I agree that this woman's actions were disgusting and childish. I can also see that those actions, ultimately, contributed to the girl's choice to commit suicide. While we are insisting that folks take responsibility for their actions, however, let us not forget that the girl, indeed, made a choice. She chose to kill herself and, sad as that may be, ultimately, that is why she is dead. Insults or hurtful words from an undeniably screwed-up woman did not kill her - she killed herself.
What I am saying here is, as dispicable as Drew's actions were (and there is no denying that her actions were quite dispicable), our society must resist the urge to place all the responsibility for this situation on one person because then what we have is not justice but a scapegoat created by the use of civil laws to create a defacto criminal charge. While Drew's actions almost certainly contributed to Meier's choice to kill herself, ultimately Meier made that choice. In other words, Drew has some responsibility for this tragedy but, ultimately, it was Meier's own hand that was responsible for her death.
Further, do Meier's parents have no responsibility in this? After all, the article states that Meier was 'already clinically depressed' (which in my lay opinion is the likely real cause of her suicide - the MySpace incident was probably just a trigger.) Shouldn't they have been paying closer attention to the warning signs that their daughter could be a threat to her own safety? Shouldn't they have been more aware of what their daughter was doing online?
Now, before someone accuses me of 'victim blaming', just take a moment to consider my argument. After all, the term is suicide - which roughly translates as 'self-murder'. It means a person makes a choice to kill themselves. In the end, while the actions of others may contribute to a person making that choice, the person who kills themselves is principally responsible for their own death, not someone else.
I agree that this woman's actions were disgusting and childish. I can also see that those actions, ultimately, contributed to the girl's choice to commit suicide. While we are insisting that folks take responsibility for their actions, however, let us not forget that the girl, indeed, made a choice. She chose to kill herself and, sad as that may be, ultimately, that is why she is dead. Insults or hurtful words from an undeniably screwed-up woman did not kill her - she killed herself.
What I am saying here is, as dispicable as Drew's actions were (and there is no denying that her actions were quite dispicable), our society must resist the urge to place all the responsibility for this situation on one person because then what we have is not justice but a scapegoat created by the use of civil laws to create a defacto criminal charge. While Drew's actions almost certainly contributed to Meier's choice to kill herself, ultimately Meier made that choice. In other words, Drew has some responsibility for this tragedy but, ultimately, it was Meier's own hand that was responsible for her death.
Further, do Meier's parents have no responsibility in this? After all, the article states that Meier was 'already clinically depressed' (which in my lay opinion is the likely real cause of her suicide - the MySpace incident was probably just a trigger.) Shouldn't they have been paying closer attention to the warning signs that their daughter could be a threat to her own safety? Shouldn't they have been more aware of what their daughter was doing online?
Now, before someone accuses me of 'victim blaming', just take a moment to consider my argument. After all, the term is suicide - which roughly translates as 'self-murder'. It means a person makes a choice to kill themselves. In the end, while the actions of others may contribute to a person making that choice, the person who kills themselves is principally responsible for their own death, not someone else.
I am wondering if you have ever had a teenager, especially a girl. By the way, you said it. She was just a girl.
They are very good at covering up what they do. Parents being more aware of what she does online? come on, 24hrs a day? With internet access almost everywhere you turn around? Yes the girl had problems, but to have a grown women taunt her the way she did resulting in her suicide and not being held the least bit accountable? That is unacceptable. My wife had said while discussing this that women can be a whole lot nastier than men.
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Yes the girl had problems, but to have a grown women taunt her the way she did resulting in her suicide and not being held the least bit accountable? That is unacceptable.
Please notice that I did not say that Drew should 'not be held the least bit accountable.' What I said was that Drew did not kill Meier. Instead, Meier killed herself. I also said that I believe Drew's actions via MySpace contributed to Meier's decision to kill herself and was possibly the trigger. Meier should be sued into oblivion and should be ridiculed and looked down upon in the public eye wherever she goes for the rest of her life as the result of her revolting actions. She is not, however, primarily responsible for the girl's death in a legal, criminal sense. If she were, it would be a homicide, not a suicide. Finding her responsible for contributing to the girl's death in a civil court is a different thing.
I am wondering if you have ever had a teenager, especially a girl. By the way, you said it. She was just a girl.
They are very good at covering up what they do. Parents being more aware of what she does online? come on, 24hrs a day? With internet access almost everywhere you turn around? Yes the girl had problems, but to have a grown women taunt her the way she did resulting in her suicide and not being held the least bit accountable? That is unacceptable. My wife had said while discussing this that women can be a whole lot nastier than men.
This is all very true. I am the father of 4 daughters and I can tell you that what the girls all did to each other as well as the girls in their school did made what boys do look pretty pathetic. Also it is clear that many people do not understand what constant picking and bullying can do over time. I have a feeling that these same people were probably not picked on or bullied themselves, or anywhere near the amounts some kids get it.
And as I have stated before, I have been a victim of harassment AS AN ADULT and can say that it is one of the most infuriating things that can happen to someone and it creates a feeling of total powerlessness. Bullies, online and off, continue to do it because THEY CAN and NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT.
So those being bullied have two choices, do something to themselves out of pure depression, or do something to the bullies. But either way we have folks jumping in and claiming that neither is the fault of the bully/bullies and the one who somehow was wrong (in spite of claims they are not saying that) was the one who snapped.
Also keep in mind that this case is NOT a case of a little taunting, but continual harassment. It was not just a few words typed on the internet, no more so than Hurricane Catrina was just a few drops of water. Those drops sure add up pretty fast and if nothing is done about it...... you get my point.
So while I agree that the law being used to go after this "Adult" is not the right one to use, I say that SOMETHING needs to be done and not just in "civil" court.
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- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
Because this wasn’t illegal in the first place they tried to make it fit, now it has been overturned and rightly so.
Now I here people say, well they could still sue in civil court, DOHH! They always had the option of taking it to civil court and they would win if they went to civil court.
So Missouri under pressure from the “Feel Good” crowd changed its Peace Disturbance Law so now it basically says if you hurt someone feelings you just broke the law.
Obama would be so proud!
So everyone watch out if I fell you have hurt my feelings you could get charged!
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Because this wasn’t illegal in the first place they tried to make it fit, now it has been overturned and rightly so.
Now I here people say, well they could still sue in civil court, DOHH! They always had the option of taking it to civil court and they would win if they went to civil court.
So Missouri under pressure from the “Feel Good” crowd changed its Peace Disturbance Law so now it basically says if you hurt someone feelings you just broke the law.
Obama would be so proud!
So everyone watch out if I fell you have hurt my feelings you could get charged!
And as I have posted before, I strongly disagree with you on this issue. We have NOT found some sanity in this, we have once again found injustice. And this was not an issue of Terms of Service Violations or simply “hurting someone’s feelings”. Sorry.
But until YOU go through the harassment that this child went through (or I have gone through) you will simply not understand.
I hope that pathetic excuse for a woman gets what is coming to her, and I don’t mean in civil court. But of course I hope she gets what she deserves there as well.
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- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
...I hope that pathetic excuse for a woman gets what is coming to her, and I don’t mean in civil court. But of course I hope she gets what she deserves there as well.
In 100% agreement. I posted about this as one of my very first posts - It sickened me, the depth this "woman" went to - to harass a child.
She certainly did not get what she deserved.
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress,
can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Gandhi
And as I have posted before, I strongly disagree with you on this issue. We have NOT found some sanity in this, we have once again found injustice. And this was not an issue of Terms of Service Violations or simply “hurting someone’s feelings”. Sorry.
But until YOU go through the harassment that this child went through (or I have gone through) you will simply not understand.
I hope that pathetic excuse for a woman gets what is coming to her, and I don’t mean in civil court. But of course I hope she gets what she deserves there as well.
I agree, how is this any different than someone being thrown in prison for stalking? It's worse since it resulted in a suicide.
involuntary manslaughter at least.
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The woman who did this to a minor or otherwise, was clearly wrong and extremely immature for what she did.
*But*
There is no way she can be held accountable for the girl's suicide. *No one can be*. It's an act that is carried out by one's self, and is actually a choice that they made, a minor or otherwise. No one bystander has control of this if a person is going to act it out. They seal their own fate.
The person closest to me completed suicide 5 years ago, and I must say that dealing with a person as mentally deranged and depressed can be truly impossible, indeed. There are actually no words in the English language that I know that could possibly describe it. Completely different than any other form of grieving and loss from any kind of death. It's a twisted mess with many opinions, and facts are ignored due to guilt and denial.
Chances are very good that the parent's of this girl knew she had mental problems, and just ignored them. If not, she must have been completely to herself on it, and some nasty MySpace emails from some idiot in disguise, "making her take her own life" is ridiculous. If this is the case, then children and/or mentally unstable people, should not be able to have access to such things on the internet.
Sad but true, you have to find reasons to live. If not, you're going to die, one way or another. I personally, have no reason to judge someone if they really want to take their life, it's their choice to make. I prefer that people would try to help themselves and find some kind spiritual spark to go on and live happily, but for some, it's just not there, and you have situations like this. It's the cold & hard fact of the matter. It's really only in the Western World that there is this huge 'stigma' about it, mostly from religion and the family unit values.
No matter how you slice it, there will never be an answer to the reasons why they did it, and the horrible agony that the survivors (especially the ones that were close to one another, and now are not, which is usually the outcome) have to face, is worse than imaginable, from any other circumstances. You could only understand it, unless you've experienced it firsthand.
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