Originally posted by hmarv347 I say....let's empty out all the prisons of the PEOPLE who KILLED using a handgun and lay the handgun in the prison cell. Isn't that what all the anti-gun lobbiests are saying? The handgun commited the crime NOT the PERSON. When are we going to take responsibility for our OWN ACTIONS and stop pointing the finger where it doesn't belong.
Here's another question. Which kills more people. Cigarettes or handguns each year in the US. Lets see a comparision of "smoking/second hand smoke" related deaths to handguns.
And with the homicide rates being the age group of 15 - 24 maybe they need to be tougher on the street gangs that are obtaining these ILLEGAL GUNS to assist in their drug trafficing. There are more problems to be taken care of to cure the homicides in this country than just banning handguns. Open your eyes and take the blindfolds off. Quote all the statistics you want but still look at the underlying problem. It's not handguns. It's poor parenting.
The kid who killed all those people in Sallislaw, OK, and here in Arkansas both had "good, churchgoing" parents.
Re: Kids, tHe problem stems more from both parents having to work due to wages not keeping up with inflation over time. Here in Arkansas and in Oklahoma, median income is $24,000/yr for a family of four. The kids are being raised in little "kid factories" called Day Care by people who see them as little walking dollar bills. Quality day care is not something these people can afford. But that's another thread.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Looks like cigarettes are a bigger killer than guns.
About 418,000 Americans died from cigarette smoking in 1990. In fact, one in every five deaths in the United States is smoking-related [1]. Every year smoking kills more than 276,000 men and 142,000 women [1].
About 10 million people in the United States have died from causes attributed to smoking (including heart disease, emphysema, and other respiratory diseases) since the first Surgeon General's report on smoking and health in 1964 -- 2 million of these deaths were the result of lung cancer along [2].
Between 1960 and 1990, deaths from lung cancer among women have increased by more than 400 percent -- exceeding breast cancer deaths in the mid-1980s [3]. The American Cancer Society estimated that in 1994, 59,000 women died of lung cancer and 46,000 died from breast cancer [4].
Originally posted by JUSTNLX I personally have had enough of this BS.
It takes a sick mind to want to kill someone. It does not matter what the weapon of choice is. It just makes it easier to blame an object for it, a gun in this case, then to deal with the fact that there are some sick freakin people out there. You can quote all the stats. you want, it still takes the sick mind behind the object to kill.
Just had to say it again.
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Now you're understanding the nature of propaganda to advance a political agenda. Death by doctor occurs, usually in surgery when the person has little chance at life.
It's pretty sick to attack the people who heal others to advance a political agenda. But if you care to look, a lot of the statistics come from emergency rooms. So you attack the source of information rather than the information itself.
Just to add... I like watching ER shows on TV, and I've noticed that doctors are responsible for saving many people who would otherwise die from gunshot wounds.
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The kid who killed all those people in Sallislaw, OK, and here in Arkansas both had "good, churchgoing" parents.
Re: Kids, tHe problem stems more from both parents having to work due to wages not keeping up with inflation over time. Here in Arkansas and in Oklahoma, median income is $24,000/yr for a family of four. The kids are being raised in little "kid factories" called Day Care by people who see them as little walking dollar bills. Quality day care is not something these people can afford. But that's another thread.
Just because a child's parents are "GOOD CHURCH GOING" people doesn't mean they have the parenting skills to really teach COMMON SENCE. I know good church going people who just let their children run wild and don't want to "HURT THEIR SPIRIT". I was taught...by MY PARENTS NOT to play with guns or inflict harm to others. Hence, I have no desire to kill anyone. If someone really wishes to kill they will kill by any means. Whether it be by handgun or knife. It's still the PERSON not the weapon.
Again, Daycares are not the problem for today's ill's. It still is a result of parenting and nowhere else.
Now, what about the 8th grade child who decides to hand his friend a cigarette. Isn't he also inflicting harm and a greater potential for death of an innocent person. Statistics have proven the leading cause of death is CIGARETTE RELATED. Why not channel efforts into that killer. You would be able to save more lives that way.
If we don't want to debate the cigarettes..lets look at automobile related deaths each year. Also Alcohol related deaths. Statistics, statistics. we can all copy and paste too.
So lets ban guns, automobiles, and alcohol. Sure would be a boring life. No mustangs to talk about or drive.
Just because a child's parents are "GOOD CHURCH GOING" people doesn't mean they have the parenting skills to really teach COMMON SENCE. I know good church going people who just let their children run wild and don't want to "HURT THEIR SPIRIT". I was taught...by MY PARENTS NOT to play with guns or inflict harm to others. Hence, I have no desire to kill anyone. If someone really wishes to kill they will kill by any means. Whether it be by handgun or knife. It's still the PERSON not the weapon.
Again, Daycares are not the problem for today's ill's. It still is a result of parenting and nowhere else.
Now, what about the 8th grade child who decides to hand his friend a cigarette. Isn't he also inflicting harm and a greater potential for death of an innocent person. Statistics have proven the leading cause of death is CIGARETTE RELATED. Why not channel efforts into that killer. You would be able to save more lives that way.
If we don't want to debate the cigarettes..lets look at automobile related deaths each year. Also Alcohol related deaths. Statistics, statistics. we can all copy and paste too.
So lets ban guns, automobiles, and alcohol. Sure would be a boring life. No mustangs to talk about or drive.
You know what? I somke, and I think cigarettes SHOULD be regulated, specifically, regulate the amount of nicotine in cigarettes to natural levels or lower. The naturally bad taste of natural tobacco will take over from there. I think it's a great idea, but it was quashed by conservatives.
Re: parents - I've seen good and bad kids in the SAME family raised by the SAME parents. A lot of them straighten out in time, but some kids are more highly strung than others, and some are just plain bad. Parental influence does a lot to mediate childish impulses, as does peer to peer interaction -but it's tough when both paents are working 2-3 jobs now to maintain a minimum standard of living.
When I was a kid, there were all kinds of kids in the neighborhood, and all kinds of parents around. Now, the neighborhoods I live in are ghost towns.
Re: autos that's a silly argument. But guess what? automobiles ARE regulated!! And I for one am glad, every time someone I love rides with me. ABS, Air Bags, Crumple Zones, Intrusion Bars were all mandated by the Feds. And I'm also glad that not everyone can go buy a car and drive it.
How about this: Everybody who wants to buy a gun has to go through 2 years of Police Academy to receive a permit to carry. They should have to renew their licensure. I think that's be GREAT!
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Originally posted by kscoyote but people buy handguns to kill -no mistake about that, and innocent bystanders end up getting killed or wounded.
I own two guns... the only things I've killed are a few turkeys and a rattlesnake. I can almost understand the rattlesnake being innocent, except for the fact that it had bitten somebody already, and the turkeys we were hunting for food, wild turkey tastes much better than store bought...
That's the only time my guns (a 20-gauge shotgun, and a .38 pistol) have killed or wounded ANYTHING!
Where do you get your ideas???
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Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
Last edited by 74stang2togo; 12-12-2002 at 03:33 AM.
Adam what you called “useless crap” some people call tired of the same bull crap. It is the same freaking debate. Some holyer then thou, that think they know everything, want to put regulations on law-abiding people. So along come a couple of people that want to lighten up the bull crap and its called "useless crap" Some are just fed-up with this shite. This topic has been played. I, for one, am tired of the same old crap!
I, personally, don’t care how intelligent you think you are, intelligent people do dumb assp shite everyday. Including murder!
“but people buy handguns to kill -no mistake about that”
I own two handguns that where handed down. My dad, son and I go target shooting not people shooting. Believe it or not most people, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, know the difference.
One more thing, if you come into my house, I’m going to beat the F#$%! out of you with a baseball bat –no mistake about that. I want you to hurt and hurt bad. You will not be as lucky to be shot by ME! Not my handgun!
Anyway you can continue with this same old shite. I’ve had enough!
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I totaly agree with you Tony... someone busts in my house they are not gonna get lucky enough to get shot.. i will beat them down as fast as they came in.. There is nothing wrong with owning a gun if you know how to respect them, infact i love to shoot trap with my friends. i just love the kick of the 12 guage..
Tony, i didnt mean all was useless crap.. bad wording on my part. sorry. I should have said not pertaining to the current topic.. and also sorry if i left or deleted any wrong posts on this thread.. you know how it only gives a small description of the posts to keep and the posts to delete...
I like shooting guns... I was brought up around them my entire life... I see no problem in owning a gun if you are responsible.. but unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible people out there that just can not be trusted to have them..
Originally posted by Vortex Tony, i didnt mean all was useless crap.. bad wording on my part. sorry. I should have said not pertaining to the current topic.. and also sorry if i left or deleted any wrong posts on this thread.. you know how it only gives a small description of the posts to keep and the posts to delete...
I like shooting guns... I was brought up around them my entire life... I see no problem in owning a gun if you are responsible.. but unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible people out there that just can not be trusted to have them..
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally posted by 74stang2togo
I own two guns... the only things I've killed are a few turkeys and a rattlesnake. I can almost understand the rattlesnake being innocent, except for the fact that it had bitten somebody already, and the turkeys were hunting for food, wild turkey tastes much better than store bought...
That's the only time my guns (a 20-gauge shotgun, and a .38 pistol) have killed or wounded ANYTHING!
Where do you get your ideas???
You're shooting in a rural environment, I think we'd both agree that you wouldn't go shooting turkeys on a city block. That's where a lot of the accidental shootings take place.
I say make training mandatory. If you can't pass certification, you don't need a gun.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Last edited by ScottHalliday; 12-12-2002 at 03:54 AM.
You're shooting in a rural environment, I think we'd both agree that you wouldn't go shooting turkeys on a city block. That's where a lot of the accidental shootings take place.
I say make training mandatory. If you can't pass certification, you don't need a gun.
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. INNER CITY is where most accidental shooting accur, right? You just said so. these INNER CITY shoots could be directly tied into GANG VIOLENCE. Drive-by shootings. Most guns in the hands of these INNER CITY THUGS are not registered to begin with. They are stolen form other crimes commited.
I guess the next defense will be if the guns weren't in the houses for these thugs to steal then they still would not be out on the street. Well, they would still be breaking into houses. But now they would just beat you over the head with a baseball bat or stab you to death. This would all be made possible due to the lack of self defense.
I would rather everyone know that I have a gun in my house and I'm not afraid to use it. This way when they break into my house and treaten bodily harm to me or my family, they are aware that they will be leaving in a body bag.
Just think...regulated automobiles have had 139,699 fatalities last year in this country. What was the handgun related deaths? 16,000 ? And lets not forget cigarettes - 418,000 deaths. I still think your barking up the wrong tree. 16,000 is a small percentage compared to other great killers out there. JMO
I say make training mandatory. If you can't pass certification, you don't need a gun.
That's the way I feel about computers and cars, not guns...
People who can't check their own oil or change their own tires for instance....
Or can't even figure out that its a CD-ROM drive, not a cupholder on their PC....
Guns are tools, they are only weapons in the hands of the wrong people, and no amount of training or certification will change that... If someone were to break into my house and steal my .38 while I wasn't home... those regulations wouldn't mean a thing, they could still use the gun to kill...
Since guns are tools... should you require certification to use a hammer? think about all the hit thumbs each year... If everyone were "certified" for "hammer ownership" and "hammer usage" there would not be so many injuries to thumbs annualy!
Just some food for thought....
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1976 Ford Mustang II Ghia: 302 with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Dynomax Blackjack headers, 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster Super 44s. RJS 11-gallon fuel cell, C4 tranny, chrome 16" pony wheels, fuzzy dice, brown vinyl half-top, and painted in the tackiest color ever (harvest gold, that's why I call it "The Goldenrod").
Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
