how are you gonna start a poll on a thread and then recommend it be shut down?
__________________
Sometimes I think that government fits that old-fashioned definition of a baby: An alimentary canal with an appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
- Ronald Reagan
Then we shall not take anything you say seriously.
__________________
Bruce
Used to have a2002 GT Convertible black / tan top (Stored in winters ) delivered May 18th 2002.
C&L 85mm MAF with K&N
Grille eliminator kit with red/white/blue Pony
Pony fender emblems in place of GT's
Steeda Tri-Ax-Underdrive-timing adjuster
MagnaFlow catback exhaust 3-1/2" tips
H&R Springs & Bilsteins shocks/struts
[quote=Mustangdewd3.8
Some of you need to grow the **** up. Most of you are like the guy who brings a gun to fight a boxer.
If I had to pick who won this lil argument I would say there could be no winner, but KS defiently ******* out did himself and diefnelty proved the point better here than any other man. to the point where nothing had anything to say but Mishalfs and the other side of the story deal.
This thread should be closed now. It's come to the point whre it's not stupid, it's just eating itself. It's over.
and captain "buttplug" sealed the deal. this is done. Just ******* forget it. Go tot he poll in november and settle it there. where the rest of the 30% of the population that votes.[/QUOTE]
Who needs to grow up? Looks to me like the cursing is a bit childish as well as the temper. Plus KS didn't prove squat. He did nothing but put quotes from websites up. That proves nothing. You believe he did because you lean his way. He started from swiftboat vets are liars and then went to defending the honor of guys like his grandfather Desparation is more like it. He's probably searching every little nook and cranny of the net as I type this to prove some desparate point that he knows more than the rest of us military types when it comes to writing fitreps, flying planes, writing awards, and marching. He'll post a whole page of website quotes because that's all he's got. Fun stuff
Just received this via e-mail. Something else for Thurman to debunk. Enjoy!
There were 39 combat related killings
in Iraq during the month of January.....
In the fair city of Detroit there were
35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.
When some claim President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, consider the following ...
FDR.. (Democrat)
led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japandid.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman... (Democrat)
finished that war and started one in Korea,
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,334 per year.
John F. Kennedy... (Democrat)
started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnson... (Democrat)
turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton.. (Democrat)
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent,
Bosnia never attacked us. (we are STILL there)
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter
three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
In the two years since terrorists attacked us
President Bush has ...
liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban,
crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Libya,
Iran and North Korea
without firing a shot,
and captured a terrorist who slaughtered
300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats (and media) are complaining
about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation (against American men, women and children).
We've been looking for evidence of
chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to
find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division
and the Marines to destroy the Medina
Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to
call the police after his Oldsmobile
sank at Chappaquiddick.
It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing the best job he knows how!
The Military is doing a superb job, given the circumstances!
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.
Haha i read that post about the buttplug thing and left yall to decide which side to take . i just laughed and went downstairs and made some popcorn and didnt act childish on a car website ."because thats what buttplugs do the week after they get their lil pubic hairs." :thumbup
Lets get sappy here people...."together, we can prevent forest fires, and political threads"
__________________
A man that gives up a little freedom, for a little security, will have neither, and deserves neither. ~ Benjamin Franklin
Shipmates is a strange word in this case… you DO know they are BOATS (Swift Boats) right? And you DO know that “shipmates” would then indicate all those who lived on the SHIP that served as their base camp, right? (That is until they started using ground bases cut from the jungle.)
Actually I didn’t prove YOUR point… but you just proved MINE… AGAIN.
Put a sock in it. That is NOT what I was doing, and anyone with HALF a brain knows that.
I was not claiming that NO soldiers earned their medals, I was pointing out the TRUTH about the vast majority of medals “earned” and “awarded”. You can play your childish, ignorant, and totally asinine games, but again you are trying to play them with the wrong man. Go try to twist the words of someone else or claim they are saying something they are not, but don’t do that crap with me.
Heck, since I have actually SERVED my country and have been awarded medals myself (as well as submitted soldiers for them), that puts me in a MUCH better position to talk about the issues than someone who it appears has not served a day in his life, nor experienced any of the issues involved first hand.
And the “division” being caused here, and elsewhere is NOT being done by “Bush”. On THIS forum, it is being caused directly by YOU. When this began, I still liked you… now…..
You simply don’t know when to shut your mouth. But wait, I am sure you will respond with another 10 posts copying other “sources” on information that means nothing more than you found some place that wrote what you want to believe. Congratulations, you have mastered the art of Internet Searches and cut and paste techniques. But sorry fellah, you can find as many “sources” and “articles” backing ANY issue, it does not mean that they are correct.
It does seem though that you fail to possess any first hand knowledge on any of the issues you continue to post about here, and lack a single original or self induced thought. Want a cracker?
n a conference call with reporters arranged by aides to the Democratic presidential candidate, Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker said Kerry acted honorably and bravely and was well qualified to be the nation's commander in chief.
"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of swift boats," Baker said.
Additionally, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., that he personally witnessed the battle action for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts.
"He deserved every one of his medals," said Sandusky, a retired computer repairman who drove Kerry's Navy swift boat for nearly three months.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Crewmate Sandusky said Monday, "I was there when he got wounded. I saw the blood. I don't care what Dole said."
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Article Published: Monday, August 23, 2004
kerry campaign
Colorado veteran defends Kerry's war record
By Steven K. Paulson
The Associated Press
Kerry/Edwards 2004
John Kerry poses with crewmates in an undated photo taken during the Vietnam War.
A Colorado veteran who witnessed John Kerry's actions during a Vietnam firefight said today the Democratic presidential challenger deserved both the Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals that he earned.
Jim Russell, now retired and living in Telluride, said his boat was nearby, taking small arms fire, in March, 13, 1969 as he watched Kerry pluck a crewmate from the water upstream.
Kerry was wounded in the right arm. He earned a third Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for his efforts, according to military records provided by the Kerry campaign and Associated Press stories.
Russell said the casualty rate for boats going upriver during the war was 86 percent.
"You don't put in for a Purple Heart. It's the one medal you don't even want," Russell said during a telephone conference call set up by the Kerry campaign in response to allegations by veteran supporters of President Bush that Kerry exaggerated his military record.
Russell said Navy regulations at the time required troops to report injuries or face court-martial if the wounds got infected.
"To say he should not be getting the Purple Hearts is just ridiculous," he said.
A spokesman for the Bush campaign did not return a phone call seeking comment.
The veteran Bush supporters, through a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, say Kerry didn't deserve his Purple Hearts, lied to get his Bronze Star and Silver Star, wasn't fighting in neutral Cambodia as he said he was and that he unfairly branded all veterans with his 1971 congressional testimony about atrocities in Vietnam.
JIM RUSSELL'S LETTER
Click here to read Russell's letter on John Kerry on the website of the Telluride Daily Planet.
Click here for "Campaign 2004," The Denver Post's exclusive online resource for national and local political news. You'll find an archive of Post coverage, interactives and videos on the campaign, information on candidates, polls, delegate counts and much more.
Click here for an archive of 9NEWS campaign coverage.
One of Kerry's accusers acknowledged he had no documentary proof for his allegation that Kerry fabricated the reports for which the Massachusetts senator received a Bronze Star. The reports said Kerry was under enemy fire when he rescued a fellow crewman.
Russell said the only people who know for sure if they were under fire were in Kerry's boat, and they have supported Kerry's version of what happened that day.
"My direct recollection seeing John Kerry bend over his boat and pick up the soldier out of the water was that his boat was by itself, upriver. The only people that know if he was under fire were the people in that boat and the person in the water. Those are the people that you need to ask that question to, and I think they've already responded to it," Russell said.
Russell said he kept quiet about his role in the fire fight for 35 years, until he saw television ads attacking Kerry's war record and questioning his valor.
"When those ads came out and misrepresented what I knew to be a fact, I had to say something. I found him to be an aggressive, tough, and by-the-book kind of guy when he was in Vietnam," he said.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
This letter is in response to the new attacks on John Kerry's war record by a group calling itself the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." As for most veterans of any war and as people who know me will testify, it is not easy for me to talk about my experiences in Vietnam. However, because of these new ads and, I understand, a new book recently published by an old Charles Colson "Enemies List" hit man, I feel compelled to speak out. Unfortunately, the veterans featured in these attacks are being used by extreme right wing Bush supporters to spread their lies and malign John Kerry.
I feel that most of these veterans who are joining this attack are against Kerry for what he did after he was home from the war than for what he did in the war. If they are against him for his stance against the Vietnam War, that certainly is their right, but to spread lies and malicious innuendos about his time on the rivers of Vietnam is not morally right and does a disservice not only to Kerry, but to all those who served and were wounded or died in that war. The people who are using these veterans for their own means obviously do not care about that. They did the same thing to Senator John McCain and Congressman Max Cleland in 2000 with no remorse or care for the consequences.
To me what is worse is that by their silence, the current administration has not, with any real meaning, disavowed itself or distanced itself in anyway from any of these scurrilous attacks, past or present. I feel that this truly shows the Bush administration for what they really are and ultimately, who is truly responsible for these attacks.
Since I happened to be along on one of the "excursions" where the boats that we were on were attacked and after which Lt. Kerry was cited for valor, I thought it appropriate to give my recollection of that event. This happened on March 13, 1969. I was assigned as Psychological Operation Officer for the Swift Boat group out of An Thoi, Vietnam, from January 1969 to October 1969. As such, I was on No. 43 boat, skippered by Don Droz who was later that year killed by enemy fire. We were second in line while exiting the river and going through the opening in a fish trap when a mine blew up under the No. 3 boat directly in front of us and we started taking small arms fire from the beach. Almost immediately, another mine went off somewhere behind us. All boats, except the one hit, immediately wheeled toward the beach that most of the fire came from (a tactic devised by Lt. Kerry, I later learned) and commenced showering the beaches with so much lead, that it could probably be now mined there. The noise was of course, deafening.
Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years ago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; John Kerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river.
The picture I have in my mind of Kerry bending over from his boat picking some hapless guy out of the river while all hell was breaking loose around us, is a picture based on fact and it cannot be disputed or changed. It's a piece of history drawn in my mind that cannot be redrawn. Sorry, "Swift Boats Veterans for the Truth"- that is the truth.
To say that John Kerry or any of us were on that river to intentionally collect Purple Hearts really does every soldier and sailor, past and present, a disservice. We were going up those rivers (with an ongoing casualty rate of 86 percent at the time) on the orders of the same people who approved of Kerry's medals and who are now joining in the attacks against Kerry. Unbelievable.
I would hope that the American public sees these evil extreme right wing attacks for what they really are and also pray that the veterans being used by these unpatriotic right wing extremist political operatives will divorce themselves immediately from them and speak to the real issues as to why they oppose John Kerry. I just don't understand how anyone can align themselves with those who intentionally and gleefully painted a decorated triple amputee (Max Cleland) from Vietnam as unpatriotic. I think that this is the most disastrous, un-American thing that can be done to our servicemen and women, especially now with another unending war going on. Your ends cannot possibly justify these means. Come on!
Jim Russell
Vietnam veteran,
USN (1966-71)
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Jim Wasser of Illinois, center, John Kerry's second-in-command on a swift boat in Vietnam, talks to people after a Democratic Party of Wisconsin rally of veterans for Kerry on Sunday at the Dane County Coliseum. Kerry never made a bad command decision, Wasser says.
Jim Wasser of Illinois, center, John Kerry's second-in-command on a swift boat in Vietnam, talks to people after a Democratic Party of Wisconsin rally of veterans for Kerry on Sunday at the Dane County Coliseum. Kerry never made a bad command decision, Wasser says.
(Steve Apps - State Journal)
John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam and the leadership he displayed there is what the country needs in a president, a former Kerry crewmate told a crowd of supporters and the curious Sunday at the Dane County Coliseum.
"I was his second-in-command on PCF-44 (one of two swift boats Kerry commanded in Vietnam). We could go from sheer boredom to sheer terror in five seconds," Jim Wasser of Kankakee, Ill., told the gathering of about 350 people. "He never made one bad command decision. ... John Kerry is a man's man, and when he tells you something, you can take it to the bank. John Kerry is a true commander. That's what we need today."
The event was the last of four days of campaign appearances organized by the Democratic Party of Wisconsin featuring veterans supporting their nominee for president. A veteran traveling on the tour said the appearances were planned before ads from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth began raising questions about a 1969 incident in which Kerry was involved. Kerry has condemned the ads as lies.
The tour made 10 Wisconsin stops in four days, coming as polls offered the first hint that the questioning of Kerry's medal-winning service in the Vietnam War was taking a political toll. One poll found more than half the people surveyed had seen or heard of the ad by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that accuses Kerry of lying about events that earned him several medals in Vietnam.
The University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey also found that 44 percent of self-described independent voters found the ad very or somewhat believable.
Ray Boland, state chairman of Wisconsin Veterans for Bush, said he thinks Kerry's anti-war activism after his return from Vietnam has aroused resentment. "I think we're seeing a growing tidal wave of veterans against Kerry sweeping the country," Boland said. "If Vietnam veterans continue to build their opposition to Kerry, they could affect the outcome of this election, against the first Vietnam veteran to run for president."
Wasser condemned the ads, saying, "I know the truth. They are swift boat sailors for George Bush. ... They have absolutely crossed the line." White House spokesman Scott McClellan has denied the Bush-Cheney campaign was behind the ads.
Former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland, who lost his legs and an arm in Vietnam, also appeared at Sunday's rally and leveled accusations at Bush.
The president is so scared of Kerry he's activated a "slime machine to assassinate John Kerry's career, to assassinate John Kerry's character," he said. "They are wrong. John Kerry is going to be the next president of the United States. This is a fight for the soul of our country."
The economy has worsened under Bush, Cleland said, blaming Bush for 60,000 job losses in Wisconsin and the loss of health care insurance for 132,000 Wisconsinites. And Bush is doing nothing about the high cost of prescription drugs, he said.
"John Kerry, when he goes to war, defeats his enemies and brings his boat and his crew back alive," Cleland said. "That's the kind of commander-in-chief I want."
The tour, which began Thursday, also made stops in Superior, Rice Lake, Eau Claire, Arcadia, La Crosse, Wausau, Plover, Green Bay and Waukesha before finishing in Madison.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Only a gay lover would defend a man so desperately,ks it's time for YOU to come out of the closet...
Nope, only a lover of my country.
You're statement indicates a pattern of thought preoccupied with gayness.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Just received this via e-mail. Something else for Thurman to debunk. Enjoy!
There were 39 combat related killings
in Iraq during the month of January.....
In the fair city of Detroit there were
35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.
When some claim President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, consider the following ...
FDR.. (Democrat)
led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japandid.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman... (Democrat)
finished that war and started one in Korea,
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,334 per year.
John F. Kennedy... (Democrat)
started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnson... (Democrat)
turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton.. (Democrat)
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent,
Bosnia never attacked us. (we are STILL there)
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter
three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
In the two years since terrorists attacked us
President Bush has ...
liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban,
crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Libya,
Iran and North Korea
without firing a shot,
and captured a terrorist who slaughtered
300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats (and media) are complaining
about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation (against American men, women and children).
We've been looking for evidence of
chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to
find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division
and the Marines to destroy the Medina
Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to
call the police after his Oldsmobile
sank at Chappaquiddick.
It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing the best job he knows how!
The Military is doing a superb job, given the circumstances!
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.
this will take time. I will hav eplenty of time tomorrow.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Then we shall not take anything you say seriously.
You still don't understand lol.
The first half was not meant to be taken seriously. that's why I pointed that out. You know Humor? Bah, maybe you don't.
After that I added a second half, NOTE CLOSELY That I didn't refer to it as not serious thus it was to be taken seriously. to say we won't take anything I say seriously is just. as easy as I can say... Stupid
Desparation is more like it. He's probably searching every little nook and cranny of the net as I type this to prove some desparate point that he knows more than the rest of us military types when it comes to writing fitreps, flying planes, writing awards, and marching. He'll post a whole page of website quotes because that's all he's got. Fun stuff 
)
i just laughed and went downstairs and made some popcorn and didnt act childish on a car website ."because thats what buttplugs do the week after they get their lil pubic hairs." :thumbup
