you do realize kscoyote the founders were speaking of freedom of religion which has come to also cover such trivial matters as clothing through lucrative court hearings costing the state countless dollars. The schools request is not unreasonable, playing devils advocate to an issue such as this is ridiculous.
You're wrong. If that were so, they would have limited cases, and limited damages.
If you read MAdison and Jefferson, you'd know how wrong you were on this issue. The state would not incur damages if it acted in accordance with the consitution. If it violates the constitution, it must pay damages or change its policies.
Financial damages are meant as a stick to keep the government out of our lives.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
You ever notice workers at the DMV wearing fishnets?
The DMV is an employer, in this case. Not a program.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
you know the salaries of all the clerks, bailiffs, and stenographers? yeah, those aren't free. Those are paid by the state, and the absurdity of these types of issues consume their time. Which, therefore, is costing the state money. I'm not talking about damages awarded, I'm talking about the time that we, being taxpayers, pay for. There are bigger fish to fry.
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you know the salaries of all the clerks, bailiffs, and stenographers? yeah, those aren't free. Those are paid by the state, and the absurdity of these types of issues consume their time. Which, therefore, is costing the state money. I'm not talking about damages awarded, I'm talking about the time that we, being taxpayers, pay for. There are bigger fish to fry.
You can't fight if you can't speak.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
kscoyote is providing a great example of how lawyers stay employed in this country. take a parenting issue, and turn it into a free speech/states rights issue.
kscoyote is providing a great example of how lawyers stay employed in this country. take a parenting issue, and turn it into a free speech/states rights issue.
The ACLU doesn't charge.
It's not a parenting issue. It's a government intrusion issue.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Why spend the time and money on a court battle over this? I just don't understand. Use those resources to find a better way to educate your child. Even if you win, would you really want to send your child back to be educated by the same system that threw her out for wearing a jacket? Hire an in home tutor with the money you would use to pay a lawyer. Send her to private school. Home school her. There are alternatives to the government education system. If you dislike the rules they are run by, find one that you can live with.
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Why spend the time and money on a court battle over this? I just don't understand. Use those resources to find a better way to educate your child. Even if you win, would you really want to send your child back to be educated by the same system that threw her out for wearing a jacket? Hire an in home tutor with the money you would use to pay a lawyer. Send her to private school. Home school her. There are alternatives to the government education system. If you dislike the rules they are run by, find one that you can live with.
Because she shouldn't have to, and for the evils of censorship to win, all it takes is for good people to remain quiet about it.
It costs her nothing, the ACLU does this for everyone. Whether it's a student wearing an anti-abortion t-shirt, or a wicca t-shirt. Freedom of speech is a guaranteed right.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
kscoyote you and I have different opinions, and that's fine. The difference between justifying my opinion and your opinion is I can just tell you what I think and provide the logic behind it, should you accept it or refute, whatever, it's your right to do so. To justify your opinion would be tying up courts for an unknown amount of time. While that may seem 'worth it' to an individual depending on that person's interpretation of the environment, just realize that other people are not going to see it as being 'worth it'.
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a public school is not the appropriate forum for practicing free speech.
the children are there to learn, that's about it. if they can't conform to school policies of decorum, such as offensive clothing or language, they must suffer the consequences. to compromise that is to compromise the children who are there to learn and get along with one another.
the kid's right to wear a shirt ends where the other students' right to go to a school without school-sanctioned behavioral distractions ends.
This is not a freedom of speech issue, it's a dress code issue. We could argue that kids should be able to wear shirts saying that all Mexicans in the school should be deported, in the name of free speech. It's clearly not appropriate for a school enviroment. You can paint that on a sign and walk around in public in the name of free speech. A classroom has its rules that it needs to maintain an educational environment.
And the "government" has nothing to do with this. Your school districts are locally run by Boards of Trustees that you elect. There is no federal regulation about dress codes...this is something the community, represented by their school board, has decided.
Again, if the rule is silly or needs revisitation, then the proper way to do that is to address the Board. Encouraging a child to continually break school policies, and then balk when the punishment is applied, is ridiculous and destructive to the child's social growth.
a public school is not the appropriate forum for practicing free speech.
the children are there to learn, that's about it. if they can't conform to school policies of decorum, such as offensive clothing or language, they must suffer the consequences. to compromise that is to compromise the children who are there to learn and get along with one another.
the kid's right to wear a shirt ends where the other students' right to go to a school without school-sanctioned behavioral distractions ends.
no, you are wrong.
The school is where you learn to be a citizen of the U.S. and part of that education is civics.
The case law is clear.
How can one learn compromise when he or she cannot express him or herself? compromise without communication is impossible, and the alternative prepares the student for life in a soviet styled bureaucracy.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
This is not a freedom of speech issue, it's a dress code issue. We could argue that kids should be able to wear shirts saying that all Mexicans in the school should be deported, in the name of free speech. It's clearly not appropriate for a school enviroment. You can paint that on a sign and walk around in public in the name of free speech. A classroom has its rules that it needs to maintain an educational environment.
And the "government" has nothing to do with this. Your school districts are locally run by Boards of Trustees that you elect. There is no federal regulation about dress codes...this is something the community, represented by their school board, has decided.
Again, if the rule is silly or needs revisitation, then the proper way to do that is to address the Board. Encouraging a child to continually break school policies, and then balk when the punishment is applied, is ridiculous and destructive to the child's social growth.
the community can no more restrict freedom of expression than the gov't can. It's an inalienable right. The Boards of Trustees, by virtue of being elected are "The Government." There are several governments, and in the U.S. all of them fall under the U.S. Constitution. No community in the U.S. can subvert the Constitution.
Your deportation argument only stands if it is speech meant to intimidate other students. This girls shirt does no such thing.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
where do you draw the line in terms of what is not appropriate? if you argue for total freedom of speech the result would be anarchy in classrooms.
why stop there? why can't the kids practice their freedom of speech while the teacher is lecturing? why not just blare eminem records during class?
in the sort of environment you are advocating, it would be virtually impossible for learning to take place. as a responsible member of society you must learn when to keep your yap shut, regardless of freedom of speech.
you seem to not understand the concept that your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose.
