[dmustang]

KSCoyote, it's pretty clear you don't have children in public schools.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

I think freedom is worth fighting for, and I also think that her daughter doesn't need the stain of "White Supremacy" on her record, especially if she has ambitions for higher education.

fight the power!

I see your point, kscoyote.
As a matter of principle, sure, it's worth figthing for.
But in real life, this still seems to me as a very trivial matter: at the end it's about a sweather and a jacket and it seems to me so strange that her mother let this escalate to this level when it could have been solved really quickly and in a painless way. It's normal that kids screw up (up to a certain level at least), and it's as well normal that a parent ought to be the voice of reason resolving low level quarrels instead of letting them escalate into something so much blown out of proportion or even worse helping them escalate to such a level.
I frankly believe it still can be solved if people wouldn't want to be so stubborn and an*l retentive...
And finally, in life there are some battles that are worth fighting for and some indeed not. This case seems to me a perfect example of the latter...
I wonder why wldchic is going this way instead of simply saying "Ok, don't wear that sweather and jacket at school": is it so difficult ?

[ddellwo]

Oh how I long for the simpler days when what Sister Michelle said was going to happen in her classroom, WENT in her classroom! And if you went home and whined to your parents that evening about Sister Michelle, they told you to that Sister Michelle was your teacher and the rules of her classroom were the rules of her classroom -- whether you liked them or not!

Part of life's lesson is that we don't always get to do everything we want, just because we want to, and that respect for rules and traditions, regardless of whether we personally agree with every aspect of them, is part of being a good citizen.

I'm afraid this lesson is often lost on today's parents, who seem to think that they (and their children) are really the only thing the world revolves around....

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by DW Rutledge

where do you draw the line in terms of what is not appropriate? if you argue for total freedom of speech the result would be anarchy in classrooms.

No, this is not true.

Originally Posted by DW Rutledge

why stop there? why can't the kids practice their freedom of speech while the teacher is lecturing? why not just blare eminem records during class?

Because it would impede on other's students rights to an education, and therefore harm them

Originally Posted by DW Rutledge

in the sort of environment you are advocating, it would be virtually impossible for learning to take place. as a responsible member of society you must learn when to keep your yap shut, regardless of freedom of speech.

This is simply untrue.

Originally Posted by DW Rutledge

you seem to not understand the concept that your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose.

No, I think it's vice-versa.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by ddellwo

Oh how I long for the simpler days when what Sister Michelle said was going to happen in her classroom, WENT in her classroom! And if you went home and whined to your parents that evening about Sister Michelle, they told you to that Sister Michelle was your teacher and the rules of her classroom were the rules of her classroom -- whether you liked them or not!

Part of life's lesson is that we don't always get to do everything we want, just because we want to, and that respect for rules and traditions, regardless of whether we personally agree with every aspect of them, is part of being a good citizen.

I'm afraid this lesson is often lost on today's parents, who seem to think that they (and their children) are really the only thing the world revolves around....

I hear you, almost same experience for me in my life when I was a kid and finally, I agree with what you are saying, especially the last phrase !

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by dmustang

KSCoyote, it's pretty clear you don't have children in public schools.

No, I have a son in the public schools, and I taught in the public schools, and at University.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by ddellwo

Oh how I long for the simpler days when what Sister Michelle said was going to happen in her classroom, WENT in her classroom! And if you went home and whined to your parents that evening about Sister Michelle, they told you to that Sister Michelle was your teacher and the rules of her classroom were the rules of her classroom -- whether you liked them or not!

Part of life's lesson is that we don't always get to do everything we want, just because we want to, and that respect for rules and traditions, regardless of whether we personally agree with every aspect of them, is part of being a good citizen.

I'm afraid this lesson is often lost on today's parents, who seem to think that they (and their children) are really the only thing the world revolves around....

The only rule or tradition in this country that matters is the Constitution.

Sister Michelle didn't teach in Public Schools, and if you want your child taught in that tradition, you or your church may pay for that education.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

No, this is not true.



Because it would impede on other's students rights to an education, and therefore harm them



This is simply untrue.



No, I think it's vice-versa.

Mind expanding on the logic behind these thoughts? I can make statements and not back them up too, doesn't meant they are valid.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Mind expanding on the logic behind these thoughts? I can make statements and not back them up too, doesn't meant they are valid.

I don't understand your question.

I went to school with kids who did all of the above, and I scored 99% on my Iowa Basics, and similar percentages in my SAT/ACT exams.

T-shirts simply do not impede the quality of a student's education.

[ddellwo]

Originally Posted by kscoyote

Sister Michelle didn't teach in Public Schools, and if you want your child taught in that tradition, you or your church may pay for that education.

You're right -- Sister Michelle didn't teach in the Public Schools, and it showed!

In my small town, parochial education ended in the 8th-grade, and off to the Public Schools you went! WHAT A JOKE! The last few years of my pre-college education were a 4-year nap, as we reviewed in 12th-grade what we learned in the Catholic school during the 7th-grade! My general impression of the Public Schools was that THE INMATES TRULY RAN THE ASYLUM!

I guess the old adage holds true -- you really DO get what you pay for!!!!

[Goliath]

KS I'm asking you to provide the logic behind your counterpoints to DWRutledges points where you simply just dissent to his opinion and do not expand on as to WHY you disagree.

No but as many judicial precedents go, if the T shirts and such are ruled as allowable, it will act as a stepping stone to carry in something that definitely should not be allowed in schools under the decision of "Irresponsible Parent vs. State of California". While that can be appealed to higher courts, that's still more wasted money over a mole hill, not a mountain.

[wldchic]

You all are missing the point...............It is on my daughters record she is wearing white supremacy clothing.

Would you want that following your child around? If it was as easy as don't wear that to school, sure, I would have done it.

But, it's not. As I wrote, she was suspended the last time for not dressing out for PE. She was suspended previously for talking back to the parent that threatned to kill her, she was sent up to the office the 15 times for dress code, not suspended.

So it was only during the suspension regarding PE, when I went in to talk to the school board, that I found out about the comments on her record re: white supremacy clothing. Up until that point I had no idea. While there were 15X in the office, I was not told, and as soon as I was, my daughters did not wear SKIN to school anymore.

So you see, all I wanted is the bullshit taken off her record, and for her to be allowed back to school. But they are not willing to do that. So my point is prove the case about white supremacy.......prove she is involved.......until then let her back in school, take the **** off her record, otherwise I will fight all the way.

And I don't think there is one of you out there that wouldn't do the same. What happens when she starts applying for college, one look at the record mentioning white supremacy, and that is the last look she will ever get.

And just to make sure you get the entire story, she has been in trouble 2X for chewing gum.......what are they going to link that to? and she has been tardy before. However, she has never missed 1 day of school in the 5 years we have been in this district.

There are kids that have brought pot and alcohol to school, they are still there.......why won't they just let her back in school? You tell me?

Everyone says worry about her education, I'm trying to, kinda hard when the school won't let her attend. Now who is the screwed up one?

[DW Rutledge]

Don't worry with your kid's behavior so far I doubt this will be the biggest impediment to her getting a college degree.

As far as KSCoyote goes, it is impossible to argue with these ACLU people. They're the kind of people that want to sue a homeowner when a burgular is injured breaking a window to get in a house.

[malecasta]

>As far as KSCoyote goes, it is impossible to argue with these ACLU people<

Um, I don't recall reading anywhere that KSCoyote is affiliated with the ACLU. My understanding of that organization (and I'm not a member) is that they would not see this as a freedom of speech issue either. I don't think you need to slam the ACLU here...they are not airing these vapid opinions.

Saying "t-shirts don't affect education" is silly and irresponsible. What's to stop kids from wearing t-shirts with porno images on them, or hate slogans, or whatever else "the Constitution" allows you to say.

And it doesn't stop in the classroom. I challenge KSCoyote to go to work wearing a t-shirt saying "The Pope eats bat sh*t", and hand the boss a copy of the Constitution when he/she tells KS to lose the shirt or lose the job.

[ddellwo]

Originally Posted by wldchic

You all are missing the point...............It is on my daughters record she is wearing white supremacy clothing.

Would you want that following your child around? If it was as easy as don't wear that to school, sure, I would have done it.

While I can begrudgingly understand your momentary alarm as a mother, do you really think that 2-days after graduation anyone will know or care about your daughter's high school conduct file?

I can assure you -- I have been involved in the hiring of numerous employees, and not once did I, or anyone involved with the decision, check on or even care about a high school conduct folder! The day after graduation this information becomes as meaningless as who won Homecoming Queen your sophomore year!

Seriously -- crack open a Diet Pepsi, slip a CD of your favorite music into the player of your 'Stang, and go for about a 3-hour cruise on your favorite strip of road! Everything will be OK -- all of this energy you are putting into this effort is doing nothing more than raising your blood pressure! Life is too short -- save the drama for when it really matters!

And to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that...." :thumbsup