[3RD1]

Looking at the site I get nothing at all related to Skin Heads. I do get the push for Skin Girls........ and like it or not that can mean different thing to different people. Are the cloths "sexy"?..... do they make her look older than she is? Could they be a distraction? Are they really appropriate for school (must remember the hormones of a teen age boy are easily set into overdrive). What may be innocent to one person may be highly provocotive to others. (there are some very provocotive photos/adds on the site....you must admit)

What I'm trying to say is, there are a lot of things to take into consideration here. I mean, just look at the SKIN logo. (I've designed many logos and know all to well what can be implied)

http://skinindustries.com/html/images/skinheader.jpg

The animated woman isn't a middle schooler, and their motto: "Domination since 1998". I don't know about you, and you can call me a dirty old man, but that implies something way different than innocence. Certainly not a 13 year old girl.

I'm truly sorry for your prediciment....honest.

I just get the feeling there's more to the story.

As far as the ***** lady goes. You and, not your daughter, should have handled that. And I'd take her threats very seriously and keep following up on them. Make sure you get it documented. Then screw the *****.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by wldchic

I know this has nothing to do with 05 Mustangs, but please read, I put it in the Lounge also, but there is not that much exposure. I DO OWN AN 05 MUSTANG.......if that helps!

Student suspended/expelled for wearing “SKIN� CLOTHING…
This is about my daughter:

My daughter is in 8th grade. There is another 8th grade girl that lives in our neighborhood, she was in a talent contest at school and lost. My daughters (twins) are best friends with the girl that won "SUE". The girls do not hang out with each other, but they don't have any problems either.

"JANE", mother of the girl who did not win, does have a problem with my daughters and SUE. If they walk by her house she comes out screaming and yelling, she has threatened to kill them, and dispose of their bodies. I FILED A POLICE REPORT, nothing happened. The police told them to stay away from her house "SHE IS CRAZY".... they have.
While in school, my daughter was passing through the office, JANE was in the office, she called my daughter a little b****, my daughter called her a f***ing c**t. Keep in mind my daughter is a child, JANE is an adult. I complained to the school cop and principal, my daughter was suspended (5 days) for using foul language; disobeying; the mother was told, "don't talk to students". Is this right?

Now for the second part............

My daughters wear "SKIN CLOTHING", for those of you who don't know:

"Skin Stores also carry many of the top brands of accessories to finish your ensemble. In today’s flooded retail market Skin Stores are separated from the pack by brand recognition. Skin Stores have established this with 5 World Freestyle Motocross Championships, sponsoring top pro BMXer’s, Skateboarders and Wake Boarders. It doesn’t stop there, Skin Industries also supports bands like, Voodoo Glow Skulls, Gutter Mouth, The Nobody’s, Long Beach Dub All-stars, HB Surround Sound and the Kotton Mouth Kings just to name a few." http://skinindustries.com/

THERE IS NOT A RULE THAT STATES NO "SKIN" CLOTHING

The school principal and school district tells me that "SKIN" clothing is related to "WHITE SUPREMACY".........it is NOT, in any way, shape, or form. Who are they to say what clothing stands for? Where do they get the info? There is no document they could provide me with showing any such involvement.

My daughter has been in trouble several (15) times for wearing the SKIN clothing. I did not make her stop, because there is nothing wrong with her clothing, and we have no involvement in any type white supremacy. The school district calls it disobeying.

The school district/principal now has put her up for expulsion. She did not dress out for PE on Monday; she was disobeying again. So the bottom line is she had disobeyed too many times. EXPULSION FOR CLOTHING..................

Where is the education part in all of this? What about Math, English, and Social Studies..............What is this teaching her?

What do I do? I have to stand up for what I believe in, which I did, by not making her stop wearing the clothing, they had no evidence of white supremacy, it doesn't exist. If I back down now, what is that showing my daughter? If I continue, I put her in risk of problems at school.

HELP.................My daughter's name is Courtney Quinn.

School: Bella Vista Middle School, Murrieta, California
Principal: Pam Keller
Principal Phone: (951) 294-6600
Principal Email: PKeller@tvusd.k12.ca.us

District: Temecula Valley Unified School District
Superintendent: Mr. David Allmen, Superintendent
Superintendent Phone: (909) 676-2661
Superintendent Email: dallmen@tvusd.k12.ca.us

Thank you................
Marie

Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, ok ? Nothing personal.

Marie, don't you think that all of this is blown out of proportion ?
I mean if they don't want her for their own reasons to wear that stuff in school, have her wear something else for school, heck I don't know something like Gap, and when she is out of there, she can wear whatever she likes.
After all, school is supposed to be about learning, not a fashion show or even less a war over fashion (it seems to me a bit ridiculous, actually). And if for some reasons your daughter can't live life without wearing Skin clothing, just have her go to another school...
I am a bit surprised that there was no intervention from you before your daughter had gotten in trouble fifteen times, though.

If I was in your shoes, I would tell my daughter to
a) not use foul language with anybody (especially people that could be her parents by age...), even if someone uses it first against her: there is no reason to step down to that person's level. It just makes anybody really classless.
b) stay away from that other lady's property and generally avoid contact with her at all costs.
c) as said above, bite the bullett and don't wear Skin clothing when at school. I don't think it would be such an orrendous sacrifice on her side...

Finally, I believe if people are a bit reasonable, things shouldn't escalate to thermonuclear confrontations like this seems to be going towards.
You, being a parent and therefore much wiser than an 8th grader, should know (and therefore act accordingly) that your daughter's education is paramount and other things, especially so trivial like a brand of clothing, shouldn't be in the way of it.
The schools pisses you off ? That other mother pisses you off too ? Well, sh*t happens in life, bring your kid to Gap or some other similar place, this problem will stop, everything will be fine and you won't have to waste your time in such a trivial matter...

Good luck.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by wldchic

So what other choice do I have, but what I am doing. There is no way in hell I'm stoping now.

All of this is over a sweatshirt and a jacket with "SKIN" on it...
And it seems to me you want to pursue this legally: is this issue really worth the time of a court, lawyers and generally involving the legal system of this country ?
What choice do you have ? Have your daughter NOT wear that sweather or that jacket, save a lot of taxpayers dollars and reserve your time and efforts for a cause much more worthy than this one...
Come on...let's be serious...It seems to me a bit of a reenactment of Don Quijote...

[malecasta]

If you want to change a school rule that you feel is stupid, then you go to the Board meetings and present your case.

Instead, you encouraged your daughter to break school policy 15 times. Naturally the school has to seek expulsion...I'm a little puzzled why you find their response strange.

Considering your story about going to the principal in your own provocative clothing, I think this is really more about you, and not your poor daughter, who is suffering more from a lack of mature parenting then anything else.

[Striker]

We all choose our battles and if this is a "hill" you want to die rushing then go for it. However, my advice would be to stand down on this one because in reality school administrators can define dress codes and sadly you have to abide by them like it or not. Places of employment are no different. I doubt you'd fight for your right to wear your "Skin" tanktop to work if your boss disapproved of it. In reality this is no different and you're not shorting you daughters by letting them know that some rules suck (like these) but we don't always get to make the rules. Your best tactic would be to turn their own stupid rules back on them and have them explicitly define EXACTLY what clothes brands are allowed and not alolowed on school grounds and highlight any and all infractions to them personally. That should drive them crazy.


Good luck!

[DW Rutledge]

you should really try growing up. what about your child repeatadly breaking school rules seems appropriate? can you explain that. how is it appropriate for your child to repeatedly break school rules?

if an 8th grader is using language like that with adults you're in for a long haul.

maybe you don't understand this but school administrators have a school to run. your kid's bad attitude and fashion statements are secondary. the school is there for the children who are responsible and are there to learn. dealing with you and your future dropout are a distraction from the real business of the school-educating compliant children and helping them toward college. for you to be making waves and taking up the time of teachers and administrators who have a job to do is ridiculous, at best.

grow up a little bit.

[Goliath]

Now I may not know anything about parenting, but I am a student (22yo college senior). In 8th grade I used to wear a jacket which I loved but was against school policy and steel toed boots (I was a punk, heh). And I used to throw fits that they'd call me out on it. My parents finally just took them from me and returned them on weekends. I resented them for it for about a month. Then I gained something from it which was invaluable, I realized there is a system, and sometimes it sucks, but once you know the system, you can make the system work for you. I have a respect for authority even if I have contempt for it, which is a healthy way to be. Keeps me out of trouble, while knowing the limits and how the system works, you can typically find loopholes and toe the line with what you can get away with. Not even acknowledging the system is exactly what disgruntled county employees love to flex their authority on. My mother is a principle and I hear stuff like this constantly. I can gaurantee you that your image in the eyes of the school is being tarnished by your refusal to conform to this one stupid rule. That may not mean much to you, but they'll never take your opinion quite as seriously as if they did have respect for you as a parent who is trying to have their kid be successful. Pick your fights, think of the consequences. Can you afford private school? Is it worth moving to another school district? Do you really want to make the longer drive to and from a further school? Does your daughter really want to uproot during this critical period where she's forming most of her highschool-long friendships and start over? As for the language, I was pledgemaster of my fraternity and if I even heard a pledge use profanity around a girl (or alum or child), I would take it personally and make sure they knew their conduct was unacceptable. It's not having kids, but I was responsible that 18 18-year olds adjusting to college life appropriately and conduct themselves as gentlemen when the situation called for it.

[tangraf]

Originally Posted by DW Rutledge

you should really try growing up. what about your child repeatadly breaking school rules seems appropriate? can you explain that. how is it appropriate for your child to repeatedly break school rules?

if an 8th grader is using language like that with adults you're in for a long haul.

maybe you don't understand this but school administrators have a school to run. your kid's bad attitude and fashion statements are secondary. the school is there for the children who are responsible and are there to learn. dealing with you and your future dropout are a distraction from the real business of the school-educating compliant children and helping them toward college. for you to be making waves and taking up the time of teachers and administrators who have a job to do is ridiculous, at best.

grow up a little bit.

Have to agree here..... maybe you should be spending your time and energy teaching your daughter about respect than this worthless and useless cause you are undertaking. All this about clothes??? Give me a break!!!

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by malecasta

Here's an idea: why don't you buy your daughter some nicer clothes, so she doesn't have to dress like a tramp at school?

And if you're looking for a battle, I can think of several better ones than arguing with your school district about a dress code. Maybe challenge corporate power? Do something about the mercury in the environment? Fight for women's reproductive rights?

And you're right, your clothing choices have nothing to do with Mustangs. So rather than canvas us to badger your school principals, how about getting a clue and showing your daughter that there are more important things to fight over than trailer trash fashion.

The government has no rights to determine what a parent can and cannot approve for thier kids.

Government intervention into our civil liberties is getting out of control. If she approves it for her daughter, it's called free-speech.

She is American, she has rights to free speech, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as she hurts no one else.

-nuff said!

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by Legion681

Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, ok ? Nothing personal.

Marie, don't you think that all of this is blown out of proportion ?
I mean if they don't want her for their own reasons to wear that stuff in school, have her wear something else for school, heck I don't know something like Gap, and when she is out of there, she can wear whatever she likes.
After all, school is supposed to be about learning, not a fashion show or even less a war over fashion (it seems to me a bit ridiculous, actually). And if for some reasons your daughter can't live life without wearing Skin clothing, just have her go to another school...
I am a bit surprised that there was no intervention from you before your daughter had gotten in trouble fifteen times, though.

If I was in your shoes, I would tell my daughter to
a) not use foul language with anybody (especially people that could be her parents by age...), even if someone uses it first against her: there is no reason to step down to that person's level. It just makes anybody really classless.
b) stay away from that other lady's property and generally avoid contact with her at all costs.
c) as said above, bite the bullett and don't wear Skin clothing when at school. I don't think it would be such an orrendous sacrifice on her side...

Finally, I believe if people are a bit reasonable, things shouldn't escalate to thermonuclear confrontations like this seems to be going towards.
You, being a parent and therefore much wiser than an 8th grader, should know (and therefore act accordingly) that your daughter's education is paramount and other things, especially so trivial like a brand of clothing, shouldn't be in the way of it.
The schools pisses you off ? That other mother pisses you off too ? Well, sh*t happens in life, bring your kid to Gap or some other similar place, this problem will stop, everything will be fine and you won't have to waste your time in such a trivial matter...

Good luck.

I think freedom is worth fighting for, and I also think that her daughter doesn't need the stain of "White Supremacy" on her record, especially if she has ambitions for higher education.

fight the power!

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by Striker

We all choose our battles and if this is a "hill" you want to die rushing then go for it. However, my advice would be to stand down on this one because in reality school administrators can define dress codes and sadly you have to abide by them like it or not. Places of employment are no different. I doubt you'd fight for your right to wear your "Skin" tanktop to work if your boss disapproved of it. In reality this is no different and you're not shorting you daughters by letting them know that some rules suck (like these) but we don't always get to make the rules. Your best tactic would be to turn their own stupid rules back on them and have them explicitly define EXACTLY what clothes brands are allowed and not alolowed on school grounds and highlight any and all infractions to them personally. That should drive them crazy.


Good luck!

No they can't. There is nearly a hundred years of case law that says they can't.

If you're working for an employer, then the employer dictates the dress code.

The Government cannot.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by malecasta

Here's an idea: why don't you buy your daughter some nicer clothes, so she doesn't have to dress like a tramp at school?

Name-calling is a no-no. And you don't get to decide what is and what is not "trampy." I'd prefer to keep the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by malecasta

And if you're looking for a battle, I can think of several better ones than arguing with your school district about a dress code. Maybe challenge corporate power? Do something about the mercury in the environment? Fight for women's reproductive rights?

I don't think one precludes any of these others, but they are all important!

Originally Posted by malecasta

And you're right, your clothing choices have nothing to do with Mustangs. So rather than canvas us to badger your school principals, how about getting a clue and showing your daughter that there are more important things to fight over than trailer trash fashion.

That's just wrong. Fighting for freedom of expression means you can fight for the rest. It's a basic freedom gauranteed by the 1st Amendment.

Without this freedom, there is no fighting the rest. The founders recognized this, as should we all.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by Striker

We all choose our battles and if this is a "hill" you want to die rushing then go for it. However, my advice would be to stand down on this one because in reality school administrators can define dress codes and sadly you have to abide by them like it or not. Places of employment are no different. I doubt you'd fight for your right to wear your "Skin" tanktop to work if your boss disapproved of it. In reality this is no different and you're not shorting you daughters by letting them know that some rules suck (like these) but we don't always get to make the rules. Your best tactic would be to turn their own stupid rules back on them and have them explicitly define EXACTLY what clothes brands are allowed and not alolowed on school grounds and highlight any and all infractions to them personally. That should drive them crazy.


Good luck!

Private employers "own" the workplace and can set and enforce standards. A public school is NOT a private employer, it is a goverment program.

[Goliath]

you do realize kscoyote the founders were speaking of freedom of religion which has come to also cover such trivial matters as clothing through lucrative court hearings costing the state countless dollars. The schools request is not unreasonable, playing devils advocate to an issue such as this is ridiculous.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

Private employers "own" the workplace and can set and enforce standards. A public school is NOT a private employer, it is a goverment program.

You ever notice workers at the DMV wearing fishnets?