[kscoyote]

Originally posted by hmarv347


Ok, now we are getting somewhere. INNER CITY is where most accidental shooting accur, right? You just said so. these INNER CITY shoots could be directly tied into GANG VIOLENCE. Drive-by shootings. Most guns in the hands of these INNER CITY THUGS are not registered to begin with. They are stolen form other crimes commited.

I guess the next defense will be if the guns weren't in the houses for these thugs to steal then they still would not be out on the street. Well, they would still be breaking into houses. But now they would just beat you over the head with a baseball bat or stab you to death. This would all be made possible due to the lack of self defense.

I would rather everyone know that I have a gun in my house and I'm not afraid to use it. This way when they break into my house and treaten bodily harm to me or my family, they are aware that they will be leaving in a body bag.

Just think...regulated automobiles have had 139,699 fatalities last year in this country. What was the handgun related deaths? 16,000 ? And lets not forget cigarettes - 418,000 deaths. I still think your barking up the wrong tree. 16,000 is a small percentage compared to other great killers out there. JMO

Most of em buy them at pawn shops, like everybody else. You have to be convicted first.

IF you've got a gun and you tell everybody that you have one and are not afraid to use it. Logic dictates that anyone who is angry with you will bring a gun to the altercation. They have the element of surprise, you don't.

16,000 is larger than most cities in Kansas. And those deaths are senseless.

Overall
39,595
38,505
35,957
34,040
32,436


These are the totals for 1993-1997. That's nearly 200,000 people

64000 people each year are injured. Read the report.

[kscoyote]

Originally posted by 74stang2togo


That's the way I feel about computers and cars, not guns...

People who can't check their own oil or change their own tires for instance....

Or can't even figure out that its a CD-ROM drive, not a cupholder on their PC....

Guns are tools, they are only weapons in the hands of the wrong people, and no amount of training or certification will change that... If someone were to break into my house and steal my .38 while I wasn't home... those regulations wouldn't mean a thing, they could still use the gun to kill...

Since guns are tools... should you require certification to use a hammer? think about all the hit thumbs each year... If everyone were "certified" for "hammer ownership" and "hammer usage" there would not be so many injuries to thumbs annualy!

Just some food for thought....

Guns aren't tools, guns are weapons.

[wagstdy]

Uhhhhh, I can't believe we're debating guns on a Mustang site.

Oh well, here's my 2 cents worth.....if you break into my house I'm going to shoot you with every round in every gun I can get my hands on and when the bullets are gone THEN I'm going to beat you with my baseball bat.

Just remember, "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" and "he who has the biggest gun wins!"

We need more public executions.

We need better parenting.

We need spankings in schools.

God Bless Clint Eastwood.

[countymounty]

Originally posted by kscoyote
Weekly







In 1997, 32,436 deaths resulted from firearm-related injuries,

All law enforcement agencies in the U.S. are mandated to report their statistics to the FBI and the FBI issues a annual report on them. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report from 1997 10,369 people were murdered with firearms in the United States.

That means that 22067 of these deaths were not murders. That means that these 22067 deaths were either suicides or homicides. Buy the way, the legal definition of a homicide is any time someone dies due to the act of another. So out of the homicides these are either accidental shooting that were not considered a crime, or they were counted as justifiable homicides…or self defense.

So lets look at some more statistics

In 1997 10,369 people were murdered with firearms in the United States.
In 1997 16,189 people were killed in drink driving accidents.
In 1997 25,778 were killed in driving accidents.
So Drunk drivers kill more people then criminal do.
So bad drivers in cars kill more people than criminals do.

In a previous Gun debate thread kscoyote made a quote and I replied but never got an answer to my question so I will ask it again……… here it goes

Originally posted by kscoyote


I think in an area where the police are 5 minutes away, a person should show a compelling reason for having one. My opinion, you're welcome to disagree.


Now don’t you use Nitrous?
Well what is the purpose of that? Is not you vehicle capable of driving the speed limit?
Did you know that Nitrous is a chemical commonly abused as an inhalant?
The purpose of Nitrous is to make a car go faster, which in turn means it is probable going to be speeding, which is against the law.

Maybe I think a person should show a compelling reason for having Nitrous in a street car.
Or why don’t we just ban it outright?
Some state are actually trying to pass laws that ban the use of Nitrous on all street vehicles.
Should we ban all use of Nitrous? Some people only use it at the tracks, they are not breaking any law.

The fact is a lot of people just like to go target shooting, hunt, or have a gun around for self defense, and they are not breaking any laws.
We should not ban, guns, Nitrous, alcohol, cars or forks just because some people abuse them.

[kscoyote]

Originally posted by countymounty


All law enforcement agencies in the U.S. are mandated to report their statistics to the FBI and the FBI issues a annual report on them. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report from 1997 10,369 people were murdered with firearms in the United States.

That means that 22067 of these deaths were not murders. That means that these 22067 deaths were either suicides or homicides. Buy the way, the legal definition of a homicide is any time someone dies due to the act of another. So out of the homicides these are either accidental shooting that were not considered a crime, or they were counted as justifiable homicides…or self defense.

So lets look at some more statistics

In 1997 10,369 people were murdered with firearms in the United States.
In 1997 16,189 people were killed in drink driving accidents.
In 1997 25,778 were killed in driving accidents.
So Drunk drivers kill more people then criminal do.
So bad drivers in cars kill more people than criminals do.

In a previous Gun debate thread kscoyote made a quote and I replied but never got an answer to my question so I will ask it again……… here it goes

Originally posted by kscoyote


I think in an area where the police are 5 minutes away, a person should show a compelling reason for having one. My opinion, you're welcome to disagree.


Now don’t you use Nitrous?
Well what is the purpose of that? Is not you vehicle capable of driving the speed limit?
Did you know that Nitrous is a chemical commonly abused as an inhalant?
The purpose of Nitrous is to make a car go faster, which in turn means it is probable going to be speeding, which is against the law.

Maybe I think a person should show a compelling reason for having Nitrous in a street car.
Or why don’t we just ban it outright?
Some state are actually trying to pass laws that ban the use of Nitrous on all street vehicles.
Should we ban all use of Nitrous? Some people only use it at the tracks, they are not breaking any law.

The fact is a lot of people just like to go target shooting, hunt, or have a gun around for self defense, and they are not breaking any laws.
We should not ban, guns, Nitrous, alcohol, cars or forks just because some people abuse them.

I didn't answer the question because it's a silly question because it's off topic. Nitrous isn't used to kill people. If suddenly people started using Nitrous as a propellant for missiles or bombmaking, then it should be controlled, as are fertilizer sales.

Re: Should Nitrous be allowed on the street? My answer is no, unless you have a racing license, and the daily driver is the only car owned by the individual.

Suicides and homocides are as relevant to the debate as murders.

Suicide by gun is irreversible. Suicide by narcotics or by knife is treatable if the person can be treated in time.

So, by your logic, we should shoot all drinking drivers? They are more of a threat than criminals, que 'est que ce?

[74stang2togo]

Originally posted by kscoyote


Guns aren't tools, guns are weapons.

A gun is only a weapon in the hands of the wrong person... when used for hunting or entertainment purposes, it is a tool. When used in self-defence... It IS a weapon, but a weapon that is used for the right purpose. Therefore... All guns can be USED as weapons, but are not all weapons at any given time.

I have a 4" blade pocket knife... I only use it as a TOOL... but, if attacked, and it was the only thing I had with me.... It would becoe a weapon... same deal with a gun.

[countymounty]

Originally posted by kscoyote


I didn't answer the question because it's a silly question because it's off topic. Nitrous isn't used to kill people. If suddenly people started using Nitrous as a propellant for missiles or bombmaking, then it should be controlled, as are fertilizer sales.

It seems that anything that might prove a point against your stand is off topic.
Nitrous does kill people, and the use of it can cause death…just like guns… I asked if you knew that Nitrous is a chemical commonly abused as an inhalant, well apparently you don’t know much about this topic to make this statement.
Nitrous is used in “huffing” in order to get high. The Nitrous when huffed takes the place of the oxygen and causes oxygen depreciation which causes the light headed felling when huffing. The actual “High” the people feel the brain cells dying as they huff. Many of the participants of inhalants pass out from the lack of oxygen. Chemical inhalants are one of the commonly used inhalants , and are extremely easy to overdose on (its hard to regulate how mush you take in when you are huffing). Nitrous is an inhalant is very commonly used by the younger generation.

Suicides and homocides are as relevant to the debate as murders.

Your darn right they are….as for suicides if they don’t have a gun they will use pills, knives, or drive off in a lake…..and the homicides that are not classified as murders,… that just proves that these “non criminal” taking of human life are justifiable uses of firearms in self defense …

Suicide by gun is irreversible. Suicide by narcotics or by knife is treatable if the person can be treated in time.

How stupid is this statement?… a gun is irreversible but narcotics or knives are treatable
According to your own facts an estimated 64,207 persons sustained NONFATAL firearm-related injuries and were treated in U.S. hospital emergency departments; approximately 40% required inpatient hospital care. (ALL OF THESE PEOPLE LIVED AND 60% WERE TREATED AND RELEASED WITHOUT BEING ADMITTEED TO THE HOSPITAL) All methods are irreversible if they are done correctly. Its just how well you do the job and how much they really want it done. But you will probable think that this fact is off topic.

So, by your logic, we should shoot all drinking drivers? They are more of a threat than criminals, que 'est que ce?

Oh no, get it right, I’m using YOUR logic. And according to YOUR logic we should get rid of all cars because they cause those poor drunk guys to get in them and drive and kill more people that guns do. That your Logic and your red herring.

[hmarv347]

Originally posted by kscoyote


Suicide by gun is irreversible. Suicide by narcotics or by knife is treatable if the person can be treated in time.

OMG, do we know what SUICIDE IS?

Lets look at the definition...lol

Per Mr WEBSTER's Dictionary:

Suicide n. Self-murder: one guilty of self murder.

OK, now that we know what suicide is, HOW IN THE WORLD IS IT TREATABLE. YOUR DEAD ALREADY!!!!

Suicide is suicide. The definition isn't different pending the method of suicide. Now if you were meaning "ATTEMPTED SUICIDE" then that will be more logical. But your theory then on Sucide by gun being irreversible is false. While I was an EMT we answered calls where the person didn't quite succeed in there ATTEMPT to kill themselves (commit suicide).

[kscoyote]

Originally posted by 74stang2togo



A gun is only a weapon in the hands of the wrong person... when used for hunting or entertainment purposes, it is a tool. When used in self-defence... It IS a weapon, but a weapon that is used for the right purpose. Therefore... All guns can be USED as weapons, but are not all weapons at any given time.

I have a 4" blade pocket knife... I only use it as a TOOL... but, if attacked, and it was the only thing I had with me.... It would becoe a weapon... same deal with a gun.

A tool assists with work. Unless your work includes killing (police, military, etc.) it is a weapon.

A knife is a tool used for cutting. Hoses, apples, bread, whatever. A sword is a weapon.

[kscoyote]

Originally posted by hmarv347


OMG, do we know what SUICIDE IS?

Lets look at the definition...lol

Per Mr WEBSTER's Dictionary:

Suicide n. Self-murder: one guilty of self murder.

OK, now that we know what suicide is, HOW IN THE WORLD IS IT TREATABLE. YOUR DEAD ALREADY!!!!

Suicide is suicide. The definition isn't different pending the method of suicide. Now if you were meaning "ATTEMPTED SUICIDE" then that will be more logical. But your theory then on Sucide by gun being irreversible is false. While I was an EMT we answered calls where the person didn't quite succeed in there ATTEMPT to kill themselves (commit suicide).

Ahhh, but a person can be dead for, say 4-5 minutes, and can be resuscitated. That is a treatable suicide. In some states, the person can then be tried for murder or suicide. But, you're right, most would term it attempted suicide, and I think most legislation has caught up with modern medicine.

[countymounty]

Originally posted by kscoyote


A tool assists with work. Unless your work includes killing (police, military, etc.) it is a weapon.

I don’t think anywhere in my job description does it say I will be going around killing people. What is does say is that we have a responsibility to enforce laws and protect the general public and ourselves when needed. We can do that in a variety of way which include using any of the tools we carry……handcuffs, pepper spray, baton, taser, or our service pistol. Some tools are used more than others and none of then are carried for the purpose of killing.

A knife is a tool used for cutting. Hoses, apples, bread, whatever. A sword is a weapon.

And by the way, any knife which has a blade over 4” in length is defined by law as a lethal weapon. So what you should actually say is that when a knife is used as a tool for cutting, hoses, apples, bread, or whatever it is a tool, when it is used for a criminal purpose for stabbing, slashing or cutting another person or personal property it is a weapon……………..but dose this mean we should have knife control?…a knife ban?….how bout knife registration?…..or knife fingerprinting?

Some people use guns as weapons, some people use cars, forks, base ball bats, golf clubs, and knives as weapons.

All of these things have one thing in common….PEOPLE use them in criminals acts…..maybe we just need PEOPLE control?…or a PEOPLE ban?….how bout PEOPLE registration?…..or PEOPLE fingerprinting?

Or we could just start enforcing the current laws and actually send criminals to prison. Or is that too simple of an idea?

[hmarv347]

Originally posted by kscoyote



Ahhh, but a person can be dead for, say 4-5 minutes, and can be resuscitated. That is a treatable suicide. In some states, the person can then be tried for murder or suicide. But, you're right, most would term it attempted suicide, and I think most legislation has caught up with modern medicine.

Suicide is only when they suceed in the ATTEmpt to commit suicide. ANY other form of failue or resusitation would constitute Attempted suicide. Suicide is if they are DEAD. Not a resusitated dead person. An alive person could not have committed suicide and live to tell about it. But, they could have attempted suicide and live to tell about it.

Now back to guns....What about the two boys in Florida who beat thier father to death with a baseball bat. Should we ban baseball? Or should we place the kids in jail? Let's get real here, people who use a gun as a weapon and kill do so in less numbers than automobiles and cigarette companies. But you have already said you basically don't care about smoking deaths because you smoke. Interesting, What about those around you who YOU are KILLING with YOUR closen weapon....SMOKE!

418,000 people per year. Not injured. They are KILLED by cigarettes.

[Doug02]

geez, it's the energizer bunny thread, it keeps going and going and going.

[74stang2togo]

Originally posted by countymounty


I don’t think anywhere in my job description does it say I will be going around killing people. What is does say is that we have a responsibility to enforce laws and protect the general public and ourselves when needed. We can do that in a variety of way which include using any of the tools we carry……handcuffs, pepper spray, baton, taser, or our service pistol. Some tools are used more than others and none of then are carried for the purpose of killing.



And by the way, any knife which has a blade over 4” in length is defined by law as a lethal weapon. So what you should actually say is that when a knife is used as a tool for cutting, hoses, apples, bread, or whatever it is a tool, when it is used for a criminal purpose for stabbing, slashing or cutting another person or personal property it is a weapon……………..but dose this mean we should have knife control?…a knife ban?….how bout knife registration?…..or knife fingerprinting?

Some people use guns as weapons, some people use cars, forks, base ball bats, golf clubs, and knives as weapons.

All of these things have one thing in common….PEOPLE use them in criminals acts…..maybe we just need PEOPLE control?…or a PEOPLE ban?….how bout PEOPLE registration?…..or PEOPLE fingerprinting?

Or we could just start enforcing the current laws and actually send criminals to prison. Or is that too simple of an idea?

That's exactly the point! I couldn't have said it better myself!