 TDC was actually 4in off. Put timing light away and set w.vacuum guage and now runs awesome.I have a few minor leaks to fix and by next week-end there will be one more Mustang back on the road after 6 years. Thanks to those who offered me their experience and passion .I know I will be asking more questions in the future like ----HOW DO YOU REPLACE THE HEATER HOSES THAT DISAPPEAR THRU THE FIREWALL??
 
#13 ·
That's good news. Are you talking about the hose that connects to the water pump or the one that connects on the intake? Either way, the hose should just be held on with some clamps. Just loosen the clamps with a screw driver and you just pull the hose off the nipple holding it on. It is connected at the firewall to the heater core that is behind your glove box and there is an in/out sticking into the engine bay. If you let your car sit and cool down you can undo one end of the hose and run the extra coolant into a container without having to drain the whole system. You'll still have some spill out so have some towels ready.

If you don't care about being concours correct, I have a brand new '69 hose that you can have for $20 plus the ride. Mustang Heater Hose Show Quality Red Stripe 1969 | CJ Pony Parts
 
#14 ·
So I remove glove box to axcess hose connections?. I want to change both of them and cant even see them from under dash. I bought a under hood kit w/all hoses w/ factory correct stamping and clamps .But by no means is everything factory correct yet. I'm just buying the things I am replacing to that standard, and will keep going after I get it back on the road.Just a fyi --when I purchaced the 69 Mustang, I also acquired a 7o-71 complete 351 C That was disassembled and all machine work was completed but not re-assembled. Heads are completely rebuilt and assembled.The previous owner was going to install in 69 but lost intrest. Have all parts/have pics on request.If you know anyone doing a period correct restoration.
 
#15 ·
No, no...behind the glove box is just where the heater core is at, inside a fiberglass box co-located with your a/c evaporator. The hoses are attached in the engine bay just like you see them. Simply loosen whatever clamp is holding them on and pull the hoses straight towards the front of the car. Try not to wiggle the hoses too much as they are connected to brass fittings and you can bend them. The hoses may be stuck on there and if you are replacing them, then cutting them lengthwise a little may allow you to pry them off easier. One hose will also have a metal valve looking thing on it about 6 inches from the end. This opens and closes by vacuum on the inside and allows your hot fluid to run into the heater core. Be sure to take some pictures so you put this back on correctly and on the correct hose.

Here's a picture of the heater core and the two lines that are sticking into your engine bay that your heater hoses are connected to. Mustang Heater Core With Air Conditioning 1967-1973 | CJ Pony Parts

Here's a picture of the water valve. Ford Mustang Air Conditioning Water Control Valve 1969-1973
 
#16 ·
The last time I changed heater hoses on my '66 I just cut the old ones off, leaving a couple of inches sticking out of the firewall under the hood. I found some right angle brass fittings that fit the inside of the hoses to attach the new heater hoses to. I do realize I will have to bite the bullet someday and replace the sections attached to the box. But as you've noticed, they are a royal pain to get to.

What I'd really like to do is pull the box out and solder or braze some extensions on the box fittings that will stick through the firewall.
 
#17 ·
Im a little confused , my heater hose connections go straight thru firewall with no visable connections or accessable clamps, and I have no fiberglass box at all. This is a non-a/c car.The firewall is flat and holes where hoses go thru are rolled so there are no sharp edges. I cannot see the hose connections from the engine bay or under the dash as the heater duct is tight to the firewall from the inside.
 
#18 ·
That's what I have done. I cut hoses and splced but they were dry and hard and didn't want to deal w/unexpected failure under the dash/interior compartment and have bought period correct hoses to replace entire length. Iguess I will save expensive hose and use generic heater hose for now.Thought there might be a better way to acess. Someone told me this was a pain to change out and you just confirmed it. Do you have to remove heater duct to acess?
 
#19 ·
It's probably a good idea to remove the heater box and replace the hoses that go to the core, or the core as well if it's old.
If there is a leak of some sorts at the core, antifreeze will leak on the inside of the car onto the carpet and underlayment.
The heater box will probably be full of leaves and stuff and hopefully the heater box door is not all rusted out.
They sell a heater box door seal kit that you can use to seal up the door.
It will keep the heat out of the cabin when you don't need it.
Good luck.
 
#20 ·
Sorry, I don't know why I thought you had a/c. Either way, it sounds like someone did something strange in the past, maybe a bypass of some sort. If you don't have a fiberglass box behind the glove box I'm almost willing to bet those hoses you are talking about make a loop back there and you may not have a heater core either. Someone took the easy way out of fixing things. Take some pictures for us so we can see what is going on.
 
#21 ·
It's common for a heater core to leak and some previous owner doesn't want to deal with it and bypasses the system. Usually they run a loop in the engine compartment but some joker may have thought he'd be cute and ran the loop through the existing holes in the firewall then back out.

Unless you plan on showing the car at judged events or opening up a museum I wouldn't bother at all about "correct" heater hose and such. And if you want AC in the future, you're better off with a Vintage Air Gen IV unit that dehumidifies the defrost and has electronic controls that run off your original dashboard controls, yet work like a modern car.
 
#22 ·
Sounds like I should pull things apart and find out what has been done. I am accustomed to the heater core fittings sticking thru the firewall on all vehicles, but as I said this is my first Ford project and I wasn't sure what was NORMAL for a 69. I am Just using Ford factory correct items on things I am having to replace anyway, In case down the road I or someone else want to take it to the next level.Thanks for your input.
 
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