[Snake Pliskin]

First the Shelby is over two tons now I read about the "vanishing point" challenger that is gonna weight 4200 pounds. My little notch weights around 2800. I thought my Cobra was fat at 3600+. What is happening to vehicles? One would think they would be trying to squeeze more power and mileage by using less weight. This can't be airbags and side impact beams weighing all that. Where is the weight coming from?

[JB02GT]

Originally Posted by Snake Pliskin

First the Shelby is over two tons now I read about the "vanishing point" challenger that is gonna weight 4200 pounds. My little notch weights around 2800. I thought my Cobra was fat at 3600+. What is happening to vehicles? One would think they would be trying to squeeze more power and mileage by using less weight. This can't be airbags and side impact beams weighing all that. Where is the weight coming from?

I think it is partially safety equipment, partially pollution control equipment and partially luxury equipment. Thinking of things like the GT500, in today's market, someone who is going to pay $50k, $75k or (according to some reports regarding final cost) over $100k for a 'special edition' car - especially someone who is buying it as more of a status symbol than because they are a musclecar enthusiast - wants some luxury to go along with their speed. They want a nice, throaty, loud exhaust but they don't want to hear it in the cockpit. They want stereos that will put my home system to shame, GPS systems, luxury seats, no road noise, etc. Being that many of them aren't middle-class car guys, they don't get excited about owning a specialty Mustang, so if Ford, MOPAR, etc. can't offer some luxury to back up the muscle, they will go buy a BMW or high-end, performance series Caddy that can. I guess the problem is really from two sources: first the fact that it isn't just enthusiasts, folks willing to deal with some noise and rough edges to have real American muscle, who are buying them and second the fact that many 'luxury' models and even 'family' performance sedans can now keep up with - or even outrun - our more traditional muscle. The Mustangs - especially high dollar editions - are no longer competing solely with cars in their traditional class but now must also compete with souped-up land yachts, etc. The sad effect is that, fortunately or unfortunately (I vote for the latter), our American muscle is losing the edginess and 'rough-house' persona that has long made it what it is. I mean, comparing two GM products, the new performance Caddies might be faster than an old Chevelle SS, but I know which one I would rather drive. Hint: It has 'SS' badges on it. Also, I guess I should throw in that someone who is going to drop a chunk of change on a car and wants real muscle and speed without worrying about luxury can start getting into low-end supercar range for the kinds of prices that are being discussed for the GT500 - and blow the Shelby's doors off. That's why I still think the Terminator Cobras are the best examples of Mustang performance - even better than the GT500 - because they were able to give real speed to those who wanted it without getting into supercar price ranges.

[Saleen Owner]

Originally Posted by Snake Pliskin

First the Shelby is over two tons now I read about the "vanishing point" challenger that is gonna weight 4200 pounds. My little notch weights around 2800. I thought my Cobra was fat at 3600+. What is happening to vehicles? One would think they would be trying to squeeze more power and mileage by using less weight. This can't be airbags and side impact beams weighing all that. Where is the weight coming from?

All the corporate pinheads seem to have forgotten the whole point of why the 'Pony' car was so popular. It was cheap!!! It did not have 800 lbs. of luxury crap thrown on it to up the price beyond the reach of its intended market.

When my dad was just out of high school in the Army with a wife and a baby he could afford a new '65 Stang. When I was in high school just about anybody working at McDonalds could afford a new GT Stang.

I don't see to many average income high school or right out of high school kids swinging the payments on a $30k GT Stang these days. It's like the dumb asses at Ford watched Chevy price the Camaro out of existence and thought, that's how you do it- turn what should be a $17k car into a $30k car.

Far as I'm concerned the Stang and Challenger are no longer 'Pony' cars, they are niche cars targeted at baby boomers trying to relive their youth. Don't buy that BMW Mr. Boomer, we have a 'Muscle Car' from your glory days for the same price. Only problem with that line of thought is that all the kids now will be looking for Civic's and Neon's to relive their glory days in the future because that's all they can afford now.

[shinerstang]

Good point Saleen. Please God, don't make my kids drive Neons or Civics. I wouldn't mind some extra weight as long as it allowed me to survive a crash to see my children grow up.

[JB02GT]

It just goes to show that there are so few of us left that understand the 'real' mystique of musclecars. Sure they can build a luxury roadster that can outrun my GT, but it's not a musclecar - it's a fast luxury roadster. There is a certain 'unrefined' quality to a real musclecar or pony car - roaring exhaust, the feeling of g-forces working on your body, seats that, while not necessarily uncomfortable, certainly don't feel like sitting in your favorite recliner. There are smells, sounds, feelings associated with them that cannot be reproduced - and, in fact, are actively avoided - by clockwork-type machinery such as what you find under the hood of a more 'refined' speedster. They don't do everything for you - you are 'plugged in' to the car, not an observer. You have to be paying attention to drive one of them at any real speed - and I'm not necessarily just talking about ridiculous speeds. Do that and they will treat you well - don't and they will kick your a$$ in a hurry. If it doesn't make you a little bit nervous the first time or two you drive it, it ain't muscle in my book. Even the couple of old V8 'lead sleds' I have owned felt more like 'muscle' - though they were far from it - than a lot of the overly refined speedsters of today.

My 4.6 doesn't have the 'feel' of the old pushrod motors, but it is just about as close as I have found in a newer car. In fact, complaints I read in owner's reviews about how 'unrefined' they are were partly what made me decide I wanted a Mustang in the first place.

My feeling is that many of the rich folks and Hollywood types who buy things like GT500 will want anything but a true 'musclecar' feel. They will want the car to have a smooth as glass ride, a mostly quiet cabin (aside from the $20,000 DVD/Playstation/plasma screen systems they will put in them) and absolutely, positively, no soul whatsoever. If they don't come from the factory that way, they will be 'customized' to those standards soon enough.

[kscoyote]

The wiring ALONE for the sound system, computer stuff, airbags, ABS, Traction Control, power seats, etc., is more than a hundred pounds in the outgoing car. with a longer wheelbase, I reckon the weight of just the wiring is up another 10%

[SMOKE]

Speaking of curb weight....Link
2005 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class CL65 AMG 4654
2006 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class CL65 AMG Coupe 4654
2005 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL65 AMG Roadster 4564
2006 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL65 AMG Roadster 4564
2007 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL65 AMG Roadster 4564
2007 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL55 AMG Roadster 4365
2006 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class CL55 AMG Coupe 4300
2006 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL55 AMG Roadster 4280
2006 BMW 6 Series 650i Convertible 4277
2006 Audi S4 Cabriolet with Tiptronic 4266
2005 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class CL55 AMG Coupe 4255
2005 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL55 AMG Roadster 4235
2006 Audi S4 Cabriolet 4211
2005 Audi S4 Cabriolet with Tiptronic 4178
2005 BMW 6 Series 645Ci Convertible 4178
2005 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S Coupe 4133
2006 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S Coupe 4133
2005 Audi S4 Cabriolet 4090
2005 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 4056
2005 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti F1 4056
2006 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 4056
2006 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti F1 4056
2005 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish Coupe 4046
2005 Jaguar XK-Series XKR Convertible 4042
2006 Jaguar XK-Series XKR Convertible 4042
2007 Ford Shelby GT500 Convertible 4040
2005 Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 3969
2006 Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 3969
2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK55 AMG Cabriolet 3960
2006 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK55 AMG Cabriolet 3960
2007 Ford Shelby GT500 Coupe 3920
2006 BMW M6 Coupe 3909
2005 Jaguar XK-Series XKR Coupe 3865
2006 Jaguar XK-Series XKR Coupe 3865
2005 Maserati Spyder Cambiocorsa 3836
2006 Maserati Gran Sport Spyder 3815
2006 BMW 6 Series 650i Coupe 3814
2006 Cadillac XLR-V Convertible 3810
2005 Maserati Spyder GT 3791
2005 BMW 6 Series 645Ci Coupe 3781
2005 BMW M3 Convertible 3781
2006 BMW M3 Convertible 3781
2005 Jaguar XK-Series XK8 Coupe 3779
2006 Jaguar XK-Series XK8 Coupe 3779
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 3732
2006 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 3732
2005 Pontiac GTO Coupe 3725
2006 Pontiac GTO Coupe 3725
2005 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 3704
2005 Maserati Gran Sport Coupe 3704
2006 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 3704
2006 Maserati Gran Sport Coupe 3696
2006 Maserati Gran Sport LE 3696
2006 Maserati Gran Sport MC Victory 3696
2005 Maserati Coupe GT 3682
2006 Maserati Coupe GT 3682
2007 Jaguar XK Coupe 3671
2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GT 3671
2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet 3660
2005 Cadillac XLR Convertible 3647
2006 Cadillac XLR Convertible 3647
2005 Lamborghini Murcielago Coupe 3638
2005 Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster 3638
2006 Lamborghini Murcielago Coupe 3638
2006 Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster 3638
2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK55 AMG Coupe 3635
2006 Nissan 350Z Roadster Grand Touring 3602
2006 Nissan 350Z Roadster Touring 3600
2006 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK350 Coupe 3585
2006 Nissan 350Z Roadster Enthusiast 3580
2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe 3525
2006 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT 3524
2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK320 Coupe 3515
2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT 3512
2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Coupe 3505
2006 Infiniti G35 Coupe Base 3505
2007 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe 3487
2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe Base 3486
2005 Ford GT Coupe 3485
2006 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 3472
2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 3472
2005 Nissan 350Z Roadster Grand Touring 3462
2005 Nissan 350Z Roadster Touring 3462
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage Coupe 3461
2006 Panoz Esperante GTLM Convertible 3461
2005 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe Coupe 3450
2005 Ford Mustang GT Premium Coupe 3450
2006 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe Coupe 3450
2006 Ford Mustang GT Premium Coupe 3450
2007 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe Coupe 3450
2007 Ford Mustang GT Premium Coupe 3450
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 S Cabriolet 3440
2005 Audi TT 250 Coupe quattro 3428
2005 Nissan 350Z Roadster Enthusiast 3428
2006 Audi TT 250 Coupe quattro 3428
2006 Audi TT Special Edition Coupe 3428
2006 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class SLK55 AMG Roadster 3420
2005 BMW M3 Coupe 3415
2006 BMW M3 Coupe 3415
2006 Pontiac G6 GT Coupe 3415
2007 Pontiac G6 GT Coupe 3415
2005 Dodge Viper SRT-10 Convertible 3410
2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 Convertible 3410
2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe 3410
2006 Nissan 350Z Coupe Grand Touring 3404
2006 Nissan 350Z Coupe Track 3400
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class SLK55 AMG Roadster 3397
2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS Supercharged 3395
2006 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS 3395
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS 3395
2005 Mercedes-Benz C-Class C320 Sport Coupe 3385
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 Cabriolet 3385
2005 Panoz Esperante GTLM Convertible 3384
2005 Panoz Esperante GTLM Coupe 3384
2006 Panoz Esperante GTLM Coupe 3379
2006 Nissan 350Z Coupe Touring 3370
2006 Ferrari F430 Spider 3351
2006 Nissan 350Z Coupe Enthusiast 3346
2006 Nissan 350Z Coupe Base 3339
2005 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 3329
2005 Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 Roadster 3328
2006 Volkswagen New GTI 2.0T 3308
2006 Honda Accord Coupe EX V-6 6-Spd MT w/ Nav/ XM Radio 3303
2006 Honda Accord Coupe EX V-6 6-Spd MT w/ XM Radio 3303
2005 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GT 3296
2005 BMW 3 Series Coupe 330Ci 3285
2006 BMW 3 Series Coupe 330Ci 3285
2005 Panoz Esperante Convertible 3279
2005 Panoz Esperante Coupe 3279
2006 Panoz Esperante Convertible 3279
2006 Panoz Esperante GT Convertible 3279
2005 Honda Accord Coupe EX V-6 6-Spd MT w/ Nav/ XM Radio 3265
2005 Honda Accord Coupe EX V-6 6-Spd MT w/ XM Radio 3265
2006 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class SLK350 Roadster 3255
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 S Coupe 3252
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Anniversary Edition 3247
2005 Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS 3241
2005 Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 Coupe 3240
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Touring 3239
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class SLK350 Roadster 3231
2005 Audi TT 225 Coupe quattro 3230
2006 Audi TT 225 Coupe quattro 3230
2006 BMW M Coupe 3230
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Track 3225
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Performance 3217
2006 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class SLK280 Roadster 3210
2005 Dodge Stratus Coupe R/T 3206
2005 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 3199
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 3199
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible LT2 3199
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible LT3 3199
2005 Acura NSX 3.0 4-Spd AT 3197
2005 BMW 3 Series Coupe 325Ci 3197
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Enthusiast 3197
2005 Panoz Esperante GT Convertible 3197
2005 Panoz Esperante GT Coupe 3197
2006 BMW 3 Series Coupe 325Ci 3197
2006 BMW M Roadster 3197
2006 Ferrari F430 Coupe 3197
2006 Panoz Esperante Coupe 3197
2006 Panoz Esperante GT Coupe 3197
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 Coupe 3197
2005 Nissan 350Z Coupe Base 3188
2005 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 3179
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 3179
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe LT1 3179
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe LT2 3179
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe LT3 3179
2005 Acura NSX 3.2 6-Spd MT 3153
2005 Lamborghini Gallardo Coupe 3153
2006 Lamborghini Gallardo Coupe 3153
2005 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 3142
2005 Chrysler Crossfire Roadster Limited 3140
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 LZ1 3132
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 LZ2 3132
2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S 3131
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera S Coupe 3131
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 3130
2006 BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0si 3108
2005 Pontiac Grand Am GT Coupe 3091
2005 Pontiac Grand Am GT1 Coupe 3091
2005 Chrysler Crossfire Roadster 3089
2006 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si 3086
2005 Porsche 911 Carrera Base 3075
2006 Mazda RX-8 Sport AT 3075
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe 3075
2005 Chrysler Crossfire Coupe Limited 3061
2005 Mazda RX-8 Sport AT 3053
2005 Mazda RX-8 Sport AT Shinka 3053
2006 Mazda RX-8 6-Speed 3045
2005 Porsche 911 GT3 Coupe 3043
2005 Porsche Carrera GT Cabriolet 3043
2005 Volkswagen GTI VR6 3036
2005 Mazda RX-8 6-Speed 3029
2005 Mazda RX-8 6-Speed Shinka 3029
2005 Hyundai Tiburon SE 3023
2006 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0i 3020
2005 Hyundai Tiburon GT 3015
2005 Chrysler Crossfire Coupe 3010
2005 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0i 2998
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe 2991
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe 2991
2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe 2991
2005 Audi TT 180 Coupe FrontTrak 2987
2006 Audi TT 180 Coupe FrontTrak 2987
2006 Hyundai Tiburon SE 2986
2006 Hyundai Tiburon GT 2969
2006 Hyundai Tiburon GT LTD 2969
2005 Porsche Boxster S 2965
2006 Porsche Boxster S 2965
2006 Porsche Cayman S 2954
2005 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 2950
2006 Saturn ION Red Line Quad Coupe 2945
2007 Saturn ION Red Line Quad Coupe 2945
2005 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T 2934
2006 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T 2934
2005 Saturn ION Red Line Quad Coupe 2933
2007 Saturn SKY Roadster 2933
2005 BMW Z4 Roadster 2.5i 2932
2005 Scion tC Sport Coupe 2905
2006 Scion tC Sport Coupe 2905
2007 Scion tC Sport Coupe 2905
2006 Honda Civic Si 6-Spd MT 2877
2006 Honda Civic Si 6-Spd MT w/ Nav 2877
2006 Honda Civic Si 6-Spd MT w/ Nav and Performance Tires 2877
2006 Honda Civic Si 6-Spd MT w/ Performance Tires 2877
2006 Pontiac Solstice Roadster 2860
2007 Pontiac Solstice Convertible 2860
2005 Porsche Boxster Convertible 2855
2006 Honda S2000 6-Spd MT 2855
2006 Porsche Boxster Convertible 2855
2005 MINI Cooper S Convertible 2844
2006 MINI Cooper S Convertible 2844
2006 Acura RSX Type-S 6-Spd MT w/ Leather 2840
2005 Honda S2000 6-Spd MT 2835
2005 Volkswagen New Beetle GLS 1.8T 2820
2005 Acura RSX 5-Spd AT 2809
2005 Acura RSX 5-Spd AT w/ Leather 2809
2006 Acura RSX 5-Spd AT 2809
2006 Acura RSX 5-Spd AT w/ Leather 2809
2005 Honda Civic Si 5-Spd MT w/ Front Side Airbags 2786
2005 Honda Civic Si 5-Spd MT 2778
2005 Acura RSX Type-S 6-Spd MT w/ Leather 2769
2006 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 2750
2005 Acura RSX 5-Spd MT 2734
2005 Acura RSX 5-Spd MT w/ Leather 2734
2006 Acura RSX 5-Spd MT 2734
2006 Acura RSX 5-Spd MT w/ Leather 2734
2005 MINI Cooper S 2679
2006 MINI Cooper S 2679
2005 Mazda MAZDASPEED MX-5 MIATA 2529
2005 Toyota Celica GTS 2500
2006 Morgan Aero 8 Convertible 2500
2006 Mazda MX-5 3rd Generation Limited 2498
2006 Mazda MX-5 Grand Touring 2498
2006 Mazda MX-5 Sport 2498
2005 Morgan Aero 8 Convertible 2496
2006 Mazda MX-5 Base 2474
2006 Mazda MX-5 Touring 2474
2005 Mazda MX-5 Miata Cloth 2447
2005 Mazda MX-5 Miata LS 2447
2006 Mazda MX-5 Club Spec 2441
2005 Toyota Celica GT 2425
2005 Toyota MR2 Spyder Convertible 2195
2006 Lotus Elise Convertible 1984
2005 Lotus Elise Convertible 1975

[STANGMAN COMING]

You guys hit the point on a dime.I remeber in 1973, getting my fully loaded 1971 SS Chevelle with the 396 bored to a 402 for a little over $2100.00.
I was a Sophomore in High School , working part time & apying a monthly car payment of about $50.00 per month.
Man, those were different times then.

[74stang2togo]

It's the sound deadening material, safety equipment, "refined" drivetrains, and other largely un-needed crap (safety equipment notwithstanding).

[1965mustang]

I think that if you put your money on the lighter cars; the manufacturers will try to build lighter cars.

2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 LZ2 3132
2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S 3131
2006 Porsche 911 Carrera S Coupe 3131
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 3130

If people continue to buy the heavy cars, they will continue building them.

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by 1965mustang

I think that if you put your money on the lighter cars; the manufacturers will try to build lighter cars.



If people continue to buy the heavy cars, they will continue building them.

Mustang v6 3200 lbs . ..

[GT300TD]

Great info smoke!

I do think Ford could have 'Deluxed' the Mustang a little more though.

My wife has an '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G and it is a great deal more Deluxe than my '06 GT Premium Coupe. Hers stickered for $31,500 and my Mustang for
$29,620. Hers weighs within 50 lbs of mine has 4 doors (with the style of the car doesn't look too bad) is a foot longer, and when you get in, the smell of leather is exillerating. It is completely loaded, Supercharged, moon roof, Satellite radio, On Star, Tap Shift (full time auto OR stick)) and will run right with my Mustang.

I do like the looks of my Mustang better though but, for the price, weight and performance of the GP I think that the automakers can make a great looking, performing, and handling car with a good deal of luxury for a good price if they want to!

My .02

GT300TD

[JB02GT]

Originally Posted by GT300TD

Great info smoke!

I do think Ford could have 'Deluxed' the Mustang a little more though.

My wife has an '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G and it is a great deal more Deluxe than my '06 GT Premium Coupe. Hers stickered for $31,500 and my Mustang for
$29,620. Hers weighs within 50 lbs of mine has 4 doors (with the style of the car doesn't look too bad) is a foot longer, and when you get in, the smell of leather is exillerating. It is completely loaded, Supercharged, moon roof, Satellite radio, On Star, Tap Shift (full time auto OR stick)) and will run right with my Mustang.

I do like the looks of my Mustang better though but, for the price, weight and performance of the GP I think that the automakers can make a great looking, performing, and handling car with a good deal of luxury for a good price if they want to!

My .02

GT300TD

I think you are right, but the opposite is true, as well - they could cut out a lot of the luxury stuff, make the car lighter (therefore faster with the same motor) and sell it for much less. This could apply not only to the 'halo' versions like the GT500 (which are likely getting a big part of their pricetag from the name rather than equipment, anyway), but to more 'standard' Mustangs, as well. I think that was kind of the idea behind the LX and GTS models - give folks the option of having the performance of a V8 in a package that is comfortable enough to be daily driven, has basic 'luxury' items (a/c, for instance), but leaves out a lot of the other stuff that just weighs the car down if you aren't going to need that equipment for your application of the car. I have been told (don't know from experience) that the Fox LX 5.0s are actually faster in a straight line than the comparable GT models simply because they have the same motor but are lighter. By offering such a package, Ford offered a V8 that was less 'luxurious' and had fewer external 'styling' pieces (more like a classic muscle or pony car), was lighter (so, potentially, faster) and was more affordable. Don't get me wrong, I like my the Premium package on my GT quite a bit - especially the leather seats. I bought mine used last year, so it was about 3 model years old. If I could have bought an '02 V8 GTS (had such a model been made) for a good bit less money, however, I would have definitely considered it. It kind of goes back to the heritage of what a 'pony' car is supposed to be. Didn't people used to refer to the original Mustangs as 'a V8 on a go-cart' because it was a big motor on a light, no-frills body?

[kscoyote]

Originally Posted by JB02GT

I think you are right, but the opposite is true, as well - they could cut out a lot of the luxury stuff, make the car lighter (therefore faster with the same motor) and sell it for much less. This could apply not only to the 'halo' versions like the GT500 (which are likely getting a big part of their pricetag from the name rather than equipment, anyway), but to more 'standard' Mustangs, as well. I think that was kind of the idea behind the LX and GTS models - give folks the option of having the performance of a V8 in a package that is comfortable enough to be daily driven, has basic 'luxury' items (a/c, for instance), but leaves out a lot of the other stuff that just weighs the car down if you aren't going to need that equipment for your application of the car. I have been told (don't know from experience) that the Fox LX 5.0s are actually faster in a straight line than the comparable GT models simply because they have the same motor but are lighter. By offering such a package, Ford offered a V8 that was less 'luxurious' and had fewer external 'styling' pieces (more like a classic muscle or pony car), was lighter (so, potentially, faster) and was more affordable. Don't get me wrong, I like my the Premium package on my GT quite a bit - especially the leather seats. I bought mine used last year, so it was about 3 model years old. If I could have bought an '02 V8 GTS (had such a model been made) for a good bit less money, however, I would have definitely considered it. It kind of goes back to the heritage of what a 'pony' car is supposed to be. Didn't people used to refer to the original Mustangs as 'a V8 on a go-cart' because it was a big motor on a light, no-frills body?

Yeah the fastest/quickest 5.0L was the LX notchback.

The 67/68/69 Shelbys were NOT the performance cars of the bunch, and were roundly criticized for being too luxurious/heavy. That was one of the reasons Shelby left Ford in the first place.

the original mustangs were inline 6s, with a 260ci v8 available later. It didn't become a v8 on a skateboard until Shelby was tapped to make a "sports car" out of a rebodied Falcon.

[vantage]

Originally Posted by GT300TD

Great info smoke!

I do think Ford could have 'Deluxed' the Mustang a little more though.

My wife has an '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G and it is a great deal more Deluxe than my '06 GT Premium Coupe. Hers stickered for $31,500 and my Mustang for
$29,620. Hers weighs within 50 lbs of mine has 4 doors (with the style of the car doesn't look too bad) is a foot longer, and when you get in, the smell of leather is exillerating. It is completely loaded, Supercharged, moon roof, Satellite radio, On Star, Tap Shift (full time auto OR stick)) and will run right with my Mustang.

I do like the looks of my Mustang better though but, for the price, weight and performance of the GP I think that the automakers can make a great looking, performing, and handling car with a good deal of luxury for a good price if they want to!

My .02

GT300TD

No way dude! A Grand Prix will run right with your GT?? Maybe you're not pushing the far right pedal hard enough?