My understanding is that the region in question is part of Georgia and the inhabitants are rebels who WNAT to break that part of the country away from Georgia and rejoin Russia. For their part, Russia has granted Russian citizenship to the rebels, even though they live in Georgia, not Russia. In other words, it would be like some of the citizens of San Francisco decided they wanted to be part of France, not the United States, and started fighting to break away from America. Further, it would be like France granting French citizenship to these folks without them ever leaving San Francisco. Finally, imagine if American troops went to stop the rebellion in San Francisco and France responded by sending troops into the United States to protect its 'citizens' - the rebels in San Francisco who do not live in France.
The Russians are invading a sovereign nation. They are doing it under the guise of 'protecting' their so-called citizens - who are actually rebels against the government of that sovereign nation. The Ruskies are manipulating the situation in the tradition of the good little KGB agent that Putin is..er...was.
If KS weren't so busy being 'clever', I'm sure he could explain the next part better than I. As he is more concerned with bashing Bush/Cheney (my complete disdain for Bush is no secret, so I can understand that impulse), I will give it a shot. The Bush connection (the way I see it) is that we (right or wrong) invaded a sovereign nation (Iraq) without clear provocation. Further, when no weapons of mass destruction were found and the idea of an Al Queda/Saddam connection was found to have no basis in fact, the justification (true or not) that Bush fell back on was that invading was the right thing to do in order to liberate people who were being oppressed. The Russians can use that same argument - the Georgians are oppressing the rebels by having the audacity of trying to stop them from rebelling. Is the Georgian government oppressive? I have no clue and it doesn't really matter. Right or wrong, Iraq set a precedent. We can hardly chide Russia for invading a sovereign nation without direct, clear provocation under the justification of freeing oppressed people when we are still involved in a war that was begun with that exact justification. Now, I am aware that this is likely a bit of a simplification, but that's the basics.
Yes, and you may recall that Russia is also backing Iran - for which this would also be construed as an extension of power on another front.
Georgia is a Western-leaning democracy, you may recall the meddling that Russia's been engaging in (in addition to our own) to keep them from joining NATO as a European Democracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albroswift
So then why, I ask again, did the Georgians bomb the $hit out of their own territory?
Again, putting words in my mouth. If by my saying that I side with the Ruskies on this one makes me a "dictator preferrer" so the same could be said about anyone who criticizes a(ny) democracy's dealings with a "non democracy".
Anyway, I guess that answers the question as to weather we agree.
If by your examination of my logic you're saying I'm a "democracy preferrer" on would side with a Democracy against any Dictatorship, you are correct.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
My understanding is that the region in question is part of Georgia and the inhabitants are rebels who WNAT to break that part of the country away from Georgia and rejoin Russia. For their part, Russia has granted Russian citizenship to the rebels, even though they live in Georgia, not Russia. In other words, it would be like some of the citizens of San Francisco decided they wanted to be part of France, not the United States, and started fighting to break away from America. Further, it would be like France granting French citizenship to these folks without them ever leaving San Francisco. Finally, imagine if American troops went to stop the rebellion in San Francisco and France responded by sending troops into the United States to protect its 'citizens' - the rebels in San Francisco who do not live in France.
The Russians are invading a sovereign nation. They are doing it under the guise of 'protecting' their so-called citizens - who are actually rebels against the government of that sovereign nation. The Ruskies are manipulating the situation in the tradition of the good little KGB agent that Putin is..er...was.
If KS weren't so busy being 'clever', I'm sure he could explain the next part better than I. As he is more concerned with bashing Bush/Cheney (my complete disdain for Bush is no secret, so I can understand that impulse), I will give it a shot. The Bush connection (the way I see it) is that we (right or wrong) invaded a sovereign nation (Iraq) without clear provocation. Further, when no weapons of mass destruction were found and the idea of an Al Queda/Saddam connection was found to have no basis in fact, the justification (true or not) that Bush fell back on was that invading was the right thing to do in order to liberate people who were being oppressed. The Russians can use that same argument - the Georgians are oppressing the rebels by having the audacity of trying to stop them from rebelling. Is the Georgian government oppressive? I have no clue and it doesn't really matter. Right or wrong, Iraq set a precedent. We can hardly chide Russia for invading a sovereign nation without direct, clear provocation under the justification of freeing oppressed people when we are still involved in a war that was begun with that exact justification. Now, I am aware that this is likely a bit of a simplification, but that's the basics.
Basically, then, we are between a rock and a hard place on this one. We can't argue that Russia is doing the 'wrong' thing because we have done something similar in Iraq. So, do we stand up for our ally (Georgia) on the world stage and look like hypocrites for defending their actions with regard to the rebels? Do we criticize an ally (Georgia) for attempting to quell an uprising in their own country to avoid critizing the Russians? Do we admit that, no matter what our stance is, there is nothing much we can do? Do we send military resources to Georgia and risk conflict or even all-out war with a major nuclear power? Kind of an akward situation to be in.
Well said, a good point, and done without flaming anyone with a different view. The only point I would try to make is that Georgia, wether within her rights or not, did Shell/ Missle/ Bomb the crap out of the S. Ossetia (their own?) people, and that appears to have given Russia the excuse they have been waiting for to blow the pee out of Georgia. And the Georgia officials must have known this would happen.
__________________
“If it rolls, floats, flies or shoots, runs on gasoline or gunpowder, goes fast or shoots a big bullet and makes lots of noise, thus producing torque and recoil — it’s cool.” --Sterling Moss, Society of Torque and Recoil OhFour GT Drop top * Kenne Bell 9PSI I/C * Ford Racing 03 Cobra aluminum radiator * Full length welded subframe connectors * Couple of AutoMeter gauges, Grill delete kit * ZR3 Active laser countermeasures front and rear * Escort X50 blue radar detector *Clifford RSX3.5 Alarm
Well said, a good point, and done without flaming anyone with a different view. The only point I would try to make is that Georgia, wether within her rights or not, did Shell/ Missle/ Bomb the crap out of the S. Ossetia (their own?) people, and that appears to have given Russia the excuse they have been waiting for to blow the pee out of Georgia. And the Georgia officials must have known this would happen.
Because since 1992, we've had their backs, and they reciprocated by sending the 3rd largest contingent of troops into Iraq.
They didn't believe we were so weak that we couldn't defend them.
Russia has gone FAR past S. Ossetia and is entering Georgia to overthrow the gov't.
Putin would not have done this without the understanding that we can do nothing but whine.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
If by your examination of my logic you're saying I'm a "democracy preferrer" on would side with a Democracy against any Dictatorship, you are correct.
What if the Democracy was clearly in the wrong, as is pointed out about our Replubic from time to time, on various issues, even on these very pages? I'm sure I need not give examples. Does pointing these wrongs out make one a "commie lover"? Boy, I hope not.
Democracy is always preffered, but not always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
Because since 1992, we've had their backs, and they reciprocated by sending the 3rd largest contingent of troops into Iraq.
They didn't believe we were so weak that we couldn't defend them.
Russia has gone FAR past S. Ossetia and is entering Georgia to overthrow the gov't.
Putin would not have done this without the understanding that we can do nothing but whine.
So Puten knew we would do nothing but Georgia thought we would drop everything and run to their aid? Why now, after 14 years, did they act? Had they verbalized a timeline, asked the US, given a deadline, taken any number of steps that we (the US) are expected of and or held to by the world community before we start dropping bombs? Just curious.
__________________
“If it rolls, floats, flies or shoots, runs on gasoline or gunpowder, goes fast or shoots a big bullet and makes lots of noise, thus producing torque and recoil — it’s cool.” --Sterling Moss, Society of Torque and Recoil OhFour GT Drop top * Kenne Bell 9PSI I/C * Ford Racing 03 Cobra aluminum radiator * Full length welded subframe connectors * Couple of AutoMeter gauges, Grill delete kit * ZR3 Active laser countermeasures front and rear * Escort X50 blue radar detector *Clifford RSX3.5 Alarm
What if the Democracy was clearly in the wrong, as is pointed out about our Replubic from time to time, on various issues, even on these very pages? I'm sure I need not give examples. Does pointing these wrongs out make one a "commie lover"? Boy, I hope not.
Democracy is always preffered, but not always right.
When an allied Democracy is being invaded by the likes of Putin, and you take Putin's side, then you are a least a KGB lover, if not a Commie lover!
Quote:
Originally Posted by albroswift
So Puten knew we would do nothing but Georgia thought we would drop everything and run to their aid? Why now, after 14 years, did they act? Had they verbalized a timeline, asked the US, given a deadline, taken any number of steps that we (the US) are expected of and or held to by the world community before we start dropping bombs? Just curious.
They obviously had hoped that with Putin and Bush staring deeply into each others eyes in China, they could retake the province fait-accompli.
Plus, with the price of gasoline so high, they desperately need the revenue from the oil.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
So let's see...
KGB lover, Commie Lover, Dictatorship over Democracy guy, am I missing anything?
yea, that pretty much sums me up. Might as well call me a Camaro driver.
Stupid, too, for even posting on this thread.
See ya later.
Oh yea, I forgot, anti-military.
__________________
“If it rolls, floats, flies or shoots, runs on gasoline or gunpowder, goes fast or shoots a big bullet and makes lots of noise, thus producing torque and recoil — it’s cool.” --Sterling Moss, Society of Torque and Recoil OhFour GT Drop top * Kenne Bell 9PSI I/C * Ford Racing 03 Cobra aluminum radiator * Full length welded subframe connectors * Couple of AutoMeter gauges, Grill delete kit * ZR3 Active laser countermeasures front and rear * Escort X50 blue radar detector *Clifford RSX3.5 Alarm
So let's see...
KGB lover, Commie Lover, Dictatorship over Democracy guy, am I missing anything?
yea, that pretty much sums me up. Might as well call me a Camaro driver.
Stupid, too, for even posting on this thread.
See ya later.
Perhaps if you'd looked at a map , you'd said you'd been following the situation for quite some time, and then took Putin's side.
That's the position you took. If you'd like to change your position in light of new information, I promise I won't call you a flip-flopper!
________________________________
No one thought Russia would do something like that. Which is why Putin is citing the Bush doctrine with a sneer, and then thowing in his "human rights" case, which is also an extension of his position that Human Rights is a joke.
He's not only giving us the finger, but the "up-yours" gesture as well.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
"Russia exploits US weakness, destroys US ally while Bush-McCain whine"
It's amazing how in-fighting in Eastern European turns into liberal spin by attaching a provocative caption and no substantive comment to the link posted. Simple fishing for a reaction.
Simply put, Georigia tried to forcefully subdue a couple little areas within its borders that are pro-Russian that wanted to break away, and Russia put one foot down on Georgia and is ready to place the other foot down.
"Russia exploits US weakness, destroys US ally while Bush-McCain whine"
It's amazing how in-fighting in Eastern European turns into liberal spin by attaching a provocative caption and no substantive comment to the link posted. Simple fishing for a reaction.
Simply put, Georigia tried to forcefully subdue a couple little areas within its borders that are pro-Russian that wanted to break away, and Russia put one foot down on Georgia and is ready to place the other foot down.
I don't reckon you follow strategic assets well, huh?
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
I don't reckon you follow strategic assets well, huh?
I dont reckon its possible to stop injecting liberal political spin into a topic that has very little to do with US politics huh?
Georgia is a strategic asset to Russia and will always be. The military action by Georgia regarding its two provinces was all Russia felt was needed to retake Georgia. It's a scene that may likely play out with other former states that comprised the Soviet Union
I dont reckon its possible to stop injecting liberal political spin into a topic that has very little to do with US politics huh?
Georgia is a strategic asset to Russia and will always be. The military action by Georgia regarding its two provinces was all Russia felt was needed to retake Georgia. It's a scene that may likely play out with other former states that comprised the Soviet Union
Agreed. But keep in mind that it is also a strategic resource for the United States as well. They (Georgia) also wanted to become a member of NATO... which would have given them more "protection" (even if just on paper) than they have had since the fall of the Soviet Union.
I feel that what Russia did by granting citizens of another country "Russian Citizenship" was wrong but it is not a new thing. There are other peoples who have duel citizenship around the world. But I don't think it should be used as an excuse to invade a country.
Those citizens who want to leave their country and become Russian should be allowed to leave Georgia and its territories. But at least to me that is not what Russia wants, they want to reclaim land and are using the "people" as an excuse. Sorry, take the PEOPLE then, and leave the land.
Examples have been given concerning the United States and they have been a little off, but the base idea is correct. If (for instance) people in California were given "Mexican Citizenship" even though California is NOT a part of Mexico, and then a group of Californian people decided to succeed from the United States and BECOME part of Mexico again and the United States sent troops to stop this from happening and people were fighting over it.... Mexico would then send troops to "stop the fighting" but not stop at that, the would also invade Arizona and other States.
The whole thing is messed up IMHO, and about the resources and land, NOT the people. Russia is using the people as an excuse to reclaim land and resources they lost when the Soviet Union fell. And the real problem is that this sets the stage for other actions aimed at former Soviet States.
Trying to equate it to what the US did concerning Iraq is just a ploy and the actions are not even close to being the same. People think the US is interested in "Empire Building"? LOL I think not. We are "team building" where each nation has its own government and say in matters. Russia on the other hand is ALL about Empire Building. They lulled those who want to believe that with talking and rational thinking all the nations of the world can get along and not gobble up smaller nations.
Russia didn't stop being Russia, they just sat it out for a bit and gained some "street cred" among their former enemies... now they are coming out swinging. And if folks think this is the end of it, think again.
.......... then again I could be wrong......
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
So its Bush or Bush Senior, though since B-One made kissy-face with Billary, he's sort of acceptable (feeble, too, but playing straight man for Billary was the biggie).
Rove is now just another paid guest on talk shows, and Cheney is now the invisible dying man, so Bush is the only target in town.
This rejection of Billary and rewriting of Carter's "legacy" to set up the talking points for Obama is creepy, though.
Obama COULD have come into office without the Billary and Carter baggage, and even seperate from the Pelossi/Reid slime, but he's now welded to it.
Bad strategy. Sorting all this out will be SO distracting that his own policy initiatives will be blurry and ineffective...
What am I saying?
Say, Obama really DOES look just like Carter (who really WAS a successful, progressive President) after all! And isn't it just SWEET, how Billary and Obama are now sharing the spotlight and uniting to save the nation!
Then there's John Kerry, that tall, commanding leader - will Barack select him as Vice President? Or Secretary of State?
And there's that towering giant of environmental verities, Al Gore...
Well, it goes without saying that Global Warming will cease the very day they swear in President Obama...
If not 10 years before, LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
Yes, and you may recall that Russia is also backing Iran - for which this would also be construed as an extension of power on another front.
Georgia is a Western-leaning democracy, you may recall the meddling that Russia's been engaging in (in addition to our own) to keep them from joining NATO as a European Democracy.
If by your examination of my logic you're saying I'm a "democracy preferrer" on would side with a Democracy against any Dictatorship, you are correct.
Georgia is an active American ally, who sent a Georgian Army Brigade to Iraq to fight and work with our troops there.
I don't recall the US blocking Georgia from joining NATO - the reverse, in fact. They share a strategicaly important border with another NATO member, Turkey, and from my recent research, Turkey is VERY upset at the troubles along their northern borders involving a country which THEY consider a key ally.
Turkey maintains a powerful military presence along that border, and always has. This includes a heavy Corps (including several armored divisions) and a string of modern military bases just south of their common border.
If we have forgotten this, I'm sure the Russians have not.
Turkey WOULD seek support within NATO for any move they might make, but I would be surprised if they sat by and allowed Georgia to fall to the Russians.
Georgia is small, but strategically important as well because it features about the only major oil pipeline and shipping terminal in the area NOT controlled by the Russians. This COULD be nothing more than a coincidence, but those sorts of coincidences often turn into strategic decisions involving tanks and bombers (Kuwait of course springs to mind, KS, before you bring that up).
Russia's strength now is in contrast to her weakness in the waning days of the Soviet empire. For a long time Russians had been convinced that most of the components of their Empire were really just a drain on their resources rather than a benefit, and to some extent that prophecy has been fulfilled - Russia is now much stronger economically than they were.
But dreams of empire die hard. Had Putin ruled instead of Gorbachev during the Reagan years, WOULD the Iron Curtain have fallen and the straw Republics of the old Soviet been set free? Doubtful. Putin has shown more cleverness in building his ruling party, but it looks more like the old Red Line every day.
The lashing of Georgia serves many purposes, not least of them the emasculating of American influence in the region.
The Bush administration, has had the worst outcome from adventures like the Invasion of Iraq - however tempered by fortunate happy accidents like the tar-baby stickiness that has centered much of the world's terrorist attention on that central location - and now we see more defects in the grand strategy: By welding together an Iraqi Coalition that contains nations in precarious locations around the perimeter of Russia, links have been forged that might require more pain to maintain than they are worth.
I believe that the Georgians are the ones doing the bleeding, but the real target is located thousands of miles away across the Atlantic ocean in the District of Columbia!
I also believe the Russians will now wind this down and occupy the two portions of Georgia that they have been running anyway since 1993.
No one, however, will soon forget the harsh lesson, and THAT was the primary purpose - asserting a sphere of influence, and demonstrating American and NATO weakness.
This dustup went to the Russians, no doubt about it.
(Map of the overall situation at the point where the USSR dissolved, and the mess left behind, including Civil War in most of the ex-Soviet countries in the regio: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ussrfall.htm ).
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Last edited by countymounty; 08-13-2008 at 06:42 PM.
Reason: merge
In other words, it would be like some of the citizens of San Francisco decided they wanted to be part of France, not the United States, and started fighting to break away from America. Further, it would be like France granting French citizenship to these folks without them ever leaving San Francisco. Finally, imagine if American troops went to stop the rebellion in San Francisco and France responded by sending troops into the United States to protect its 'citizens' - the rebels in San Francisco who do not live in France.
Good anology, but I'd add 2 items:
If San Francisco was independent from the US for as long (or longer)as the US was independent from England, as I understand the case is here, S.O. has been independent of Russia and Georgia since before the break-up, no?
Equate "stopping a rebellion" with dropping a large amount of bombs/ Rockets in the middle of S.F., As was done in S.O.
"The conflict there originated decades ago in 1920, when South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia, then a Soviet Republic. Thousands of people were killed when the Georgian government put down the rebellion. In 1921, the Soviet army invaded Georgia and declared South Ossetia to be an autonomous region within Georgia. During the Soviet period, South Ossetians were granted a degree of autonomy with regard to language and education. In 1989, a nationalist group, the Popular Front, came to power in South Ossetia and demanded the region be made an autonomous republic. The Georgian government rejected this demand. In 1990, South Ossetia declared independence anyway, leading to armed conflict. A ceasefire was brokered by Russia in 1992. Tensions again increased in June 2004, when democratically elected Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili took steps toward reintegrating South Ossetia."
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for dropping rockets and bombs on people who deserve it. If there was a rebellion going on in S.O., it had been going on for quite some time (years? Decades?) not sure. Not a lot of news coverage in that part of the world (By Russian design or by Georgian design?). But why attack now? Looks like it is about over anyway. Back to the Olympics.
__________________
“If it rolls, floats, flies or shoots, runs on gasoline or gunpowder, goes fast or shoots a big bullet and makes lots of noise, thus producing torque and recoil — it’s cool.” --Sterling Moss, Society of Torque and Recoil OhFour GT Drop top * Kenne Bell 9PSI I/C * Ford Racing 03 Cobra aluminum radiator * Full length welded subframe connectors * Couple of AutoMeter gauges, Grill delete kit * ZR3 Active laser countermeasures front and rear * Escort X50 blue radar detector *Clifford RSX3.5 Alarm
Not quite 200 years - the REPUBLIC of Georgia was ruled by Moscow for 200 years, but that ended with the Soviet dissolution. All the Republics went their seperate ways.
What is happening here is something different. Soon after Georgia (and the other several dozen Republics and subject countries of the Soviet Bloc) became independent, some Russian minorities living in 2 of its provinces decided they wanted to stir up trouble. This was about 15 years ago. At that time, Georgia was far too weak to do much, and Russia just stepped in and started posting troops in the two provinces about 10 years ago. They never STOPPED being part of Georgia, they just fell under the influence of Russia. (The strategic Georgian oil pipeline was cited at the time as the long-term goal for Russia in that case). Russia called these troops "peacekeepers", but given the facts of the case, they were just as much "occupiers" as our own troops once were in Iraq, with only the transplanted Russian minority happy with their presence.
Over the intervening 15 years, Georgia re-organized itself as a Western democracy, forged an alliance with NATO and the United States, and participated fully as a member of the Coalition fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite their troubles back home with the Russians, they continued to contain their own internal unrest while they sent their top brigade to Iraq.
Similar low-grade civil wars have been flaring up in MOST of the ex-Soviet republics since the break-up, fanned by such activists as Putin, taking advantage of the millions of re-located Russians settled in the conquered territories since WWI (Stalin was a huge proponent of this "Russification" program, including genocide where a little extra room was needed). Putin's operatives have been very aggressive, pulling the ocassional assassination attempt on anyone posing a threat to their future plans (such as poisoning the PM of the Ukraine).
Georgia strikes me as the perfect "test case" for Russia, where they can take virtually no risk and yet carefully gauge the reaction of the West.
If this little adventure turns out well for them (and it seems to be going that direction), I would look for the danger of Russian expansion into these areas to increase dramatically. I attached a map showing the potential flare points in a post above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albroswift
Good anology, but I'd add 2 items:
If San Francisco was independent from the US for as long (or longer)as the US was independent from England, as I understand the case is here, S.O. has been independent of Russia and Georgia since before the break-up, no?
Equate "stopping a rebellion" with dropping a large amount of bombs/ Rockets in the middle of S.F., As was done in S.O.
"The conflict there originated decades ago in 1920, when South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia, then a Soviet Republic. Thousands of people were killed when the Georgian government put down the rebellion. In 1921, the Soviet army invaded Georgia and declared South Ossetia to be an autonomous region within Georgia. During the Soviet period, South Ossetians were granted a degree of autonomy with regard to language and education. In 1989, a nationalist group, the Popular Front, came to power in South Ossetia and demanded the region be made an autonomous republic. The Georgian government rejected this demand. In 1990, South Ossetia declared independence anyway, leading to armed conflict. A ceasefire was brokered by Russia in 1992. Tensions again increased in June 2004, when democratically elected Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili took steps toward reintegrating South Ossetia."
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for dropping rockets and bombs on people who deserve it. If there was a rebellion going on in S.O., it had been going on for quite some time (years? Decades?) not sure. Not a lot of news coverage in that part of the world (By Russian design or by Georgian design?). But why attack now? Looks like it is about over anyway. Back to the Olympics.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
So let's see...
KGB lover, Commie Lover, Dictatorship over Democracy guy, am I missing anything?
yea, that pretty much sums me up. Might as well call me a Camaro driver.
Stupid, too, for even posting on this thread.
See ya later.
, you'd said you'd been following the situation for quite some time, and then took Putin's side. 
