Must admit I never warmed to the folded metal styling of the new Cougar.
The new BMW's are origami exercises as well, and I feel their designs are flat to the eye and only a few years old.
Like yourself, I thought it the Cougar was a waste of a valuable nameplate - and not equipped with the German engineering that should have been its birth right. To be so severely modified from its European specifications, softening and isolating the ride, shifter, and steering - then detuning the motor's response, power, and the transmission's gearing - well, it was a big disappointment to those of us who looked for a GTi and found a Fiat instead.
Ford has a habit of doing this - the Capri was a good example.
Hope the Volvo is doing well - I believe you got a much better car than the Mercury, and I'm certain your resale value is far better. Volvo dealers tend to exercise customer service superior to Mercury, as well.
tripleblack
Actually, we picked it up at $7,000 off, traded it for 13,000 after 2 years. Resale was great!
But it really was a $17,000-20,000 car . . . . $24,000 was too much for 170 hp.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
[quote=mac_mogul]If Ford really wants to be saved, they'll bring us the Focus RS!
The tuner crowd would EAT IT UP! And with its numbers and potential, it would EAT THE COMPETITION!
But sadly, its in Europe right now with no sign of crossing the pond...
QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the C1 platform -Mazda3, Volvo s40.
Ford should bring it over as a Mercury Comet, AWD only.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Just recalled an article in which Ford was asked why they aren't considering AWD in the Focus. Mushy answer that mentioned difficulties with the flat floor pan and rear suspension.
Flat floor pans are nice to have to yield more interior foot room in small cars, but NOT a reason to avoid a small hump to route actual mechanical bits that make the car GO! As for the rear suspension, that's lame - no more comment needed.
Upside down car design. Can't make the car AWD when it needs to be so as to preserve a few cubic inches of interior space and protect a mediocre rear suspension design!
These people are nuts.
tripleblack
I've got one, it's got a hump, and you can actually transfer the SVT Cobra running gear . ..
There was something else that precluded AWD . . . don't remember what it was ...
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Lamentably, it seems you are correct. Found this brief article: LINCOLN TOWN CAR/LS: The Ford 500/Mercury Montego platform will do double duty at Lincoln. A mid-size sedan based on the standard 500/Montego platform will replace the rear-drive LS, and be powered by Ford’s new 3.5-liter "Cyclone" V6. Stretch the wheelbase, increase the width slightly, and there’s the replacement for the aging Town Car. It will use a version of Volvo’s transverse V8 and all-wheel-drive. To amortize costs, Ford and Mercury may get their own versions to replace the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis.
The next LS will be a Ford 500 clone, and the new Town Car will be a rebodied version of the Ford 500 with the Volvo V-8 drivetrain.
In a stunning case of reverse logic, they also seem to be about to replace the big Merc and Crown Vic with the slightly oversize Ford 500 as well. The idea seems to be that the change will be cheaper if they can use the same platform for Volvos, Fords, Lincolns and Mercuries (why not Jaguar, one wonders, for a clean sweep).
Lincoln needs rwd, loads of horsepower, and sophisticated luxury appointments. Not this.
Lets see, you test the waters with the Ford 500, it flops, so having proved your point, you move to use the same mid-sized setup to replace your flagship full size cars; your only full size luxury car; a small luxury car created to infuse a little Jaguar luxury into a line rapidly losing its hold on the "luxury" title; and the cars you make that have an absolute lock on the profitable local, state and federal government sales for police and law enforcement cruisers...
Wow.
My position that Ford management is clueless has just been massively reinforced. My suggestion to all the members and non-members of this forum is sell any Ford stock you have and invest it in parts for your Mustangs that the aftermarket will never make, but you're going to be needing in the years ahead - and that "years ahead" part just got a bit shorter...
tripleblack
I'm actually thinking of buying some Ford stock, it's currently cheap as heck, and I can't see the gov't allowing ANOTHER U.S. carmaker going to overseas competition.
Nissan won't be purchasing Ford - Renault owns Nissan. Politically, allowing a French firm to purchase, especially after a German firm purchased Chrysler . .. . I don't think it will happen.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
I've got one, it's got a hump, and you can actually transfer the SVT Cobra running gear . ..
There was something else that precluded AWD . . . don't remember what it was ...
Said there wasn't enough room in the rear without sacrificing "too much" space in the rear cargo area. Also would require a new rear suspension design (no duh).
As I said, "lame excuse".
The "real" reasons probably have more to do with arcane internal politics than anything else. Trying to ascribe logic to these decisions is a waste of time.
tripleblack
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Last I checked, Renault had withdrawn from managing Nissan some time ago - and dumped much of its Nissan stock. They no longer control the Nissan board of directors. Nissan is publicly traded, here and abroad, and I believe the huge majority of its stock is widely held by millions of investors - just like most of the big manufacturers. Unless Ford has sold their Nissan stock to raise money to finance their nutty management decisions, they are one of the largest stockholders in Nissan.
I only put forth the idea that Nissan will end up owning Ford (whereas the reality is that Ford owns a chunk of Nissan) for shock value. The way Ford stock is structured, with a special class of preferred stock almost entirely controlled by the Ford family consitituting control at all levels, this is highly unlikely. Of course, "owning" someone has a seperate street meaning, as well - ie, Nissan may end up "owning" Ford by supplanting them in the American marketplace as #2 to the new #1 (Toyota - GM is dead meat, short of a miracle). Once Ford's sales hit about 10% market share (at current rates of decline, this will happen in 3-4 years), with only about 5% of the car market and a healthier % of the truck market, Ford's role as a major automotive player will be gone, ie, "owned" by the new powers.
KS, please don't place too much faith in the US gov't, and particularly not one with the mix of ideological fixations held by the current administration.
These fools confuse a one-way country lane for a wide open highway every day (look at the trade situation with major trading partners like China and Japan for examples). Ideological blinders, and thick, opague ones at that.
I used to have a neighbor who drove airplanes for Eastern Airlines. The last time they went out on strike, I asked him if he thought it wise to endanger the company, and he laughed, saying that "No way will the government let Eastern Airlines go out of business!"
Ideological blinders. On both sides. The government let it happen, and my friend tries to sell health insurance today.
Just because I lay the blame for Ford's current problems squarely on management doesn't mean that a union or group of unions can't destroy a company as well - they can.
Has anyone really examined the role the American government played in the purchase of Chrysler? Or the quiet acquiescence of the Swedes when the Americans came calling and picked up Volvo and Saab for fire sale prices? Or the Brits when Ford raided for Jaguar and Aston Martin?
Currently, few governments are defending their corporate turf (China and Japan are noteable exceptions to this observation, of course).
I really wouldn't hazard a dime hoping for a government bail-out. Even if it materializes, they will probably Enron or WorldCom it - old stock worth nothing, new stock worth only a little, and probably only for a little while.
tripleblack
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
I'm actually thinking of buying some Ford stock, it's currently cheap as heck, and I can't see the gov't allowing ANOTHER U.S. carmaker going to overseas competition.
Nissan won't be purchasing Ford - Renault owns Nissan. Politically, allowing a French firm to purchase, especially after a German firm purchased Chrysler . .. . I don't think it will happen.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Just watched a 2 Guys Garage episode where they blew thousands of dollars and jazzed up a Focus Z model. Not a bad show, except I noticed they had painted the sad little rear brake DRUMS red. Anything but disc brakes on a late model tuner car thats suppossed to bad ass is lame - and painting them bright red is about as smart as some of the ricers spray painting the duct tape holding their front ends together to match their body color!
Sometimes, it just makes you want to cry.
tripleblack
<!-- / message -->
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Just watched a 2 Guys Garage episode where they blew thousands of dollars and jazzed up a Focus Z model. Not a bad show, except I noticed they had painted the sad little rear brake DRUMS red. Anything but disc brakes on a late model tuner car thats suppossed to bad ass is lame - and painting them bright red is about as smart as some of the ricers spray painting the duct tape holding their front ends together to match their body color!
Sometimes, it just makes you want to cry.
tripleblack
<!-- / message -->
yeah, I've seen a lot of painted drums around here. (They used to come from Ford painted Blue!!)
Never heard of the show, but I don't get much in the way of automotive programming, and what I do get I don't get to watch very much . ..
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
you guys have great ideas and I think are right on the money. I am a ford man all the way but they are pissing me off. ford 500. who cares. the 49er would be a whole lot better, but change the name. the falcon name is being used in australlia and so they wont use that up here. why is it that europe and australlia get the good fords. remember in 85. we got the exp and europe got the rs200.
__________________
crusin cool....now that I have a mustang, crusin fast too.
The only reason for de-fanging cars (the Australian Capri springs to mind) when they're brought up here can only be explained by the mistaken belief of Ford management (demonstrated for years and, I fear, still rampant) that it is THEY who hold the power to create markets, rather than their duty to service them. Autocratic blinders the size of Peterbilts.
tripleblack
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawaki
you guys have great ideas and I think are right on the money. I am a ford man all the way but they are pissing me off. ford 500. who cares. the 49er would be a whole lot better, but change the name. the falcon name is being used in australlia and so they wont use that up here. why is it that europe and australlia get the good fords. remember in 85. we got the exp and europe got the rs200.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
I'm actually thinking of buying some Ford stock, it's currently cheap as heck, and I can't see the gov't allowing ANOTHER U.S. carmaker going to overseas competition.
Nissan won't be purchasing Ford - Renault owns Nissan. Politically, allowing a French firm to purchase, especially after a German firm purchased Chrysler . .. . I don't think it will happen.
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I actually agree with Mr. Coyote on this...about buying Ford stock anyways. Go to Yahoo finance and take a look at the 5 year chart for stock symbol F. The stock price has trended up since early '03 and is just now in a small trough, which I think will be temporary. Management WILL address the situation re pensions/unions, which should get the bond ratings back out of the junk category (and I also happen to believe that their bonds are WAY attractive right now too -- buy low, sell high), and that will improve the perception of the stock also...
But the bottom line is product -- and our Pony Cars are rock solid, dead perfect product. You've heard all the compliments, seen all the heads turn, read all the stories about how long people have waited for their '05s. The demand is still hugely exceeding supply on this vehicle! When it comes to the old adage about Wall Street being more about the sizzle than the steak, you could start a kitchen fire with the Mustang sizzle.
Is it unreasonable to believe that the '06 Pony, all by its gorgeous self, will increase the price of Ford stock by 50-75% in the next year? I for one say, no, not at all unreasonable. Look at the other companies trying to get on the Muscle Car Renaissance bandwagon. Our baby girls are the most attractive cars on the American market today, for looks, for price, for nostalgia, for everythang.
I'm going $2K on Ford early next month when our sorry-assed CD matures. This one is a no-brainer windfall...
__________________
"I may never be famous, but my girls Dixi and Luci sure are."
Dixi Candace: Windveil Blue Stick V6 '05, Steeda CAI w/BBK 70mmTB/hi-flo inlet, XCal2, ASP UP, JBA SS Shorties/Evol, FRPP T-Lok diff, 34/28 mm F/R sway bars, MMR rear LCAs, Monte C. strut bar, Precision 3.73s, Snow H2OCH4O, "Q" grille and tons of Dixi Bling chrome
Don't get me wrong - I believe a person can certainly make money buying (and soon afterward, selling) Ford stock - been there, done that, cashed the dividend check.
But I'd wait to buy the stock until the real feces hits the propeller - wait until CNN/Fox/NBCetc show tens of thousands of Ford employees hitting the unemployment lines - then the obligatory shots through the chain link fence of the closed down or soon-to-be-closed-down factories (since this is going to happen 4 or 5 times in the next year or so, a fairly constant barrage of this type of press coverage will persist for the near future). Somewhere in the middle of this mess it will occur to someone that the one company most dependent on the sale of large vehicles with big motors is Ford - by a considerable margin most dependent. And with oil trending upwards this week to about $68 per barrell (I say trending - more optimistic folks are saying "spiking", implying oil is near some upper limit, which it is not), $3.50 for a gallon of gas is one production cycle at the refineries away.
Coyote wants to buy Ford stock so he can benefit from the publicly funded bailout he believes is iminent. My point to him (and to you) is that the time is not yet ripe to buy that Ford stock. Right now the American manufacturers are buoyed on an orgy of cost-cutting, which is about to run its course. Huge volumes of American-made cars have been dumped into the market, and a temporary market-share bubble has been achieved.
But it will soon become apparent that the companies have paid dearly for every percentage point. Anybody can sell something for no profit - its making and selling a product for a healthy profit that's difficult.
Wait to buy their stock until the big rush of negative press hits, and the inevitable piper is paid for the current orgasmic discounts.
You'll get the stock really cheap then - cheaper than now.
Whether it will recover later will rely on that same management team we've been discussing.
(By the way, the Mustang at less than 200,000 units sold in its first year is less than 5% of the gross sales of Ford - F150 trucks alone sell over 900,000 units, at much larger gross prices and gross profits. Ranger trucks and Explorers sell approximately the same volumes as Mustangs, again with better profit margins. If truck and SUV sales fall (which they are showing signs of doing, the current rebate/employee discount bubble notwithstanding), Ford could sell twice as many mustangs as they did this year and still lose a mountain of money.)
Don't get me wrong - I'm posting all this in hopes that Ford will return to her roots (as she did with the 05 Mustang) and shape up!
tripleblack
Quote:
Originally Posted by zregime
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I actually agree with Mr. Coyote on this...about buying Ford stock anyways. Go to Yahoo finance and take a look at the 5 year chart for stock symbol F. The stock price has trended up since early '03 and is just now in a small trough, which I think will be temporary. Management WILL address the situation re pensions/unions, which should get the bond ratings back out of the junk category (and I also happen to believe that their bonds are WAY attractive right now too -- buy low, sell high), and that will improve the perception of the stock also...
But the bottom line is product -- and our Pony Cars are rock solid, dead perfect product. You've heard all the compliments, seen all the heads turn, read all the stories about how long people have waited for their '05s. The demand is still hugely exceeding supply on this vehicle! When it comes to the old adage about Wall Street being more about the sizzle than the steak, you could start a kitchen fire with the Mustang sizzle.
Is it unreasonable to believe that the '06 Pony, all by its gorgeous self, will increase the price of Ford stock by 50-75% in the next year? I for one say, no, not at all unreasonable. Look at the other companies trying to get on the Muscle Car Renaissance bandwagon. Our baby girls are the most attractive cars on the American market today, for looks, for price, for nostalgia, for everythang.
I'm going $2K on Ford early next month when our sorry-assed CD matures. This one is a no-brainer windfall...
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Don't get me wrong - I believe a person can certainly make money buying (and soon afterward, selling) Ford stock - been there, done that, cashed the dividend check.
But I'd wait to buy the stock until the real feces hits the propeller - wait until CNN/Fox/NBCetc show tens of thousands of Ford employees hitting the unemployment lines - then the obligatory shots through the chain link fence of the closed down or soon-to-be-closed-down factories (since this is going to happen 4 or 5 times in the next year or so, a fairly constant barrage of this type of press coverage will persist for the near future). Somewhere in the middle of this mess it will occur to someone that the one company most dependent on the sale of large vehicles with big motors is Ford - by a considerable margin most dependent. And with oil trending upwards this week to about $68 per barrell (I say trending - more optimistic folks are saying "spiking", implying oil is near some upper limit, which it is not), $3.50 for a gallon of gas is one production cycle at the refineries away.
Coyote wants to buy Ford stock so he can benefit from the publicly funded bailout he believes is iminent. My point to him (and to you) is that the time is not yet ripe to buy that Ford stock. Right now the American manufacturers are buoyed on an orgy of cost-cutting, which is about to run its course. Huge volumes of American-made cars have been dumped into the market, and a temporary market-share bubble has been achieved.
But it will soon become apparent that the companies have paid dearly for every percentage point. Anybody can sell something for no profit - its making and selling a product for a healthy profit that's difficult.
Wait to buy their stock until the big rush of negative press hits, and the inevitable piper is paid for the current orgasmic discounts.
You'll get the stock really cheap then - cheaper than now.
Whether it will recover later will rely on that same management team we've been discussing.
(By the way, the Mustang at less than 200,000 units sold in its first year is less than 5% of the gross sales of Ford - F150 trucks alone sell over 900,000 units, at much larger gross prices and gross profits. Ranger trucks and Explorers sell approximately the same volumes as Mustangs, again with better profit margins. If truck and SUV sales fall (which they are showing signs of doing, the current rebate/employee discount bubble notwithstanding), Ford could sell twice as many mustangs as they did this year and still lose a mountain of money.)
Don't get me wrong - I'm posting all this in hopes that Ford will return to her roots (as she did with the 05 Mustang) and shape up!
tripleblack
OK, that's a reasonable analysis...but give me a number. Where do you see Ford stock bottoming at? 8? 7? 5? Inquiring minds want to know...
__________________
"I may never be famous, but my girls Dixi and Luci sure are."
Dixi Candace: Windveil Blue Stick V6 '05, Steeda CAI w/BBK 70mmTB/hi-flo inlet, XCal2, ASP UP, JBA SS Shorties/Evol, FRPP T-Lok diff, 34/28 mm F/R sway bars, MMR rear LCAs, Monte C. strut bar, Precision 3.73s, Snow H2OCH4O, "Q" grille and tons of Dixi Bling chrome
Wild ass prediction (no guarantees - crystal ball at full gain):
Wait 6 months (end of February - dreary month, good "bottom" pick). Stock will be between $6 and $7 per share.
Probably show spring recovery by May to $8 - $9 range - dump like a hot rock when it does (time sale to cash in on dividend if possible).
Good luck! Hope I'm wrong and their stock is worth $50 due to runaway success of US economy...
tripleblack
I know the wife will be happy to hear that...she is dubious about entering the market for the first time (we've got a 401k, of course, but this is a different gig...all eggs in one basket, so to speak)...it's still hard for me to fathom how a major company, longtime Dow stalwart, etc. can go that low. But you have certainly given me cause for pause. Let's see what happens in the next month or so. Thanks for taking your c-ball out on a limb...
__________________
"I may never be famous, but my girls Dixi and Luci sure are."
Dixi Candace: Windveil Blue Stick V6 '05, Steeda CAI w/BBK 70mmTB/hi-flo inlet, XCal2, ASP UP, JBA SS Shorties/Evol, FRPP T-Lok diff, 34/28 mm F/R sway bars, MMR rear LCAs, Monte C. strut bar, Precision 3.73s, Snow H2OCH4O, "Q" grille and tons of Dixi Bling chrome
