[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by dmustang

I don't believe what I'm reading. Wildchic's daughter getting suspended 15 times for wearing a particular brand of clothing? This is acceptable? Sounds like the child is being the parent. I have 4 kids, one a hs soph, one in the 7th grade, one in the fourth grade and a 2 year old. They have never been in trouble like this in school. Dress codes as well as any other school rules are written out and are signed by parents and students alike at the beginning of the school year here in Texas (Pflugerville I.S.D.). If you have any problems with the dress code it should have been brought up at the beginning of the school year before you sign the rule sheet. But in order to try and get this particular brand of clothing on the acceptable list. Maybe a petition should be started and signed by a majority and be brought in front of the school board at an open meeting. Rules are put upon us to keep discipline. That seems to be a big problem for today's youth. Too many of today's parents won't say no to their children.

I say the government has no right to make family choices. It's a PUBLIC SCHOOL.

Can we merge the two threads?

[wldchic]

Originally Posted by sebastian

i agree, with alot said, but man, its school, you go and you follow the rules. skin industries has some logos and t-shirts that if i had a daughter would sure as hell not be able to wear in my house much less leave the house, you may not agree, but these shirts have a sexual conotation, which at my high school was against the rules. i agree some rules are stupid, but man its school you should be there to learn, not cause trouble. i think your daughter is part of the problem, energy that could be spent learning is now spent on a t-shirt. you dont like the rules, go to a different school, im 22 and ive been there and seen it, clothes are important to young people, i understand, she can wear them outside school, i believe if you looked at the dress policy im sure it says, clothes that are deemed inapropriate by deans, priciples etc are not to be worn. i believe tghe first time they told your daughter skin was not allowed i think they meant it, maybe you should take a hint, by the 3 rd time she got in trouble i beleive you are just being beligerent and obnoxious. final word, its not your school, so its not your rules, follow them or suffer the conciquences. no flaming intended just my $.02

Your right, it's not my school, or my rules, but it is my tax money paying for it.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by newstangownr

First of all, you know nothing about me. You're just trying to blame everyone else for the problems that you created. Secondly, my point is that clothing is a very small issue and the energy you're spending trying to defend it could be better spent on areas in your school that really matter. Like: Racial Discrimination; Gender Discrimination; Inadequate funding of materials; The disadvantaged poor; Inequality; Teen Pregnancy; Abortion; Racial Profiling.

Stand up for what's right. Yes. Absolutely. But choose your battles. Clothing isn't worth the energy that you're spending, and it's certainly not worth the cost of your dauther's education.

The fact that you state that you're daughter's response was "right on the money" speaks volumes. (And it's not good reading.) I stand by what I said.

I think our civil liberties ARE worth fighting for, and when you enter public school, you don't become a member of a Borg Collective.

As Americans, we have rights to freedom of expression. I think that's something worth fighting for, even if some would like to abdicate them for others.

[wldchic]

Originally Posted by newstangownr

First of all, you know nothing about me. You're just trying to blame everyone else for the problems that you created. Secondly, my point is that clothing is a very small issue and the energy you're spending trying to defend it could be better spent on areas in your school that really matter. Like: Racial Discrimination; Gender Discrimination; Inadequate funding of materials; The disadvantaged poor; Inequality; Teen Pregnancy; Abortion; Racial Profiling.

Stand up for what's right. Yes. Absolutely. But choose your battles. Clothing isn't worth the energy that you're spending, and it's certainly not worth the cost of your dauther's education.

The fact that you state that you're daughter's response was "right on the money" speaks volumes. (And it's not good reading.) I stand by what I said.

HELLO.................do you see what you wrote? Racial Discrimination. Everyone always thinks of racial discrimination in one way, against another race other than white, I even do. But when you think about it, it happens more to a white child in school than anything.

The reasoning behind not letting her wear the jacket from the school, is because she is affiliated with white supremacy......not for unapporiate clothing, showing stomach, etc. That is racial. I see kids with "black power" shirts on, why let them wear those if that is their argument. I personally don't have a problem with the black power shirts, but if the school really believed they were trying to keep racial issues out of the school, wouldn't those be the first to go?

[wldchic]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

I think our civil liberties ARE worth fighting for, and when you enter public school, you don't become a member of a Borg Collective.

As Americans, we have rights to freedom of expression. I think that's something worth fighting for, even if some would like to abdicate them for others.

Thank you...........

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by wldchic

HELLO.................do you see what you wrote? Racial Discrimination. Everyone always thinks of racial discrimination in one way, against another race other than white, I even do. But when you think about it, it happens more to a white child in school than anything.

The reasoning behind not letting her wear the jacket from the school, is because she is affiliated with white supremacy......not for unapporiate clothing, showing stomach, etc. That is racial. I see kids with "black power" shirts on, why let them wear those if that is their argument. I personally don't have a problem with the black power shirts, but if the school really believed they were trying to keep racial issues out of the school, wouldn't those be the first to go?

I would have to disagree with your 1st point.

But on your second point, Black Power T-shirts were banned, but the school districts lost.

"Black Power" does not imply violence or oppression against other students, the message is empowerment, and the litigants won their case.

The Government cannot limit freedom of expression.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by ridept

Rules are rules. What kind of example do you set for your daughters by not enforcing the rules. I happen to believe that limits need to be set on what is acceptable attire in school, and that you dont challenge the rules by allowing your 15yr old daughters to break them. You elect people to the school board who share your views. You are not very smart.

Americans have a duty to fight rules that impinge upon constitutional freedoms. It's written into the constitution.

Have you read it?

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

Americans have a duty to fight rules that impinge upon constitutional freedoms. It's written into the constitution.

Have you read it?

I've fought attempts by the Clinton Administration on this issue, as well. This is a cut and dried case.

Constitutional Law is clear.

http://www.aclukswmo.org/rights/stud...xpression.html
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeechlist.cfm?c=87

[Falcon453]

I'm surprised the school would do that. Then again, it's not a complete surprise, that's why I don't have much respect for the public school system. If they don't have a specific rule that says you can't wear it, I don't think they have any real grounds to stand on, but i'm not a lawyer. Even if they did, it's stupid. A name brand doesn't mean anything. Why are they giving you so much heck over it?

As for your daughters response, I personally don't think I'd want my child saying something like that, I expect would expect my kids to be better behaved. However, after she came home and told me, I would have gone down and cussed that lady out so badly, and then threatened to sue her for harassment.

As for racial discrimination, this annoys the heck out of me. Whites are discriminated against. There is no way around it. There is so much frickin black supremacy crap going on it's pathetic.


But now for the other side, about picking your fights. Though this is not fair, is it really worth getting your daughter kicked out of school? I completely agree that it isn't fair, but you do have to pick your battles. There are also other alternatives to public school, go to private school, or home school her if you don't want to put up with the crap from the public schools.

[keenr]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

I say the government has no right to make family choices. It's a PUBLIC SCHOOL...

Just out of curiousity, would that apply to teaching sex "education", teaching evolution as fact, and teaching "tolerance" (acceptance) of the homosexual lifestyle?

Did you read my earlier post about wldchic's school district's dress code and that according to the California Supreme Court the district CAN ban clothing without it being a violation of a student's free speech rights? I think the ONLY leg her daughter might have to stand on is if she can convince a judge that the district has to PROOVE whatever it is they are alleging about these "Skin" clothes...

Originally Posted by kscoyote

Can we merge the two threads?

Very good idea.

[keenr]

Originally Posted by wldchic

HELLO.................do you see what you wrote? Racial Discrimination. Everyone always thinks of racial discrimination in one way, against another race other than white, I even do. But when you think about it, it happens more to a white child in school than anything...

So white kids experience more racial discrimination than black kids? If your daughter said things like that IN school WHILE wearing her "Skin" hoodie, maybe that's where the school got the idea that it was a white supremacy thing...

Originally Posted by wldchic

The reasoning behind not letting her wear the jacket from the school, is because she is affiliated with white supremacy......not for unapporiate clothing, showing stomach, etc. That is racial.

Exactly. And that's why they don't have to allow her to wear it. No free speech issue there according to the California Supreme Court.

Originally Posted by wldchic

I see kids with "black power" shirts on, why let them wear those if that is their argument. I personally don't have a problem with the black power shirts, but if the school really believed they were trying to keep racial issues out of the school, wouldn't those be the first to go?

Hmmm.... Here again you MIGHT have a case.

Listen, did you read what I wrote earlier which was right out of your own school district's dress code. It explains what they did, why they did it, AND that the Supreme Court of California SAID they can do it. I really think you need to move on, find a way for your child to finish out this year and maybe find a new school district that will allow her to wear what she wants. But good luck finding one.

[keenr]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

I've fought attempts by the Clinton Administration on this issue, as well. This is a cut and dried case.

Constitutional Law is clear.

http://www.aclukswmo.org/rights/stud...xpression.html
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeechlist.cfm?c=87

I read the sites you posted and found they come down almost entirely AGAINST wldchic and her daughter...

"...Also, there are some issues (such as dress codes) that the Supreme Court has not touched yet, so the law is still unclear..."
But the California Supreme Court DID rule and said the district can restrict clothing it consider gang related. (Are White Supremacists a gang? Not sure.)

"Courts tend to support school officials in cases where they have restricted the way a student expresses himself or herself via clothing. This does not really seem fair, since schools are supposed to respect your right to express yourself as long as you do not cause a "material or substantial" disruption. Sometimes, schools justify dress codes as a reasonable method to control discipline and to avoid distraction..."
Again it would seem that if the district has decided that what she's wearing could cause a distraction or intimidation of other students based on their race etc., they CAN tell her she can't wear it.

[Punxsy Stang]

I`m GLAD to see parents standing up for their kids .

I too have stood up for my son several years ago . The school district that I live in has assigned student parking . The paved parking in front of the school are all numbered and are just outside the main entrance . The spots in the back of the school are in a dirt lot . Every summer before the start of the school year any student that intends to drive to school must sign up for a parking spot . BUT they take certain groups of students first . Students that are on a sports team and then seniors were aloud to sign up in the morning .

The kids on sports teams got the choice parking of the school . Then seniors came next . After that , anybody else till the number of parking spots ran out . Now here was the problem , If you were a poor kid that had to work after school the district couldn`t care less but hey go out on the field and play with a ball and you get the best . So what makes one student better than the next here was the question I asked my school board .

Anyways , Yes - stand up to the school district but be smart about it ( play by their rules --- sadly ) . First make noise , attend school board meetings and ask questions during the public comment part . call and talk to each board member during the evening hours ( they are elected officals ) Write letters to the editor, contact the company and see if they will get involved , and get as many people involved as you can .

Next , go to a lawyer . You might be surprised what all can be done with so little effort . The school district I live in has been sued over 50 times in the last several years . They ( school ) lost the vast majority of these law suits . Hey , if no body says anything then they don`t have to worry about following the rules themselfs .

next , keep involved . Attend school board meetings . publicly call them out on things that you view as wrong . You will be teaching your children a
good lesson in life .... stand up to a bully and call their bluff .

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by keenr

Just out of curiousity, would that apply to teaching sex "education", teaching evolution as fact, and teaching "tolerance" (acceptance) of the homosexual lifestyle?

The government cannot discriminate against its citizens, harm its citizens, and may not produce propaganda.

Sex Education is scientifically proven to reduce STDs, pregnancies, and abortions among young adults. Every state that has adopted abstinence-only programs has seen the rates of these problems increase. Texas currently has the highest rates of STDs, teen-pregnancies, and abortions in the country. In the interests of its citizens, Sex Ed is a good governmental decision, and parents may opt-out. There is no gevernmental interference in religion or parental decision-making here.

Evolution is scientifically-based, and the basis of every medical advance made since germ theory. The government may not produce propaganda, or religious texts. If creationism could be proven, then the government would have an obligation to teach it. Again, if a parent does not want his or her child to learn science, he or she may opt-out of the education. The ACLU and the Jehovah's Witnesses won this particular case. There is no governmental intrusion.

The homosexual "lifestyle" as you call it, falls under the third point, that the government may not discriminate against its own citizens, particularly on the basis of religion. More and more evidence shows homosexuality is not a choice, but is genetic and/or hormonal in nature. DDT (a synthetic female hormone used to control insect reporduction) has been shown to alter the balance of hormones in the womb, altering the sexual preferences of higher animals. Brain scans also show several differences in the structure of the brain.

People used to stone people with tourette's Syndrome, thinking they were demon possessed. People with Leprosy were shunned because they were thought to be cursed. These religious activities are clearly prohibited by the constitution, as is persecution on the basis of genetic characteristics, and limiting the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

Students may not persecute other students they believe are gay for religious reasons. They ARE free to have religious opinions, but may not use their opinion as cause to intimidate or persecute other students.

Originally Posted by keenr

Did you read my earlier post about wldchic's school district's dress code and that according to the California Supreme Court the district CAN ban clothing without it being a violation of a student's free speech rights? I think the ONLY leg her daughter might have to stand on is if she can convince a judge that the district has to PROOVE whatever it is they are alleging about these "Skin" clothes...

Very good idea.

California Law will fall before the U.S. Constitution.

[Falcon453]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

The government cannot discriminate against its citizens, harm its citizens, and may not produce propaganda.

Sex Education is scientifically proven to reduce STDs, pregnancies, and abortions among young adults. Every state that has adopted abstinence-only programs has seen the rates of these problems increase. Texas currently has the highest rates of STDs, teen-pregnancies, and abortions in the country. In the interests of its citizens, Sex Ed is a good governmental decision, and parents may opt-out. There is no gevernmental interference in religion or parental decision-making here.

Evolution is scientifically-based, and the basis of every medical advance made since germ theory. The government may not produce propaganda, or religious texts. If creationism could be proven, then the government would have an obligation to teach it. Again, if a parent does not want his or her child to learn science, he or she may opt-out of the education. The ACLU and the Jehovah's Witnesses won this particular case. There is no governmental intrusion.

The homosexual "lifestyle" as you call it, falls under the third point, that the government may not discriminate against its own citizens, particularly on the basis of religion. More and more evidence shows homosexuality is not a choice, but is genetic and/or hormonal in nature. DDT (a synthetic female hormone used to control insect reporduction) has been shown to alter the balance of hormones in the womb, altering the sexual preferences of higher animals. Brain scans also show several differences in the structure of the brain.

People used to stone people with tourette's Syndrome, thinking they were demon possessed. People with Leprosy were shunned because they were thought to be cursed. These religious activities are clearly prohibited by the constitution, as is persecution on the basis of genetic characteristics, and limiting the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

Students may not persecute other students they believe are gay for religious reasons. They ARE free to have religious opinions, but may not use their opinion as cause to intimidate or persecute other students.






California Law will fall before the U.S. Constitution.

The sex education and homsexuality issues, I think you're right. These things are factual, so they can be taught. However, evolution is total BS. I've taken the science classes in college, and the more I learn about evolution, the more flaky I realize it is. And that's just looking at it scientifically. I'm not saying creationism has any more scientific evidence. What it comes down to is what do you want to believe, evolution or creation. Neither can actually be proven. This is why evolution shouldn't be taught in public schools.

Sorry, I know it's I just had to say it