After listening to several Democrat Senators yesterday, I'd say that they will work out a strong bill on the topic - one acceptable to the Rebpuclians... Despite Reid, who does NOT enjoy the same degree of control as Pelossi in the House.
What happens in the House will depend entirely upon just how scared the Democrat Representatives become of losing their job to irate voters back home.
This is starting to get interesting...
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
While I agree Pelosi is a complete idiot and we need to tap our oil supply and do it soon, again we need more refineries which is the real problem and it is a problem created by the oil companies.
We need to utilize our oil we have but I don’t get the hostility toward alternative energy, I get why the oil companies don’t like it but not from us.
Wind energy is a great thing, migrating birds? How stupid are these birds? A study in Great Britain showed on average each turbine was responsible for 1 bird’s death; this is very marginal compared to other causes.
To me it seems as much of a non argument as ethanol rising the price of beef because of shortages of feed……even though the mash after being used to produce ethanol is then sold a feed…oops the oil companies don’t want people to know that.
Again I’m not saying things are perfect but solar and wind powder are free after the initial investment and that investment is steep but so were cell phones, computers and other technology before they because standard household items.
__________________
So , let me get this straight…..your Honda has 1.6 liters, whereas my bottle of Mountain Dew has 2?
Change…..it’s what is left after taxes.
- Shaken....Not Stirred 2003 Mach I Auto Torch Red - Sold
-1988 Ford Mustang GT Convertible, 331 Trick Flow Stroker with a Tremec 3550....oh yea and a 1.6 liter V-TECH motor to work the convertible top.
- 1966 Inline 6……..the pile of parts car!
While I agree Pelosi is a complete idiot and we need to tap our oil supply and do it soon, again we need more refineries which is the real problem and it is a problem created by the oil companies.
We need to utilize our oil we have but I don’t get the hostility toward alternative energy, I get why the oil companies don’t like it but not from us.
Wind energy is a great thing, migrating birds? How stupid are these birds? A study in Great Britain showed on average each turbine was responsible for 1 bird’s death; this is very marginal compared to other causes.
To me it seems as much of a non argument as ethanol rising the price of beef because of shortages of feed……even though the mash after being used to produce ethanol is then sold a feed…oops the oil companies don’t want people to know that.
Again I’m not saying things are perfect but solar and wind powder are free after the initial investment and that investment is steep but so were cell phones, computers and other technology before they because standard household items.
Agreed. But the real issue IMHO is that this has become a power struggle and little more. The Dems don't seem to understand that the answer is a wide range of things and not just ONE. The answer is not to just "suck it up and drive on" while we try to work on alternative energy sources, it is to utilize what resources we have available to us NOW (and that includes oil that may not be available "now" but in the relatively near future) as well as AGGRESSIVELY working on renewable resources. If by some chance we can't get things up and running with the "alternatives" we will still be self sufficient with our classic resources.
And as you stated, another key to it all is building more refineries. And you know what? I personally don't care if may tax money goes to build them. I have seen far worse things done with my money where I see NO benefit from it. And for those who don't want a new refinery built in their "backyard", why not just build them right next to the existing refineries? All the infrastructure is right there anyways, and folks are not building shopping malls and homes right next to them anyways.
This may not be a perfect answer, and there may be holes in my thinking, but at least I AM thinking.
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
Having been personally involved in a failed attempt to build a state of the art paper mill (vs the good old fashioned stinky kind), I can say that the refinery story is pretty complicated.
The roots of the problem go back to the Carter era - oil embargoes, bungled foreign policy, socialist experiments with government setting prices and attempting to control free markets, etc, etc. Disaster. America's oil industry crashed, we lost over 1.6Billion barrels of yearly production (and a growth rate that had been steadily increasing, but shrank dramatically at that point and has NOT come back).
Most notable was the fact that the American oil industry was getting bulldozed toward the exits then, and the bulldozing has not stopped to this day, regardless of which party happened to be running the white house or congress.
Today we are still talking about "American oil comapnies" as though there really WERE some left. Sure, Exxon/Mobil keeps their headquarters here, but that company now has 80% of its assets overseas, and is in the act of selling ALL of it remaining American retail operations and franchises. My own take on Exxon/Mobil is that they are notably slow witted. They are 85% out the door, and will be surely be moving to a more business-friendly country any day now, renting out their old corporate headquarters to some Church or mini warehouse firm.
All the other major oil companies attacked by Carter are now foreign owned. Every single one.
Oh, there is still an American oil industry - operated to extract dollars from the American economy and funnel them to their foreign masters.
Following the Carter disaster came another oil shock, followed by draconian environmental measures that created unscaleable barriers against building refineries. These barriers continued in place unchanged until some were changed during the later years of Reagan and the first few years of Bush I. Modified to make refinery building just extemely difficult (vs impossible), the oil companies responded by greatly augmenting capacity at existing facilities (essentially utilizing the loop holes created in the environmental walls). This is where our current collection of frankenstein refineries came from - weird combinations of old and new, ancient systems pouring into state-of-the-art systems. The oil companies have spent billions which SHOULD have gone to new refineries patching old ones and gluing new equipment onto old (I saw one interview where the supervising engineer likened it to attaching a jet engine to the Wright Brother's first plane).
Its noteworthy that the first new refinery since the mid-70's just broke ground in North Dakota (or was it South Dakota, I get them confused?). Other states are looking at the experiment, with Oklahoma and Texas both testing the waters to see if North Dakota can actually pull off the hat trick. Even with strong local support, I would not take odds that the environmental activists don't find a way to block the project just long enough to make it financially destructive for the brave souls making the investment.
Should or could it all have been handled smarter? Without a doubt.
Keep an eye on what's happening up in the Dakotas. If that pans out, there might be a hope of enticing foreign oil companies to invest billions in America's oil infrastructure.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
I think this is that private company not associated with the oil industry why decided to jump in because they saw they could make a killing because of the oil industries intentional slow pace……
__________________
So , let me get this straight…..your Honda has 1.6 liters, whereas my bottle of Mountain Dew has 2?
Change…..it’s what is left after taxes.
- Shaken....Not Stirred 2003 Mach I Auto Torch Red - Sold
-1988 Ford Mustang GT Convertible, 331 Trick Flow Stroker with a Tremec 3550....oh yea and a 1.6 liter V-TECH motor to work the convertible top.
- 1966 Inline 6……..the pile of parts car!
"Hoax" is Pelossi's new way to discuss any idea that America's citizens can produce anything to benefit themselves, vs, of course, her view that all good things flow from Government.
Egomaniacal leftists are crawling out of the woodwork, and becoming increasingly shrill.
Dumb, really. All she had to do was stick to the mumbling DNC template, and keep diverting any mention of energy policy to an attack on Bush and the oil companies. But NO, she has to go the one step further and indulge in petulant egoism.
Ha. Best thing she could possibly do, for the country especially. I hope she keeps popping up with the "Hoax" line every time.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
No mater what we won't drill, so says the Dems. As I said before they love these high prices and want them higher, it controls the people and makes them dependent on the government for help!
This says it all,,
No mater what we won't drill, so says the Dems. As I said before they love these high prices and want them higher, it controls the people and makes them dependent on the government for help!
This says it all,,
Yes, the direction Obama's new ad campaign is taking seeks to work the oil angle by routing any potential relief from the crisis THROUGH the government.
He is now promising a $1000 tax credit to "working middle class families" to help them buy gas.
No mention of addressing the problem directly, just the usual "fast track" for alternative energy sources... Is there some sort of "slow track" of "medium track" legislation that energy exploration, development and marketing is currently limited to? LOL, I think he's confusing "Fast Track" legislation for executing treaties with government pouring money into research and development!
In every case, the solution is more government and less effort from the individual citizen, company, or industry.
Consistent. Parsing the action items he's now listing on his site and in his ads, I must admit that I see little sign of the drift toward the center I had earlier noted.
Obama's positions might SOUND like he's in favor of addressing the oil crisis, but the path he supports is dead center of the highway to oblivion mapped out by Pelossi and Company.
Head in the clouds, thoughts on the distant future, eyes on the horizon...
And walking all over the rest of us who are stuck in the actual here and now.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
[quote]
My first reaction to Pelosi's recent congressional energy rebellion was to say, "What an anti-American, anti-reality-based form of representation." To pass the buck back onto the president to "exhaust other remedies" when he took the first step in opening the way for drilling is not only a relinquishing of congressional duties but also another deliberate political avoidance to help the majority of Americans. Two years ago, before taking the congressional helm, Pelosi blamed the president for the energy crisis. Now, instead of providing any solutions at all, she still is blaming the president. Instead of spending her valuable time leading Congress in resolving our energy crisis, she's kicking off a national tour to support her new book, "Know Your Power: A Message to America's Daughters." Is she in political la-la land?! [quote]
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
While GW is still in office, the Dems are not going to do anything about oil prices. Nothing, Nada, Zip. More fuel for Obama's fire.
Unfortunately, you are probably correct.
The American people, though irate at high gas prices, have been successfully distracted onto the usual scapegoats.
The next step will be to institute a series of punitive taxes aimed at the scapegoats while simultaneously keeping up the drumbeat of "its all Bush's fault".
Meanwhile, the voters will RETURN the problems to office in the Congress.
The equation is further distorted by the lopsided vulnerability of Republican Senate seats - this opens up this sort of strategy even further.
The strategy RELIES on naive, ill-informed fish, er, voters, falling for the bait.
My cynical side (which is almost my whole being, sadly) agrees with their calculation. I suspect Pelossi & Co. have arrived at a winning strategy, and that they will successfully return themselves to power - and in fact are likely to further expand their power, even IF they don't manage to add the White House to their trophy case.
We WILL get the Government we deserve.
We always do.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
It's funny, I have just seen a commercial approved by John Dingell yesterday where they had a factory worker saying that he restored overtime and extended unemployment benefits along with alternative energy mumbo jumbo.
My first thoughts were, how many factory workers even work overtime anymore and extending unemployment benefits is nice, but it would be more nice for these people to have a job.
As far as getting what we deserve, you are correct. Most need the government Nippple.
__________________
2006 GT Tungsten Grey 5 spd, Xcal2/Pipeline CAI, Powerhouse tune. Spoiler delete. Front Speakers:Infinity 6812CF;Blaupunkt GTc652. Rear:Infinity Kappa 682.7CF. H/U:Alpine CDA-9885. Alpine MRP-F250 amp. Sequentials. President of the Splash guard registry. On Deck: Motoblue UDP's.
It's funny, I have just seen a commercial approved by John Dingell yesterday where they had a factory worker saying that he restored overtime and extended unemployment benefits along with alternative energy mumbo jumbo.
My first thoughts were, how many factory workers even work overtime anymore and extending unemployment benefits is nice, but it would be more nice for these people to have a job.
As far as getting what we deserve, you are correct. Most need the government Nippple.
I think extending unemployment payment is a HUGE mistake. Most of the people I know (and have known) who were on unemployment stayed on it as long as they could , using it as a vacation. Then they scrambled to find work when their benefits ran out and the bills started backing up. Sure, you have to "prove" you are actively looking for work to get the benefits, but honestly it is SO easy to fake or fill the required "positions" with job searches you know you will not be hired for. 15 minutes of creative work a week so you get a paycheck.
IMHO if you have not found a job in the standard "unemployment benefits" time frame, the chances of you finding one AFTER that within the extended time period are unlikely for most casts. So if you can't find pay working for someone else, people need to use their creativity and work for themselves.
Life is hard, but it is time American workers stop thinking working is a RIGHT, working for someone else is a RIGHT, and if you don't have a job the government (or in this case your former employer) owes you a living. What made the United States so great is the idea of you pulling YOURSELF up by your boot straps and doing what needs to be done. MAKE yourself needed, either by filling a job others need filled, or by going into business for yourself.
It is not EASY, and is DARN HARD in fact. But you are right, we have become a society where the nipple is what is latched onto, not self reliance and personal drive. Well that is unless you work hard and build your business, then you are looked at as a "bad guy" because you now have something someone else doesn't have.
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
Senate Gets Serious About Oil 
