[302Feen]

Originally Posted by lilduececoupe77

You can be just as easily hit and killed by a foul ball, it doesnt matter where your at or what kind of racing that you do, its just as dangerous either way, thats the bottom line. period.

If there was a lightning storm, I could very easily walk out and get struck by a huge bolt of lightning. But you'd be the one walking around covered in tin foil and a huge rod in your hands....

What that means is that yes, it is dangerous to race at a track, but that doesn't mean you go out and race on the street because it's just a little more dangerous...

Street racing IS more dangerous and I hope deep down you know that.

[PLstang]

You asked how many people on here have there NHRA license. Add me to that list.

And shortly I'll be going for my extreme license.

And I don't street race either. It's also not because I lack the skills as you stated.

I'm not going to even bother with addressing your other statements.

Honestly, we have a "kills" section in this forum and that's probably where the street racing belongs. It's not drag racing in my opinion (just my .02).

[lilduececoupe77]

[quote=302Feen;1504654][quote=lilduececoupe77;1504602]Ok Reggie, you got on that one, but really how many guys out there have their NMRA, NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, INDY or whatever other license it may be??? There are a slim few ppl with those.
That's why they make Test & Tune nights. So people like me with a 15 second car can go out and safely have a good time, I can also race my car club buddies legally and safely.

As far as a track being designed to minimize the risk I believe that I have already covered that, and I want bashing the "good" tracks out there because there are some darn good ones, but I was saying that street racing is no more dangerous that the tracks that most everyone has to go to like the ones around here, There are no EMTs, no safer Barriers, and the "tech guys" are a bunch of toothless shadetree rednecks that think they know cars!
I keep feeling like you consider the EMT's, safe barriers, and tech guys to make drag racing more dangerous or something... That's like someone telling me that seat belts kill people.

These are what Im comparing to, Not NHRA, NMRA, or IHRA santioned tracks, unfortunately we dont have any near here and all we have are mom and pop tracks, So like I said, I would rather put my life in my own hands than that of some retard that cant even back their car up without someone flagging them. Its my opinion, and if ya choose to say that Im not a "real racer" because I occasionally find myseld on a deserted dead end road or a road that has been left to rot due to interstate taking its place then so be it, but When there is no traffic period on a road and no one there except the one participating then I dont see anything wrong with it,
I understand that some states don't have any or maybe one track, and I think that is kinda stupid. Drag strips should be like representatives... There should be a certain amount of tracks per the size of the state and the population. BUT, that still doesn't make street racing right.
Think about this... You somehow found these deserted roads, that means that there ARE people that CAN travel by. Maybe some guy that's lived there for forever and takes that road instead of the interstate or some out-of-towner that got lost. IT CAN HAPPEN, and it only takes one time to screw up.

Its not illegal to race on abandonded roads that the state has left to rot,
I would like to see this in writing...

As for the Sanctioned tracks, my cousin was killed at a NHRA sanctioned track walking thru the pits,
You can't punish the whole world for one persons mistake. That means, don't think that happens at every track. People die every day from things that could have been prevented... Example: When two people are street racing and hit an innocent driver and kills the innocent driver, and the racer gets out without a scratch.
If anything, that incident should scare you away from street racing especially.
I'm sorry about your cousin, but your reasoning makes no sense. Again, think about all of the people that have been killed because of two "street racers" that thought they were on a safe road.

Just remember, you asked for everyones opinion, I don't think anyone is BASHING you. But they are disagreeing with your opinion about street racing.

If that accident that happened to your cousin in the Pits at a strip, then it could happen just as easy at one of your "abandoned" roads. Again, your reasoning doesnt' make sense.

Yes, I understand test and tune nights and how they work, and think they are a great thing, as for thinking that EMTs safer barriers etc make racing more dangerous, I was explaining that the tracks around here dont have them and the only techs here are the toothless shadetree rednecks that think they know cars. As for deserted roads I mean deserted, not traveled. The road in paticular is a piece of road that was left in the middle of a field on my buddies land when the new interstate was complete, the only way to this road is to cross my buddies land and that dont happen unless he gives permission to be there. The road is no longer a working road if that helps you understand what i was saying better. Basically its a piece of asphalt that he owns now and not the state, thats why I said its not illegal to race abandoned roads. I also said that i think that having good tracks are great, I have no problem with them and thats not what Im saying, but just like you said a freak accident can happen anywhere, just like my cousins. As far as 2 racers killing ppl by running a redlight, as I have said before they are idiots for racing in traffic anyway, or anywhere that puts another persons life in danger, but just like Reggie said, you can just as easily be hit by a foul ball at a baseball game and die as you can from racing, it doesnt matter where your racing. Its funny that everyone keeps going back to that and how little sense it makes, you guys say it like something happening to you or someone else is a more noble death than it happening somewhere else. I know it doesnt happen at all tracks what happened to my cousin, but it can happen and it can happen just as easy on the street. You guys have what Im saying all misconstrued, go back and read the original post, as when you guys are copying me you are copying what you want to get out of it, not the whole story. I never once said that street racing wasnt dangerous but freak accidents happen anywhere, even on the track.

[RLG34750]

Originally Posted by PLstang

I'm not going to even bother with addressing your other statements.

Honestly, we have a "kills" section in this forum and that's probably where the street racing belongs. It's not drag racing in my opinion (just my .02).

Just for the record i moved this thread here.....

i wanted "real racer" to respond......

and it is interesting conversation fodder....


i had considered moving it to the kills section

but it would have just got convuluted view instead of the truth.....

Eric your .02 cents is always valued.....

[lilduececoupe77]

Originally Posted by 302Feen

If there was a lightning storm, I could very easily walk out and get struck by a huge bolt of lightning. But you'd be the one walking around covered in tin foil and a huge rod in your hands....

What that means is that yes, it is dangerous to race at a track, but that doesn't mean you go out and race on the street because it's just a little more dangerous...

Street racing IS more dangerous and I hope deep down you know that.

Lol, thats a good one, but honestly yes I know street racing is dangerous as well is walking thru pits at tracks sitting in the stands at tracks on the list goes on and on. For those who street race on busy streets and residential areas yes the possibility is alot greater, but on the road I race on, not my buddies land but the L shaped that I talked about in my original post I have seen one car that was not in our group in 10 years of racing out there, and for my cousin to die in the pits, even if those were the only 2 instances that I have witnessed by experience I would still say they are equally dangerous. Like I said it is opinion.

[lilduececoupe77]

Originally Posted by PLstang

You asked how many people on here have there NHRA license. Add me to that list.

And shortly I'll be going for my extreme license.

And I don't street race either. It's also not because I lack the skills as you stated.

I'm not going to even bother with addressing your other statements.

Honestly, we have a "kills" section in this forum and that's probably where the street racing belongs. It's not drag racing in my opinion (just my .02).

I didnt say that everyone lacks the skills, sorry you guys were offended by that, but 90 percent of ppl use take it to the track as an excuse. The rest are actually looking out for others well being. I get that, Also, lets use this as an example and then maybe we can get to the point i was making, Ok so you and Reggie have your License, and How many other members do on this forum opposed to the ones who dont?? Im sure the greater of the 2 is the ones who dont, and those are the ones that i was referring to. I think its great that you guys have your license and just a little info, so did my cousin as well as his 2 brothers, One of which will be driving a 1200 hp 499 ci natually aspirated Hemi Avenger funny car this year, I understand that there are ppl who have a license that says they can race, but my cousin wasnt killed by a driver in a race at a track, he was killed by a licensed driver who couldnt adhere to the rules and pit speed and killed him, so having a license doesnt make a persons skill set any betterthan a guy that dont have it, just as I said about my baby cousin earlier, Ill put him against anyone that wants to race him and Im sure he can compete with just about anyone. Ive been around santioned events all my life, well since I was 9 and I have seen alot and I still believe they are both equally dangerous.

[PLstang]

Originally Posted by RLG34750

Just for the record i moved this thread here.....

i wanted "real racer" to respond......

and it is interesting conversation fodder....

I'm good with that. I was simply saying that if he wants to talk about street racing there is a place on this forum for it. This forum does not exclude him.

However, most "real racers" don't view street racing as Drag Racing.

I've been down some pretty crappy tracks (as I'm sure you have Reggie), I've been all over the U.S., I've never thought they were more dangerous then the street.

The fact is that I knew it was my choice to make that pass. I understood the risk. What's more everyone around the track understood the risk and signed a waiver to be there.

Street racing simply is a violation of the law, you can argue the laws wrong, yet until it's changed it's the law. The fact is that no matter how careful, how safety concience you are, you can't account for the other people that could, by some chance become involved (or could be involved but later argue they had no idea what was going on). There are just too many variables. Don't get me wrong that doesn't mean that racing on the strip removes all those variables, it doesn't. However, it does greatly reduce them.

The problem simply is that you say your careful. You take all the precautions. When you break the law and street race your forcing me (or any body else that could be in your path) to trust you and your judgement, and I don't get a say in the matter, I don't get a choice. That my friend, in the end, is what makes it wrong. Even if you have excellent judgement, are the safest person in a car any where on this earth, at what point do you think it's fare to say you should get to make the choice for others and what standard should be applied to govern that? The two guys that run the red light and kill somebody, I'm sure if you asked them before it happened they would have said they weren't going to do anything to get anyone hurt. I'm sure they thought their judgement was sound. That's why it's illegal. That's why people will argue it's unsafe. Because you through your actions are making choices for others. Choices the law says you do not have the right to make.

[PLstang]

Originally Posted by lilduececoupe77

I didnt say that everyone lacks the skills, sorry you guys were offended by that, but 90 percent of ppl use take it to the track as an excuse. The rest are actually looking out for others well being. I get that, Also, lets use this as an example and then maybe we can get to the point i was making, Ok so you and Reggie have your License, and How many other members do on this forum opposed to the ones who dont?? Im sure the greater of the 2 is the ones who dont, and those are the ones that i was referring to. I think its great that you guys have your license and just a little info, so did my cousin as well as his 2 brothers, One of which will be driving a 1200 hp 499 ci natually aspirated Hemi Avenger funny car this year, I understand that there are ppl who have a license that says they can race, but my cousin wasnt killed by a driver in a race at a track, he was killed by a licensed driver who couldnt adhere to the rules and pit speed and killed him, so having a license doesnt make a persons skill set any betterthan a guy that dont have it, just as I said about my baby cousin earlier, Ill put him against anyone that wants to race him and Im sure he can compete with just about anyone. Ive been around santioned events all my life, well since I was 9 and I have seen alot and I still believe they are both equally dangerous.

As Reggie said I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. However, you make my point. Your brother was at the strip and in the pits. He was aware of his choice and the inherent danger. He most likley signed a waiver to be there. That in itself is the diference we speak of. HE GOT TO MAKE A CHOICE. Yes someone made a mistake and he paid for it. The difference is that when you street race (not sure the private strip you describe would fall under that, but that's another debate) others loose their choice. You remove their free will and their judgement and through your actions replace it with your own will and your judgement. That is what (in my opinion) makes street racing fundamentaly wrong. Safe or not is being left up to you and no one else gets a say in it.

In regards to having your license that's not required till you reach a certain point. Not everyone has reached that point. Not everyone is turning 9 second passes. Hence by the rules they aren't required to have a license.

[lilduececoupe77]

Heres a little info on street racing crashes and drag strip crashes, as I have said they are equally dangerous, heres an example, go to youtube and search drag strip crashes and deaths, there are 108 listed, and then go to street racer crashes and deaths and there are 122 listed, that doesnt seem to be that much of a difference to say that one is worse than the other, as for the guys who have licenses, do you remember Scott Kalitta, he was a great racer and son of Connie Kalitta. Also go and check out a video on youtube called drag race crash kills 6, that is one of those time that is it really safer than street racing? Ive never killed 6 people nor have I seen it happen on the streets. As for tracks being contrlled enviornments, What about Dale Earnhart Sr, Alan Kulwicki, Paul Dana, JD McDuffie so name a few, I know that they arent all drag racers, but that just goes to show that just because its a controlled enviorment that it is safer. These are just a few of many, so yes actually death happens just as often in both we just happen to live in different areas and the risk is greater for one than the other, depending on the area. This can be discussed all day long and there will always be more to debate but when its all said and done, they are equally as dangerous.

[lilduececoupe77]

Originally Posted by PLstang

As Reggie said I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. However, you make my point. Your brother was at the strip and in the pits. He was aware of his choice and the inherent danger. He most likley signed a waiver to be there. That in itself is the diference we speak of. HE GOT TO MAKE A CHOICE. Yes someone made a mistake and he paid for it. The difference is that when you street race (not sure the private strip you describe would fall under that, but that's another debate) others loose their choice. You remove their free will and their judgement and through your actions replace it with your own will and your judgement. That is what (in my opinion) makes street racing fundamentaly wrong. Safe or not is being left up to you and no one else gets a say in it.

Your right he did make the choice to work on his brothers car, but he didnt make a choice for some idiot to braek the rules and run him over! That in itself can be debated as choice, as for the waiver that you sign it says that the track and its faciltators are not responsible for accidents, no where in it does it say that Hey if Joe Racer in the other lane loses control of his car its ok to crash into me and kill me, nor does it say that if Joe Racer blows thru the pits ( breaking rules and the law are all the some when you put someone elses life in danger ) and kills me Im ok with that. Just like the people that have been innocently killed by street racers didnt say the same thing. When a car at a strip crashes and lands in the stands or the hood flys off and kill 10 ppl in the stands they didnt say it was ok either, the only choice they had was not to go, just as the street racers have the choice not to race and put ppls life in danger. Its the same thing, street racers are gonna race, dragsters are gonna race and end the end some innocent bystander is gonna get hurt or killed, therefore as my argument began, they are equally as dangerous, I never said that street racing wasnt illegal, but breaking the rules at a track and racing on the street and killing someone is killing either way ya look at and neither of the deceased made a choice to die, I know my cousin didnt wake that morning and say today is a good day to die lets go to the track! Killing someone at a track by breaking the rules is no more justifiable than killing someone racing in a street race. Death is not a choice, Im sorry I do not agree with that nonsense of thinking one is more justifiable than the other and anyone thinking so has a misunderstanding of reality.

[PLstang]

Originally Posted by lilduececoupe77

Heres a little info on street racing crashes and drag strip crashes, as I have said they are equally dangerous, heres an example, go to youtube and search drag strip crashes and deaths, there are 108 listed, and then go to street racer crashes and deaths and there are 122 listed, that doesnt seem to be that much of a difference to say that one is worse than the other, as for the guys who have licenses, do you remember Scott Kalitta, he was a great racer and son of Connie Kalitta. Also go and check out a video on youtube called drag race crash kills 6, that is one of those time that is it really safer than street racing? Ive never killed 6 people nor have I seen it happen on the streets. As for tracks being contrlled enviornments, What about Dale Earnhart Sr, Alan Kulwicki, Paul Dana, JD McDuffie so name a few, I know that they arent all drag racers, but that just goes to show that just because its a controlled enviorment that it is safer. These are just a few of many, so yes actually death happens just as often in both we just happen to live in different areas and the risk is greater for one than the other, depending on the area. This can be discussed all day long and there will always be more to debate but when its all said and done, they are equally as dangerous.

Well it's apparent that your not getting where I'm coming from and that's fine.

You can argue that both are just as dangerous. Because they are you feel you have the right to put others at risk because you want to race on the street. The law says your wrong but you know better. The guy that doesn't like street racing says it's a bad idea, but you know better. You have better judgement then the person that may accidentaly get involved or stumble into your path....so you'll make the choice for him....heck what does he know anyways right? You been around racing all your life....you can make the call for him ...right? Besides nothing gonna happen right!

Oh crap there's the cops, crap turn here, get out of here....were gonna get busted.....go man make a right here... What was that. Dude, I think you hit somebody.

I know that will never happen to you. I hope it never does anyway.

Good luck with trying to convince everyone street racing is a better choice then racing on the track. You won't be winning that arguement with me we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[PLstang]

Originally Posted by lilduececoupe77

, the only choice they had was not to go, just as the street racers have the choice not to race and put ppls life in danger. Its the same thing, street racers are gonna race, dragsters are gonna race and end the end some innocent bystander is gonna get hurt or killed, therefore as my argument began, they are equally as dangerous,

Your one hundred percent right. the only diference is that the people that attend a race had a choice not to go (your own words). As did your brother. They got a choice!!!

street racers have the choice not to race and put ppls life in danger
Wow you get to decide whether your going to put my life in danger and I don't even get a say so in it! At least your brother had the choice to stay home, understood it was a dangerous place. However, your statement above says I don't deserve the same, nobody does. The "street racer" will decide for them. You think your brother got a raw deal (and I agree) but you tell me I'm not worthy of at least having the same level of choice that he did? That statement in itself tells me all I need to know about you.

[lilduececoupe77]

Originally Posted by PLstang

Your one hundred percent right. the only diference is that the people that attend a race had a choice not to go (your own words). As did your brother.
What choice do the people that have no idea your gonna make a run on the street have? They don't get one!!!!!!! You decided you'd make that choice for them!

Read that again, I also said that the street racers have the choice not to race. As for your last post, you guys gotta stop watching Fast and the Furious, that running from the cops dont work, their radios are soooo much faster than any car ill ever drive, even for you 9 or 10 second car. So with that said, not all ppl who street race run from the cops either, I have taken resposibility for my actions, I also have paid my 2500 fines several times, but not one time have I ever and I mean ever put anyone in danger that didnt know what was going on. You may think that you have it all figured out, but not all ppl who street race are the idiot ricers that ya see in the movies, nor is it something that I do all the time, I said occasionally, and when I do I make sure there is no possible way someone can get hurt, I guess thats why I have never had an incedent of anyone getting hurt by me or anyone with with me getting hurt or hurting someone else. You guys have it in your heads that everyone that races on the street regardless of what kind of street and its locale, that we are driving around with reckless abandon looking to hurt someone. Like I said before, in my original post, maybe you guys should read it again, because I wasnt knocking drag strips, nor was I defending the idiots that race on the main street in town. I was simply compaering street racing dangers in my area opposed to the tracks in my area, there is no difference what so ever, the tracks around here are crappy, and the management is the same, there are no safer barriers, no medical response nor are there any "real" techs the way the tracks around here are run are worse than an organized street race. This is my original debate, and Im sure if someone who came from a real track and saw the tracks here they would try to have them shut down due to safety issues and negligence, sadly enough no one says anything because its the only place that ppl can go and not get a 2500 fine. The closest "good" track from here is in Dallas which is almost 3 hours. Im sure if I lived somewhere the dangers were worse like Florida or somewhere where the larger cities are I may not argue that point with you, but I dont live there and whats safer here is to stay away from the crappy tracks. I did say in a previaous post that I had attended a street race in Memphis several years ago and it was one of those "organized" things, that wasnt so organized and the ppl were a bunch of idiot kids acting a fool, I left and never went back. I dont associate with ppl like that nor will i ever.

[302Feen]

The one thing I don't understand is that you keep talking about the accident that killed your cousin...
He was killed in the pits at a drag strip because of someone's stupid decision.... It keeps sounding like your jusifying street racing because of that accident. Which makes no sense.
I'll revert to what my parents always told me... "two wrongs don't make a right".

Now, I'm not there at the piece of assphault that you race on, so I don't know how "unsafe" you're really being. But drag strips have rules and standards as well as safety precautions such as walls fences and technical inspections. And I know you and your buddies don't inspect your cars like you should, and if you do, what makes you any better than that "toofless tech guy"?

Also, YouTube is not a creditable source for debate. (LoL I DID learn something in my one semester of debate class! ) just because there are this many youtube videos of drag strip crashes and this many street crashes means ZERO. Sorry...

I bet if you tried hard enough, you could get some facts on street racing vs. drag stips...

Oh yeah, street racing is defined as "a form of unsanctioned and illegal auto racing which takes place on public roads"
My point to this is, you ARE racing on public roads. And any abandoned road that isn't being taken care of by the city isn't fit for ANY kind of racing.

[lilduececoupe77]

Maybe you guys should look in a dictionary and read the definition of deserted and abandoned?? When I say those 2 words, I dont mean a lightly traveled road, I mean exactly what i said, deserted and abandoned. Im talking about roads that are no longer used for anything and are not open to traffic. These are old service roads for oil companies, old state service roads that are no longer used because they have no need for them anymore. The only way you can access these roads are by getting on someone elses property and you have to ask permission to be there, also we have a couple of old streets here that everything has been taken off of and are no longer used by anyone other than the racers, everyone knows it even the police, and sometimes they will come and watch because we are there and not racing uptown like a bunch of idiot kids. There is a difference, maybe not in your area, but here there is. The only time I have ever gotten a Ticket or even been questioned about racing was on L shaped and thats just because some ricer ended up out there and was acting a donkey and one of the police officers showed up to make sure that no one was going past the barriers we put up and the ricer was out there so the cop wrote us all a ticket, granted at the time we were outside of our cars tlking, he still wrote everyone a ticket and we paid them happily because we knew that we could go back and race without harming anyone and the ricer wouldnt be back. Im not justifying organized street racing, just what we do here and what the police allows us to do to keep it off the driven streets and to keep from hurting anyone. If ppl sont understand this its because you have not grown up in a small southern community where some things are acceptable even tho the rest of the world views it as wrong. Ppl are gonna race, one way or another, whether they be at a track or on the street, and if its on the street its better to stay away from ppl and other motorists like we do here. You alsosaid that my cousin had a choice, like I said he didnt have a choice the second that the racer broke the rules and killed him, thats where your reality meets fiction. He made a choice to work in the pits on a car, not to get run over by some idiot breaking the rules. Like I said as soon as you break the rules at a track you are no different than a street racer because you took the choice out of life for that person when you broke the rules either way. My cousin didnt make a choice to die, he made a choice to go have fun, nor did he ask for someone to break the rules and blow thru the pits and kill him, just like the ppl on the sidewalk didnt make that decision either, that has to be the dumbest statement that I think Ive heard someone say, NO ONE makes a decision to die, are you kidding me????