[shartley]

Originally Posted by BKid

Ok we have choices on what to sell . I sell only Native American and American items on my ebay store. I could sell imports I just choose not to. I am not saying that this makes me any better than anyone else.I am only saying that we have choices.

You are correct. But think about this.... are any "imported" items used in the making of those Native American items? I am not only talking about what is a part of the item, but what about the furniture used in the work place, the materials used in packaging and shipping of the items, and so on. Imported things are a part of our daily lives and the things we have around us. And they all contribute to the economy one way or another... for good and bad. But we must not forget the "good" in our zeal to condemn the "bad".

I will also point out that items themselves may be made of imported things as well. Take for instance a fabric item. It may be made with thread originating in several countries, and the bobbin it is wound on could be made from yet another country who purchased the plastic from yet ANOTHER. And let's say the item was a painted rock, the paint may have come from another country and the lacquer from yet another, and the brushes used from yet ANOTHER (while the bristles used from yet ANOTHER). It is not always so simple to assign an end product's origin if you really break things down... even "Native American" products sold on the internet probably using servers that were made in yet ANOTHER country.

That was my point.

But yes, we have a choice. That choice however is often not what we think it is, or we are doing what we think we did. The waters are so mixed now days that to find an item truly ONLY made in the USA in totality is a rare thing indeed. The "made in the USA" label is not always the truth of the matter when you break everything down to its base components. And then that does not take into account the machinery used to assemble those items... they too in many cases were made entirely or in part someplace else. Oh what a mess it is if you have to break it down into the reality of things.

[BKid]

Originally Posted by shartley

You are correct. But think about this.... are any "imported" items used in the making of those Native American items? I am not only talking about what is a part of the item, but what about the furniture used in the work place, the materials used in packaging and shipping of the items, and so on. Imported things are a part of our daily lives and the things we have around us. And they all contribute to the economy one way or another... for good and bad. But we must not forget the "good" in our zeal to condemn the "bad".

I will also point out that items themselves may be made of imported things as well. Take for instance a fabric item. It may be made with thread originating in several countries, and the bobbin it is wound on could be made from yet another country who purchased the plastic from yet ANOTHER. And let's say the item was a painted rock, the paint may have come from another country and the lacquer from yet another, and the brushes used from yet ANOTHER (while the bristles used from yet ANOTHER). It is not always so simple to assign an end product's origin if you really break things down... even "Native American" products sold on the internet probably using servers that were made in yet ANOTHER country.

That was my point.

But yes, we have a choice. That choice however is often not what we think it is, or we are doing what we think we did. The waters are so mixed now days that to find an item truly ONLY made in the USA in totality is a rare thing indeed. The "made in the USA" label is not always the truth of the matter when you break everything down to its base components. And then that does not take into account the machinery used to assemble those items... they too in many cases were made entirely or in part someplace else. Oh what a mess it is if you have to break it down into the reality of things.

Oh this is so true the stones we use are cut overseas. I am aware of that and some of the findings are made overseas.The furniture is made in house by us. We make our own stamps for the silver and completley do all the silversmithing.We also inlay our jewlery by cutting stones for the inlay.We use poly bags for display purposes that are made here in the Usa. We try very hard to concetrate on using Us goods. Some tools we use are from Malaysia and some from russia. We buy stone from Russia,Amber for instance.Turquoise from China because Us mines are running scarce of Turquoise.It is hard to rely on only Us goods.I do what I can for the greater good.

[JudisStang]

All of us with pets know how hard it is to find products made in the United States for our furballs... Just wanted to add this pet site that sells products made in the USA...

Love United

[pcfrisch]

My wife bought me a pair of coveralls (Carhartt) made in the U.S. for Christmas.
For all of you Union haters out there, there was a sticker on them saying they were proudly Union made.

[JudisStang]

We found a delightful soap for a gift, cranberry - smelled awesome! Made in the USA!! Also, Scarletts 2 new dog beds... are proudly made in the USA... Excellent quality!

We're also returning our car cover (made in china) for another one (made in the USA) and clearly much better quality for the cash!

[dakine858]

Originally Posted by tripleblack

I think a lot of us realize that it would help our economy to buy more American products, and fewer from our unfriends in Red China, Venezuela, etc.

I know, if you haunt the aisles of the local WalMart, "Made in America" stickers are distressingly rare. This just means that you have to look a little harder - and be more aware of more factors in your buying decision than just price.

First of all, I'll be posting some links to sites that list sources for various goods made in the U.S. of A.

But when you REALLY can't find something made in America (and such things do exist), an informed shopper has a fall-back position:

Buy from our friends.

The first line of allies to consider are the countries that have agreed to a "Free Trade Agreement" with the United States. This is a surprisingly long list, representing trading partners who offer our companies equal access to their markets that they get from us. These are the "good guys":

1. Australia
2. South Korea
3. Canada
4. Mexico
5. Singapore
6. Chile
7. Peru
8. Morocco
9. Bahrain
10. Colombia
11. Panama
12. Israel
13. Jordan
14. Oman
15. Malaysia
16. Thailand
17. United Arab Emirates
18. El Salvador
19. Nicaragua
20. Honduras
21. Guatemala
22. Dominican Republic

We are also in the midst of serious negotiations with the Southern Africa Customs Union, which if ratified would add more nations to the list.

If you notice some major trading partners NOT on this list, its because they persist in trying to have trade with the United States go in THEIR favor, and in fact many countries do all they can to ensure it's a One Way Street!

Countries that take strong steps to exclude American products and Services (while they enjoy virtually unfettered access to American products):

The European Union (all of it)
Red China
Japan
OPEC (except for any nations listed above - I think Bahrain is in OPEC)

These 4 comprise the huge majority of our trade imbalance problem - essentially ALL of it, really. The rest of the world doesn't want to let us have equal, fair access to their markets, either, but they just don't stack up to the problems these 4 give us.

So, there is a good list of friendly nations engaging in fair trade with the U.S. Give THEM your business when you cannot find an American source.

I'll be back shortly with some links to lists where you can buy American.

Our "unfriends in Red China"? Might I ask why you think China is our "unfriend"? Is it because in 2004, Bush overruled a six-to-zero vote by the International Trade Commission that determined Chinese producers were dumping waterworks fittings into the U.S. market, which caused 500 Americans to lose their jobs? The Bush administration has been unwilling to save or protect domestic industries that are being hurt by unfair Chinese imports. I wonder why?

Aside from Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, there's an even bigger financial institution with greater debt and an increasing level of bad loans on its books. The U.S. government. Regardless of what you think about "Red China" or Russia, you have to live with the fact that we are now more dependant on both of these countries to sustain our economy. I don't know if you have noticed that foreign governments, especially China, are the ones buying up Treasury Bonds which is helping to fund U.S. debt spending.

It's no secret, George Bush loves to to hear himself say that he's gung-ho for the war on terror and has U.S. security at the top of his priorities. If you think he's full of s*it, you're on the right track. His administration has jeopardized national security and the ability to intervene in world crises by increasing China's power over U.S. foreign policy decisions with financial leverage. We now owe $1.6 trillion dollars to our "unfriends" who passed Japan to become the U.S. government's largest foreign creditor by continuing to finance the massive U.S. budget deficit.

I agree, the "unfriends" of ours are working hard to make it a one way street. You can thank the current administration for their willingness to increase cheap imports.

[tripleblack]

Why do I consider the Communist Chinese "unfriends"? LOL, you mean OTHER than the fact that we are technically still at war with them (via North Korea, their ally in the "Korean Police Action" which war is still unresolved)?

OR the fact that they have nuclear weapons aimed at our cities?

I know, its no longer politically correct to consider such evidence of ill intent important, but hey, I'm old fashioned that way.

I also view the Russians as "unfriends" for similar motives.

Given that this is a topic focused (long ago, I might add) on "Buying American" products, and as a secondary topic (chiefly in this post) about Free Trade and open markets, introducing a large dose of politics at this late date seems wasteful... But it might bring some clarity to your gloomy outlook.

For one thing, I AGREE that the current administration has mis-managed our trade policy - in fact, I will go one further - the Bush Administration has FAILED in this area in many respects. This particularly applies to China. It all stems from the official policy of turning a blind eye to massive and gross cases of dumping of every sort of product, ALL cases which abrogate layers of trade law, trade treaty and even simple economic common sense.

When I promote the concept of paying attention to who you do business with, I have frequently maintained that this is an area where the current administration (and the prior one as well) have utterly failed to fulfill their obligation to enforce our laws and treaties as regards trade with these economic pirates.

Dakine, should you be looking to pick a fight over the failures of the Bush administration in enforcing these things, you have come to the wrong place, LOL.

When the inevitable occurs and strong voices call for some sort of investigation into the workings of the Bush era, I would SUPPORT an investigation into this area...

The problem would be, however, that there are virtually NO members of Congress who can hold their heads high and throw the first stone. The corruption of our national leadership when it comes to economic earmarks involving benefits derived from this destructive trading relationship is as nearly complete as anything I have ever seen. Doubtless there are some politicians in Washington SOMEWHERE with clean coattails, but I cannot name them.

Originally Posted by dakine858

Our "unfriends in Red China"? Might I ask why you think China is our "unfriend"? Is it because in 2004, Bush overruled a six-to-zero vote by the International Trade Commission that determined Chinese producers were dumping waterworks fittings into the U.S. market, which caused 500 Americans to lose their jobs? The Bush administration has been unwilling to save or protect domestic industries that are being hurt by unfair Chinese imports. I wonder why?

Aside from Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, there's an even bigger financial institution with greater debt and an increasing level of bad loans on its books. The U.S. government. Regardless of what you think about "Red China" or Russia, you have to live with the fact that we are now more dependant on both of these countries to sustain our economy. I don't know if you have noticed that foreign governments, especially China, are the ones buying up Treasury Bonds which is helping to fund U.S. debt spending.

It's no secret, George Bush loves to to hear himself say that he's gung-ho for the war on terror and has U.S. security at the top of his priorities. If you think he's full of s*it, you're on the right track. His administration has jeopardized national security and the ability to intervene in world crises by increasing China's power over U.S. foreign policy decisions with financial leverage. We now owe $1.6 trillion dollars to our "unfriends" who passed Japan to become the U.S. government's largest foreign creditor by continuing to finance the massive U.S. budget deficit.

I agree, the "unfriends" of ours are working hard to make it a one way street. You can thank the current administration for their willingness to increase cheap imports.

[nigel]

Its kind of hard to buy american when their twice the price of foreign. Walmart is the cheapest place around. They are cheaper than the military bases here. The price of the mustang GT went up $3200 dollars when the price of foreign went down $3000. Can't really buy american when they raise the prices and you are on a budget or fixed income.

[tripleblack]

You will have to tell me which imported sports coupes you are talking about. I haven't heard of any of them dropping their MSRPs.

The only import competition for the Mustang GTs now are all much more expensive cars. The closest thing would be the Infiniti G37 at $35,900.

As for dealing, I am seeing $24,000 base model 2009 GTs when I do a search, with a $3000 discount (MSRP is $27,210) and higher discounts on the more expensive models, and these are advertised prices, not the result of negotiations.

There are other imported sports coupes that can compete with the Mustang GT, sure, cars like the BMW 335i ($42,200 base price) or the even pricier Porsches, Mercedes, etc.

Honda has a sports car, not a sports coupe like the GT, and so does Nissan (370Z). Subaru and Mitsubishi have fast sedans (WRX, EVO), but neither is notably cheap, and in fact, both are rarely discounted much at all.... And of course, they are not sports coupes anyway.

So I'm wondering which import you are talking about.

[JudisStang]

I've been noticing more and more "Made in the USA" items in dollar stores....

[tripleblack]

Now, that's pretty interesting, Judis. I need to review this topic and update the data, things have REALLY changed in that area this year!