""Seems like every automaker these days claims their cars are 'Made in America.' But the truth is, U.S. automakers still employ 8 out of every 10 autoworkers. Four times more than all the automakers from Japan, Korea and Europe combined,""
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If Imports made money for Americans, it wouldn't be profitable, and it wouldn't contribute to trade deficits.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
I hope some people read this and wake up. I want my nephews and niece to have jobs when they grow up! I've never bought oriental and don't plan on it, ever! Real Americans BUY American!!!
Thank you and have a nice day.
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2002 Mustang GT Convertible, auto, Mineral Grey, Dark Charcoal leather, Bullitt rims.
2007 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4, Dark Shadow Grey/Black cloth, 5.4 FFV.
Some guy posted something about 33% of the Mustang being domestic, I wish I could find the thread again -it's off the new posts screen before I could respond.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
If we change our bookkeeping methods for imported components used to build vehicles in this country, the number of plants operated by the Japanese and Germans would vanish like spit on a griddle!
The day they have to start treating the costs for these high-dollar items (motors, transmission, differentials, etc) in a manner identical to their costs back home, their ability to avoid American income taxes would vanish.
So would about 25% of their pricing power on these items.
Its also important to note that for every assembly plant, there are a dozen parts plants somewhere supplying components. If all we get is the final assembly being done here, with the parts coming from Japan, the bulk of the jobs are being retained by the Japanese while they use the assembly plant for political cover and as a bookkeeping dodge to avoid paying American taxes. Since the sales arms for these huge corporations are also mixing their bottom lines with the assembly plants, the "losses" racked up in the factories is sheltering billions of dollars of income from U.S. taxation.
Everyone (in this country) loses. American companies (who ARE paying their share of taxes) cannot compete efficiently; American workers lose their jobs; the American economy is hurt; and government tax revenues are lower as a result.
And that's just ONE aspect!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
The comparisons between supporting jobs blows away the argument.
""Seems like every automaker these days claims their cars are 'Made in America.' But the truth is, U.S. automakers still employ 8 out of every 10 autoworkers. Four times more than all the automakers from Japan, Korea and Europe combined,""
*************************************
If Imports made money for Americans, it wouldn't be profitable, and it wouldn't contribute to trade deficits.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Some guy posted something about 33% of the Mustang being domestic, I wish I could find the thread again -it's off the new posts screen before I could respond.
Under NAFTA, "North American" content is what is tracked. Since many Mustangs have motors built at the Canadian Windsor plant, and transmissions built in Mexico, this can be misleading.
With Ford about to close the huge Windsor plant, an unforseen result will be more "American" content in Ford cars.
Many of the major parts Ford uses are from part suppliers that have recently set up shop in Mexico and China. Things like alternators, starters, a/c compressors and fuel injectors are now coming from importers.
The 33% number sounds like an example with a Windsor motor, mexican tranny, etc. In reality, many Mustangs have Romeo motors, American made trannys and differentials, etc - thus the local content would be quite high.
Given that the U.S., Canada and Mexico are joined at the economic hip nowadays, there's probably little we can do to affect this trend. If I have to pick between a part made in Mexico by an American parts company seeking low wages, and one made in a Red Army slave shop in China, give me the Mexican item! We can at least count on the plant in Mexico keeping a few illegals away from the border!
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tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Under NAFTA, "North American" content is what is tracked. Since many Mustangs have motors built at the Canadian Windsor plant, and transmissions built in Mexico, this can be misleading.
With Ford about to close the huge Windsor plant, an unforseen result will be more "American" content in Ford cars.
Many of the major parts Ford uses are from part suppliers that have recently set up shop in Mexico and China. Things like alternators, starters, a/c compressors and fuel injectors are now coming from importers.
The 33% number sounds like an example with a Windsor motor, mexican tranny, etc. In reality, many Mustangs have Romeo motors, American made trannys and differentials, etc - thus the local content would be quite high.
Given that the U.S., Canada and Mexico are joined at the economic hip nowadays, there's probably little we can do to affect this trend. If I have to pick between a part made in Mexico by an American parts company seeking low wages, and one made in a Red Army slave shop in China, give me the Mexican item! We can at least count on the plant in Mexico keeping a few illegals away from the border!
The poster was obviously using the v6 as he said the engine was made in Germany . . .
I had no idea the Windsor plant was in Canada! Learn something new every day! (If I'm lucky).
Re: Taxes -given that a lot of money is being made and paid to politicians resulting from Chinese labor, I doubt things will change any time soon -until the rest of us have to keep paying higher state, local, gas, liquor, tobacco, property, and now prostitution taxes to keep things afloat.
It won't be until the entire country is broken that things will change -seems to be cyclical.
Who's going to buy this stuff when no one's making any money?
(I had to start telecommuting 2 days a week as I was paying $450 a month in gas -Nebraska just raised their gas taxes because everyone's limiting their trips -really hurts farmers and ranchers who have to drive several miles just to buy stuff from WalMart -because all the Chinese stuff from WalMart put all the local stores out of business -and of course everyone's property taxes went up, since retail and industrial facilities are almost non-existent anymore. . . I'm really glad I got rid of the 68 Cougar -I can't imagine what I'd be paying now!)
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
"Prostitution taxes"? Been to Reno recently? Whole new slant....
The fact that State and Local governments will sell their souls (and our heritage) to snag a foreign manufacturing facility is another problem for me. We need to slap controls on this government cannibalism at the Federal level! This should fall under "Interstate Commerce" as well as treaty obligations with foreign governments.
The way things work now, states and localities sign away 20 years worth of income up front, and if the factory is closed or sold prior to that, the public gets screwed big time.
What is the total tax bite on gas taxes there now? We need to stop treating fuel as some sort of "sin" commodity like tobacco or alcohol. This prejudice dates from the 1920's and the problems lots of states had coping with the Standard Oil monopoly! Institutionalized idiocy at its most long-lived!
I know gasoline (even at $3 a gallon) is a relative bargain, but with all the other changes since 1973 (costs of living have risen elsewhere in the economy), its a straw that's making the camel's back really creak!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
The poster was obviously using the v6 as he said the engine was made in Germany . . .
I had no idea the Windsor plant was in Canada! Learn something new every day! (If I'm lucky).
Re: Taxes -given that a lot of money is being made and paid to politicians resulting from Chinese labor, I doubt things will change any time soon -until the rest of us have to keep paying higher state, local, gas, liquor, tobacco, property, and now prostitution taxes to keep things afloat.
It won't be until the entire country is broken that things will change -seems to be cyclical.
Who's going to buy this stuff when no one's making any money?
(I had to start telecommuting 2 days a week as I was paying $450 a month in gas -Nebraska just raised their gas taxes because everyone's limiting their trips -really hurts farmers and ranchers who have to drive several miles just to buy stuff from WalMart -because all the Chinese stuff from WalMart put all the local stores out of business -and of course everyone's property taxes went up, since retail and industrial facilities are almost non-existent anymore. . . I'm really glad I got rid of the 68 Cougar -I can't imagine what I'd be paying now!)
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
"Prostitution taxes"? Been to Reno recently? Whole new slant....
The fact that State and Local governments will sell their souls (and our heritage) to snag a foreign manufacturing facility is another problem for me. We need to slap controls on this government cannibalism at the Federal level! This should fall under "Interstate Commerce" as well as treaty obligations with foreign governments.
The way things work now, states and localities sign away 20 years worth of income up front, and if the factory is closed or sold prior to that, the public gets screwed big time.
What is the total tax bite on gas taxes there now? We need to stop treating fuel as some sort of "sin" commodity like tobacco or alcohol. This prejudice dates from the 1920's and the problems lots of states had coping with the Standard Oil monopoly! Institutionalized idiocy at its most long-lived!
I know gasoline (even at $3 a gallon) is a relative bargain, but with all the other changes since 1973 (costs of living have risen elsewhere in the economy), its a straw that's making the camel's back really creak!
Homes, suburbs, and satellite cities are all based on cheap gas. Lately, condos in Downtown Omaha are going for $100,000-$250,000 so the equation is already distorting. It costs more to get an "apartment" close to the city than a home in the suburbs. homes priced at $250,000 - $1,000,000 are not selling well, while my home seems to have gone up $30,000 in the past 9 months. The price of gas is really changing things here in Omaha, anyway.
Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) wants to add IRS agents to go after pimps and prostitutes, -proposed it today (Cynical, as the poorer people get, the more they turn to it) I suspect most would qualify for the EITC -around here anyway -so they would actually cost taxpayers more -between the EITC and the salaries of IRS agents + bureaucracy and court costs.
In any case, pimps will have to keep W-2s on their "employees" and prostitutes would have to keep receipts.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
South Korea has this all taken care off. I hear the only sell Korean cars there, if you want a forein brand, you will have to pay for it (a lot of taxes and tarrifs). Ironic in brazil, the market is also dominated by American cars...because ford and GM make the flex fuel cars ...more than any other make..including VW. We should only sell american cars here and ban the other ones unless they pay serious taxes on them. So if you buy a Chevy Aveo, are you buying an american car or is it still korean? It gets confusing sometimes.
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2006 Deluxe GT 5 Spd Manual Tungsen Grey with black painted stripes, 20 x 10 konig beyonds, kw V3 coil over kit, BMR Chomoly Panhard rod, BMR Boxed Subrames, BMR Upper Strut, BMR lower control arms, BMR Upper Control Arm, Eibach Sway bars, Prothane Eurethane bushing kit. Bassani cat back.w/ x-pipe + hi flow cats, Roush Rear Spoiler, Street Scene Body kit,Street scene grille, 3D carbon louvers, HID system, Raptor Shiftlight with Speed of sound pillar guage, C&L with Preditor 91 Custom Tune
""Seems like every automaker these days claims their cars are 'Made in America.' But the truth is, U.S. automakers still employ 8 out of every 10 autoworkers. Four times more than all the automakers from Japan, Korea and Europe combined,""
*************************************
If Imports made money for Americans, it wouldn't be profitable, and it wouldn't contribute to trade deficits.
What constitutes an 'autoworker' for the purposes of this argument? I bet they are arguing semantics and that by 'autoworker' they mean the folks who are actually assembling the finished product. The person in Taiwan who makes that speedo gauge is not an autoworker but a speedometer assembly tech, or some such - important distinction. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that more "American" brands are assembled in America - meaning the "American" auto companies would employ more of these 'assemblers'. However, I wonder if the picture would be different if we calculated how many auto industry related jobs - meaning manufacturing of parts, etc. - in this country are created or maintained by "American" companies and how many by the Asian companies. Just pointing out an example of how you can make statistics say anything you want as long as you word your statement carefully.
Don't get me wrong, I have no great love for the business practices of Japanese auto companies operating in America. It really burns me that our government has sold us out in deals with them making it perfectly legal for big Japanese companies to openly discriminate against Americans in our own country (not saying that they all do - just that it is legal). If my theory of what is meant by 'autoworker' in this context is true, then the following article becomes quite compelling:
Of course, this is another case where folks can be blinded by statistics. Maybe 90% of the parts that go into making this Toyota really are made in America, but that doesn't mean that the other 10% might not comprise the most expensive 10%.
Homes in downtown Atlanta have experienced strong growth in value, even though the city government is terribly mismanaged and the transit system is backward. However, homes in the surrounding countryside are also still selling briskly. If Atlanta had a better mass transit system and a government capable of managing its own affairs, I suspect the prices inside the loop would be far higher.
I just had an interesting discussion with a gentleman at a restaurant regarding this very topic. He was talking about selling his house (located 8 miles from the city) and moving south to one of the nice neighborhoods near his work. He was exercised over paying almost $3 a gallon for gas, and convinced he would save money by moving.
I did the math for him on a napkin. He would be saving about 3 gallons of gas a week, or 150 gallons a year, worth $450. In exchange, he would be paying 50% more for a house; more than 100% more in taxes on the house; and 100% more for insurance on the house. He would be moving TO a city with a crime rate that routinely runs in the top 3 in the United States (ocassionally DC and Detroit are worse), FROM a town with a crime rate a fraction as bad. His services (water, sewer and garbage collection) would go up about 100% as well. His kids would be moving TO schools that ranked at the bottom of a state that ranks at the bottom, FROM schools that rank at the top of the state ranks, and in the top third or national rankings.
He just laughed and grabbed the napkin, saying it would be good ammo when he talked it over with his wife that night.
Atlanta has a long history of people being stampeded from neighborhoods by developers using the local media and scare tactics, and I am seeing clear signs that this is about to happen again.
The bit about taxing criminal behavior tickles me to death! Reminds me of the arguments about the US "needing" illegal immigrants to help with jobs "nobody else will do"! What morons! And then to link this "logic" to tax receipts!
If anyone wants to get serious about getting the black markets, gray markets, tourists and illegals to start paying their share of taxes, the NRST is still the best way to do it! Legalize prostitution like Nevada has, and tax that too!
But its crazy to try to go after criminals for income taxes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscoyote
Homes, suburbs, and satellite cities are all based on cheap gas. Lately, condos in Downtown Omaha are going for $100,000-$250,000 so the equation is already distorting. It costs more to get an "apartment" close to the city than a home in the suburbs. homes priced at $250,000 - $1,000,000 are not selling well, while my home seems to have gone up $30,000 in the past 9 months. The price of gas is really changing things here in Omaha, anyway.
Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) wants to add IRS agents to go after pimps and prostitutes, -proposed it today (Cynical, as the poorer people get, the more they turn to it) I suspect most would qualify for the EITC -around here anyway -so they would actually cost taxpayers more -between the EITC and the salaries of IRS agents + bureaucracy and court costs.
In any case, pimps will have to keep W-2s on their "employees" and prostitutes would have to keep receipts.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
What constitutes an 'autoworker' for the purposes of this argument? I bet they are arguing semantics and that by 'autoworker' they mean the folks who are actually assembling the finished product. The person in Taiwan who makes that speedo gauge is not an autoworker but a speedometer assembly tech, or some such - important distinction. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that more "American" brands are assembled in America - meaning the "American" auto companies would employ more of these 'assemblers'. However, I wonder if the picture would be different if we calculated how many auto industry related jobs - meaning manufacturing of parts, etc. - in this country are created or maintained by "American" companies and how many by the Asian companies. Just pointing out an example of how you can make statistics say anything you want as long as you word your statement carefully.
Don't get me wrong, I have no great love for the business practices of Japanese auto companies operating in America. It really burns me that our government has sold us out in deals with them making it perfectly legal for big Japanese companies to openly discriminate against Americans in our own country (not saying that they all do - just that it is legal). If my theory of what is meant by 'autoworker' in this context is true, then the following article becomes quite compelling:
Of course, this is another case where folks can be blinded by statistics. Maybe 90% of the parts that go into making this Toyota really are made in America, but that doesn't mean that the other 10% might not comprise the most expensive 10%.
no they're counting suppliers -avg. 7.2 manufacturing related and 2.1 sales-related for domestics. It's in the footnote.
Domestic automakers generally use US suppliers.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
All asian nations (Japan, China, Korea, Malaysia, India, etc.) have extensive trade barriers with very high taxes, tarrifs and expensive inspection fees for the import of any number of items, especially cars.
If the United States were to erect similar barriers, a Honda made in Yokohama would cost roughly a third more than it does now, and their pricing advantage over their American competition would turn into a steep price DISadvatage! Since our market is more profitable to most Japanese companies than their own home markets, such an action would promptly result in Japan lowering those trade barriers, thus creating a level playing field. American companies would find it far easier to sell products there, and so it would go...
Why we allow this is beyond me, and one of the key things I hold against the demicans and republicrats, since both groups have engineered this bizaare state of affairs for decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincitystang
South Korea has this all taken care off. I hear the only sell Korean cars there, if you want a forein brand, you will have to pay for it (a lot of taxes and tarrifs). Ironic in brazil, the market is also dominated by American cars...because ford and GM make the flex fuel cars ...more than any other make..including VW. We should only sell american cars here and ban the other ones unless they pay serious taxes on them. So if you buy a Chevy Aveo, are you buying an american car or is it still korean? It gets confusing sometimes.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
All asian nations (Japan, China, Korea, Malaysia, India, etc.) have extensive trade barriers with very high taxes, tarrifs and expensive inspection fees for the import of any number of items, especially cars.
If the United States were to erect similar barriers, a Honda made in Yokohama would cost roughly a third more than it does now, and their pricing advantage over their American competition would turn into a steep price DISadvatage! Since our market is more profitable to most Japanese companies than their own home markets, such an action would promptly result in Japan lowering those trade barriers, thus creating a level playing field. American companies would find it far easier to sell products there, and so it would go...
Why we allow this is beyond me, and one of the key things I hold against the demicans and republicrats, since both groups have engineered this bizaare state of affairs for decades.
I think the last time they took any action to protect US jobs was when they saved Harley Davidson & Chrysler.
And now look at Harley! Chrysler was kicking a** -still is, though it's owned by the Germans.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Oh man... Japanese builds engines in Japand and ships them here... not.
I have worked for either a Honda supplier or Toyota supplier since I graduated from College. Though, I bought a new Ranger in 2004 and then a Mustang in 2005 because I would rather work for Ford, GM, or Chrysler... but there is no job security there.
Anyways, most of the cars, Camry, Siena, Accord, Civic, etc are more american made than a lot of Fords. Just so you know if Toyota assembles a car here... they build most of the non-electrical components here. Both Jobs I have had have been in the powertrain industry. Specifically for the Camry, ES300, Odessey, and Pilot models. Everything in the engine, transmission, well the entire drivetrain including the rotors and calipers on the brakes started out as raw castings here in the US. Machined in the US, and shipped to the final assembly plat in the US.
HEck, the plant I work for now bought the land and then all, 100% of the funds, was given back to the company to develop here. That means they paid nothign for the land, then got all kinds of tax credits and government subsities to build. It cost them hardly anythign to get the building up and running and the only taxes we pay are export taxes from japan on our Equipment. Yup, thats right, but in 2 years 200 Americans do have jobs with full benifits, even if they only make $12.00/hr maxed out. Though, there are skilled positions liek maintenance, Die Maintenance, Fab shop workers, accountants, Engineers, etc etc that make more. I myself am an Engineer.
Funny thing is that we supply Toyota... so pay attention here. I am a production engineer that sets up and maintains machining lines. Nishida and Matsukawa build our machines, Toyota owns a controlling share of both. Accurom makes all of our set up tooling except for taps, Toyota owns them. We produce the parts, Toyota owns us. THen we ship to Toyota here. What does this sound liek to you... a Monopoly where they can control a lot of their prcing... yup. GM would not be able to pull this off as easily without the government breakign it up. Plus we dont pay taxes on production tooling, machines, fixturing, etc that directly touch the parts in manufacturing the parts and since we only have to pay taxes on proffit we funnel a lot of the proffit out to our suppliers that if you follow long enough all the money gets sent to Japan where they pay taxes to their own government.
Our Government is the entity that killed the US Auto Industry. The opened the door and allowed this to happen. Ofcourse poor quality and boring designs didn't help much in the past either.
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2006 Mustang GT in Torch Red
C&L Intake, Evolution Performance Tune, Borla Axle Backs, Hurst Shifter, 4.10's, JBA Long Tubes, Prothane Engine Mounts, Steeda UDPs, FRPP Charge Motion Delete Plates
Re: Domestic Hondas vs American cars made overseas. 
