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Old 02-08-2007   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ford kicking butt! (In Europe)

Ford Motor Company Starts 2007 with Surging Sales
BRENTWOOD, Essex, 6 February, 2007 – Ford Motor Company has kicked off 2007 with increased car and commercial vehicle volumes, continuing the market leading performance of 2006 which made the blue oval number one car brand for 30 consecutive years.

- Ford cars : 27,984 units sold in January 2007 – almost 6.8 per cent up on 2006
- Ford commercial vehicles : 21.7 per cent leap for CVs led by Transit – International Van of the Year 2007
- Ford market share : 18.2 per cent of total car and CV sales – up 0.9 per cent on 2006

http://www.autospectator.com/modules...p?storyid=7905
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Old 02-08-2007   #2 (permalink)
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Default Brits

Ford has a good, solid base in the UK. They make the leading low-cost car (or "Kah") - and occupy the same position in virtually every market segment. I've driven several of these vehicles (well, 2 actually, both on a trip to Scotland) and they were good solid cars that seemed eminently saleable in the US.

Of course, the last English Ford they tried to import over here was the Cortina (died in the early 70's, I believe).

I think they should seriously look at dipping into their European model lineups to fill all those glaring gaps in the small to compact markets over here.

Funny, really. Ford goes to England to find cars to import to the US and buys the dollar pit Jaguar instead of just figuring out how to move their existing cars into dealer lots over here...

Ego. It must have been about the ego, rather than the logic.
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Old 02-08-2007   #3 (permalink)
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It would be nice to see Ford doing well in their own backyard. It's been a long time coming.
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Old 02-09-2007   #4 (permalink)
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I'm kinda wondering when Ford will see the light and possibly offer their US lineup to the EU.

Not sure if it'll sell all that well, since Ford has been known to make cars that don't put the weight on economics, and fuel prices in the EU are higher then the prices in the US but hey...
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Old 02-09-2007   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko- View Post
I'm kinda wondering when Ford will see the light and possibly offer their US lineup to the EU.

Not sure if it'll sell all that well, since Ford has been known to make cars that don't put the weight on economics, and fuel prices in the EU are higher then the prices in the US but hey...
I've never understood the timidity of American manufacturers selling their US cars in Europe. I've lived in Europe several times, for a total over 5 years, and from time to time saw firsthand the reaction that an American car got on the streets of Europe.

In 1972 a friend and I drove his 69 Camaro Z28 from Ramstein (Germany) to Denmark by way of the Netherlands, and there were times when we would stop traffic literally in its tracks. The car got so much attention that we took impromptu breaks, pulling in to park in some town, just so the gridlock caused by drivers stopping their vehicles in the middle of the road to get a better look at us would ease somewhat!

The most frequently asked question was how much it cost and how much horsepower it could make. Even well-dressed adults would get all dreamy eyed to learn that the car cost about half what they would pay for an underpowered Renault - and generated about three times the power. When another American soldier driving a Mustang pulled in along side us at one Dutch gasthous, we almost started a riot. We were worried when the local cops pulled up, tiny blue bulbs flashing, but all they did was sort out the traffic jam and then beg us for rides in our cars.

Cadillac is erecting an extensive dealer network in Europe, with every indication of going head-to-head with the luxury makes over there. Early indications are that they are getting excellent reactions - and this in spite of the fact that unlike the less expensive Fords and Chevies, they are really not competing on price but on performance and style.

Ford has an extensive dealer network throughout Europe. Adding just a token Fusion or Mustang to each dealership would probably ignite some extreme interest in those locations, and generate huge additional sales for Ford.

Maybe Mullaly will figure this out. Seems obvious, doesn't it?
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Old 02-09-2007   #6 (permalink)
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I just read somewhere that it is a good time to buy Ford stock, If only we could see the future.
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Old 02-09-2007   #7 (permalink)
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Ford has an extensive dealer network throughout Europe. Adding just a token Fusion or Mustang to each dealership would probably ignite some extreme interest in those locations, and generate huge additional sales for Ford.
Possibly correct. The issue that plagues us here in the Netherlands is the additional taxes that get added to the vehicle just to get it licensed. If you want a numberplate for it you start out by taking the price of the vehicle, and then adding BPM to it (and yes, that's a purely dutch thing, the rest of Europe doesn't have it AFAIK).

The BPM (Taxes on Personal Motorvehicles) is basically just taxes on a new vehicle, but as you can imagine this also works it's way through the 2nd hand vehicles.

Lets see... Skip this if you don't feel like knowing how that tidbit works here:
Quote:
The BPM is based on the age of the car. It's derived as a percentage of the catalog-value of the car, excluding VAT. For a new car this percentage is 45.2%.

The discount is based on month's and years:

Age of the car - Discount
Less then a month - 4%
1-2 months - 7%
2-3 months - 10%
3-6 months - 15%
6-12 months - 24%
1-2 years - 37%
2-3 years - 47%
3-4 years - 57%
4-5 years - 66%
5-6 years - 72%
6-7 years - 77%
7-8 years - 82%
8-9 years - 86%
9+ years - 90%

Basically this results in the following calculus:

If I buy a 2002 GT Mustang (which has a retail price of $22,965). We convert that to euro's we get €17,663.40.

The BPM on that thing is 45.2% of the price, resulting in €7983.86. So, if I bought it new as it was just released, my purchase price would be € 25647.26. That's $ 33,353.84.

According to the above statement We can state the car is 4 to 5 years old, depending on the month of manufacture. We take 4 years as an example. So that'd net us 66% discount on the BPM.

66% of €7983.86 is €5269.35. So we're still left with an additional fee of €2714.51 that are just taxes (and still excluding the VAT) that goes on the price. So for us, that same car would cost €20377.91 euro's, which puts it at around $26500. And at that price, the car is still in the US, and is just entered into the license-plate system here. Not to mention that the VAT isn't even added yet (which is 17.5% of the price including the BPM (taxes over taxes... Something similar is going on here with fuel prices, we're paying taxes over taxes ). So shipping also comes to the whole price. And don't forget to include the additional costs for maintenance at this moment, which is why I would support Ford if they ever decided to move US vehicles to the EU market.

It's even worse for a new one as you can imagine. An example? Copying this straight from the website of one of the importers:
Ford USA Mustang 4.0 V6 - € 40.900 - $ 53,195.52
Ford USA Mustang GT V8 - € 50.900 - $ 66,198.78
The point being, the cost of cars in the Netherlands is faced with excess taxes. Add to that the extra shipping costs in getting the vehicle, aswell as the extra costs for maintenance, and you end up with a higher price then a comparable car here in terms of luxury.

As to engine power the taxes on the fuel start playing a significant role. More engine power usually mean less economical, and thus they're less desirable. I figure it works the same in the US. It's just that the higher EU fuel-prices tend to make the threshold higher.

Older Mustangs however are another story. I don't own an old one, and so don't really know how that works, but I suppose the BPM is almost nil (if it isn't completely gone by then, and the base-retail price is pretty low as you can imagine) due to the age of the car, and the roadtax for vehicles of 25 years and over is dropped (zo no roadtaxes)... This just leaves gas prices, and maintenance.

And then there is the idea all US cars have a soft suspension, resulting in the 'float-over-the-road' feeling, which I wouldn't like personally, aswell as most Europeans I suppose. That could also put off EU folks of buying a US car.

Still doesn't take away the fact that I am indeed wondering why the EU line-up is so different from the US one.
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Old 02-09-2007   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pcfrisch View Post
I just read somewhere that it is a good time to buy Ford stock, If only we could see the future.
Ford is one of the most risky stocks to invest in, for the following reasons:

1. Common stock does not control the company. The Ford family owns virtually all of the special class preferred stock that has actual voting power. I make it a point to NEVER buy stock that has no voting power and is prone to being sacrificed in order to protect the preferred stock which I cannot buy. Much of the problems plaguing Ford stem from the fact that a very small group from what is obviously a thoroughly polluted gene pool cling to control of the company and have been making extremely bad management decisions.

2. Bill Ford is STILL in charge of the company, despite having "fired" himself upward to his current post as Chairman of the Board. The extent to which he still meddles with the hired help (ie, Mullaly) is lagely unknown and much to be feared.

3. Ford is technically bankrupt. The recent $20billion they borrowed represented every bit of capital value the company had, and more. Their stock is now worth about $15billion, meaning they have an actual net worth of MINUS $5billion. I make it a point never to invest in a bankrupt company.

4. Ford's own projections PLAN to lose 1/4 of their business share in the next 2 years. Currently, they are on track to do exactly that. In the process they will shrink to a ghostly shell of their former self, with fewer employees in America than most small retailers! They will rank in sales somewhere below Toyota and Daimler Chrysler, at best, with a genuine chance of sinking below struggling Nissan as well.

5. Ford gambled several years ago that they could extract 10 years of healthy sales from the redesigned F150, Ford 500, Explorer, Escape and Freestyle models. This in spite of the clear evidence that 5 year cycles were already obsolete, and something closer to a 4 year cycle would be needed in the near future. Sales in 2006 and 2007 are tracking exactly where a 10 year old design would track, showing large declines - but after only 3 or 4 years.

6. Ford's ongoing cannibalization of their future model pipeline and their suicidal orgy of ridding themselves of the huge bulk of their most talented engineering and management talent will NOT help them to react quickly to their poor planning. We are already seeing the signs of talent-deprivation, with the new Edge arriving 600 pounds overweight and yet still lacking the third row seating its competition has offered for a decade. Even the modest improvements slated for the renamed GT500's and Montegos (nee, Taurus and Sable) will not arrive until 2008, along with any help for the abruptly fading F150's (2008.5 is likely for them). Ford even managed to get their donkey before the pickup truck by plunking huge bucks into updating the strong selling F250-450 lines BEFORE the faltering F150's, thus reinforcing models already running at peack capacity that needed no reinforcing, while letting the key F150 wait another 2 years for help.

7. Ford is begininning a wild gamble in China, where the investment of billions will drain their withering resources, and lock up those resources indefinitely (probably forever) in an investment where they are the junior partner who owns nothing (all real estate in Red China is owned by the state) but a piece of paper filled with lies.

8. Technically, Ford's stock price has not yet factored in the full effects of their "Way Forward" plan. Their huge cash position (gained of course by mortaging their entire future) is nothing more than an invitation to such as Red China to bamboozle the boys from Detroit once again. Look for them to blow the bankroll on everything BUT rebuilding their American business. When this becomes apparent and they run into the inevitable government barriers in Europe and Canada against laying off workers or closing factories, look for the pitiful remnant in the United States to receive a huge hit (consult what is currently going on at DC for an indication of this - they are laying off another 10,000 Americans because they simply can't AFFORD to lay people off in Canada or Germany due to the high cost. Americans are now the third world resource for labor reductions - our overhead costs for such things are a fraction of those in Europe or Canada).

If you want a good investment tip, PM me and I'll give you a hand.

Stay away from Ford unless you really want to gamble. Better you should visit Vegas - your odds are better, and at least they have pretty girls running around serving cheap booze.
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Old 02-09-2007   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko- View Post
It's even worse for a new one as you can imagine. An example? Copying this straight from the website of one of the importers:
Ford USA Mustang 4.0 V6 - € 40.900 - $ 53,195.52
Ford USA Mustang GT V8 - € 50.900 - $ 66,198.78
Man, as much as I like my Mustang, for those kind of prices - if I were in Europe - I'd have to just go look for one of those Opel Lotus Omegas - the Opels that Lotus 'tuned'. A twin-turbo six banger in a saloon car that, theoretically, was potentially as fast - or faster than - a Terminator Cobra and from most reports handled like, well, a Lotus all while being a fairly comfortable ride with some luxury appointments. Nice. They are older cars now, so I don't guess that tax would apply. Of course, they may all be in the hands of collectors since they were a limited run.
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Old 02-09-2007   #10 (permalink)
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Default The Netherlands

I have visited the Netherlands several times, and must say I like your country a great deal.

Sorry to read about your tax barriers, but there are some interesting things that happen when governments sit down to dicker major trade issues - things change.

Many Americans, having never left the womb, have no idea of the situation elsewhere. Europeans contend with huge tax barriers designed to make car ownership expensive (the taxes you tell us about in your post) as well as VAT (value added taxes) invisibly imbedded in the cost of most items (we do it a bit differently over here, where we pretend huge corporations are "people" and tax them as if they were individuals - either way, the taxes are in the cost the customer pays). Fuel taxes are particularly high (in comparison to ours).

My point is that, indeed, all these items are highly taxed - yet people still are buying vehicles and driving them around. Its a strong market, despite all the official taxes aimed at driving everyone to climb aboard the local bus instead. Human nature is contrary that way.

Given that ALL vehicles must jump through the same set of hoops, and in most cases our emission standards are higher than Europe's, American cars could, indeed, find a ready market there.

GM could do the same thing, adding Chevies to their Opel dealers, etc.

The largest hurdle in launching a new marque is the dealer network. In the case of Ford and Opel, these are well-established and thriving operations that could well benefit from the addition of selected offerings from America.

I have a hard time believing that any sane Opel dealer would turn down a franchise to sell Corvettes, for instance.

In short, if the Dutch government's trade representatives were approached by the likes of Ford and GM about importing vehicles, while opening the ball for the EU and US governments to warm up to the idea of a more free-market relationship, many good things might roll downhill to the Dutch consumer.

Or not. My motto has always been that it does no harm to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko- View Post
Possibly correct. The issue that plagues us here in the Netherlands is the additional taxes that get added to the vehicle just to get it licensed. If you want a numberplate for it you start out by taking the price of the vehicle, and then adding BPM to it (and yes, that's a purely dutch thing, the rest of Europe doesn't have it AFAIK).

The BPM (Taxes on Personal Motorvehicles) is basically just taxes on a new vehicle, but as you can imagine this also works it's way through the 2nd hand vehicles.

Lets see... Skip this if you don't feel like knowing how that tidbit works here:
The point being, the cost of cars in the Netherlands is faced with excess taxes. Add to that the extra shipping costs in getting the vehicle, aswell as the extra costs for maintenance, and you end up with a higher price then a comparable car here in terms of luxury.

As to engine power the taxes on the fuel start playing a significant role. More engine power usually mean less economical, and thus they're less desirable. I figure it works the same in the US. It's just that the higher EU fuel-prices tend to make the threshold higher.

Older Mustangs however are another story. I don't own an old one, and so don't really know how that works, but I suppose the BPM is almost nil (if it isn't completely gone by then, and the base-retail price is pretty low as you can imagine) due to the age of the car, and the roadtax for vehicles of 25 years and over is dropped (zo no roadtaxes)... This just leaves gas prices, and maintenance.

And then there is the idea all US cars have a soft suspension, resulting in the 'float-over-the-road' feeling, which I wouldn't like personally, aswell as most Europeans I suppose. That could also put off EU folks of buying a US car.

Still doesn't take away the fact that I am indeed wondering why the EU line-up is so different from the US one.
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Old 02-09-2007   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JB02GT View Post
Man, as much as I like my Mustang, for those kind of prices - if I were in Europe - I'd have to just go look for one of those Opel Lotus Omegas - the Opels that Lotus 'tuned'. A twin-turbo six banger in a saloon car that, theoretically, was potentially as fast - or faster than - a Terminator Cobra and from most reports handled like, well, a Lotus all while being a fairly comfortable ride with some luxury appointments. Nice. They are older cars now, so I don't guess that tax would apply. Of course, they may all be in the hands of collectors since they were a limited run.
The prices I've seen for Mustang GT's in the UK are much lower than those - including a few friends who have actually imported "Boss 302" models complete with lots of after-market goodies. As I recall, the import overhead and extra profit for the British dealer was around $5000 more than the same car sold over here - a good deal as the lady who was seeking my guidance in England regarded it.

I have no doubt that the impact of the local Dutch taxes might indeed be that extreme - check what a Mustang GT retails for in Tokyo, for instance. I ran across this item a few years back, and by the time they paid for the full disassembly and reassembly (required by the insane trade barriers in Japan); the import duties (some of the highest on earth); and other fees, the lowly Ford was costing about the same as a high end Porsche does here in the US!

The fact is that Japan only wants to SELL us things, not BUY from us in return. That we allow them to get away with this is one of the great mysteries I have never comprehended.
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Old 02-09-2007   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
GM could do the same thing, adding Chevies to their Opel dealers, etc.
Chevrolet actually DID go onto the market here. They are marketing under the Chevrolet name and brand tho. See http://www.chevrolet.nl/

Jeep and Dodge are under the same roof aswell (http://www.dodge.nl/ and http://www.jeep.nl/). Jeep basically already had a foothold over here, and adding Didge to it wasn't that big of a leap.

Can't really recall any direct US brands that have started marketing here other then those two tho.

Ford has it's dealer network, but the line-up is pretty standard. Or look at the company-vehicles. Again... pretty standard. The only odd ones in the bunch are the Focus Coupe-Cabriolet, the Focus Wagon Van and the Ford Ranger. The rest you'll see driving around on a daily basis.

Ford threw out the Puma, StreetKa, SportKa, Cougar. They stopped with the Cosworth engines. Heck... There aren't any really special Fords around anymore. Ford has dropped to decent middle-class. Not much wrong with that, unless one wants to stand out.

The fact that I do drive something other then standard is purely personal choice, and the willingness to spend more money on driving then I have to. If I wanted something that ran semi-decent, and didn't cost me too much, I might've gone for a Ford Focus... But who would even look up when I'd drive by then
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Old 02-09-2007   #13 (permalink)
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Default Chevy

Interesting about the Chevrolet dealers (though a search found VERY few of them in Europe) In fact, I get the impression the Dutch market might be a test situation.

I knew about the Jeeps, and had heard they were adding some Dodge models too.

With Europe about to experience a Japanese full-court import press such as we saw about 20 years ago, it will be interesting to see how they handle the problem. Japan WILL NOT reciprocate when it comes to trade barriers - unless you MAKE them.

In our case, our mild complaints yielded some final assembly plants (about 25% of Japanese branded products are now assembled in the U.S. for the American market) and a few jobs building parts for them.

It was either this or actually enforce trade barriers similar to Japan's - and our government was unwilling to do that. The fact that the American goverment won't even enforce our own laughably weak trade rules or border controls makes me suspect we came out ahead going this route.

Europe, of course, has a lot fewer qualms about protecting their markets and jobs, so Japan Inc. may have trouble with their plans.

I was just reading a review that shows the Japanese home market shrinking, and their economy becoming more and more reliant on exports to the US and Europe. When they start dumping products in Europe (which is just starting - they are very sly about "boiling the trade lobster" veeeerrrrry slowly so that it doesn't realize the problem until its cooked)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko- View Post
Chevrolet actually DID go onto the market here. They are marketing under the Chevrolet name and brand tho. See http://www.chevrolet.nl/

Jeep and Dodge are under the same roof aswell (http://www.dodge.nl/ and http://www.jeep.nl/). Jeep basically already had a foothold over here, and adding Didge to it wasn't that big of a leap.

Can't really recall any direct US brands that have started marketing here other then those two tho.

Ford has it's dealer network, but the line-up is pretty standard. Or look at the company-vehicles. Again... pretty standard. The only odd ones in the bunch are the Focus Coupe-Cabriolet, the Focus Wagon Van and the Ford Ranger. The rest you'll see driving around on a daily basis.

Ford threw out the Puma, StreetKa, SportKa, Cougar. They stopped with the Cosworth engines. Heck... There aren't any really special Fords around anymore. Ford has dropped to decent middle-class. Not much wrong with that, unless one wants to stand out.

The fact that I do drive something other then standard is purely personal choice, and the willingness to spend more money on driving then I have to. If I wanted something that ran semi-decent, and didn't cost me too much, I might've gone for a Ford Focus... But who would even look up when I'd drive by then
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Old 02-10-2007   #14 (permalink)
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Ford has its eggs in the right basket over there in Europe.. but not here in the USA.. so sad
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Old 02-28-2007   #15 (permalink)
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I have a short story to tell in reference to US Fords coming to European markets:

My car had to be changed to German specs here (red turn signals are illegal in Germany, so they added amber signals to my Stang. That screwed up my CAN bus on the car and the SJB went up in flames. I changed it back to red signals, but that´s another story).

Well, while finding me a knowledgeable Ford dealer here in Germany (usually the Ford dealers in towns with American garrisons can work on US Fords pretty good) I talked to several of these guys. I´ve been told that each Ford dealership in Germany needs to train 2 mechanics on a new model. There are almost 3.000 dealerships in Germany, so if you introduce lets say the Mustang to this market they would have to train over 6.000 mechanics for that specific vehicle. The guy thought that´s not worth it. I looked into the statistics of the DMV here in Germany, about 120 new Ford Mustangs were registered here last year.
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