Which is more likely to kill you; your GUN or your DOCTOR?
So... are you more likely to be killed by your gun or your doctor? Seems like a stupid question right? Not when you look at the statistics. Guns are responsible for more than 34,000 deaths a year! A pretty high number until you realize that more than TWICE that many, (80,000) people are killed due to medical malpractice! And even THESE numbers don't show the whole picture. Of those 34,000 gun deaths, HALF are suicides. NOT accidental, and NOT murders. So what's that leave... about 16,000? As for "deaths by Doctors", this only counts those that are reported by hospitals! NOT in private offices and NOT due to misdiagnoses. So lets take another look.
GUN deaths 16,000
DOCTOR deaths 80,000 +
Seems as thought we're MUCH safer with a gun in our homes than going to the hospital!
Oh, by the way, also included in those gun deaths are all those criminals killed by police officers and crime victims in defense of their lives. Somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million times a year guns are used by a private citizen to STOP or PREVENT a crime.
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Seems logical when people go to the hospital to escape death and sometimes succumb to whatever's ailing them from someone else's mistake, but people buy handguns to kill -no mistake about that, and innocent bystanders end up getting killed or wounded.
Your assertion that 1-2 million crimes are averted is a red herring. Please show some evidence that the persons holding the weapons weren't off-duty trained police officers.
1.2 Million people draw their weapons and only 16,000 people use them, eh? How many people were gravely wounded?
Let's have some specifics on the study and the methodology.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
In 1997, 32,436 deaths resulted from firearm-related injuries, making such injuries the second leading cause of injury mortality in the United States after motor-vehicle-related incidents (1). Also in 1997, an estimated 64,207 persons sustained nonfatal firearm-related injuries and were treated in U.S. hospital emergency departments (EDs); approximately 40% required inpatient hospital care. National firearm-related injury and death rates peaked in 1993, then began to decline (2). This report presents national data from 1993 through 1997, which showed that the decline in nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates was substantial and consistent by sex, race/ethnicity, age, and intent of injury.
A firearm-related injury was defined as a penetrating injury or gunshot wound from a weapon that uses a powder charge to fire a projectile (e.g., handguns, rifles, and shotguns). Data on nonfatal firearm-related injuries treated in U.S. hospital EDs were obtained from the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS) of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission. NEISS is a stratified probability sample of hospitals in the United States that have at least six beds and provide 24-hour emergency care (3). Each firearm-related injury treated in a NEISS hospital ED was assigned a sample weight; the weights were summed to provide national estimates of nonfatal injuries (3). In 1997, the number of participating NEISS hospitals increased from 91 to 101; therefore, for this analysis, national estimates of nonfatal injuries for prior years were statistically adjusted to account for the sampling frame update. Data on firearm-related deaths were obtained through death certificate data from CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (1), and population estimates were from the Bureau of the Census.
To examine trends in nonfatal firearm-related rates by intent of injury, sample weights for cases with unknown intent (i.e., 13.4% of nonfatal injuries during the 5-year period) were allocated to one of the three known categories--assault/legal intervention, intentionally self-inflicted, or unintentional injury. This allocation accounted for the quarterly variation in the percentage of weighted cases with unknown intent during the study period, ranging from 7.1% to 17.7%. Cases with unknown intent were allocated within each quarter based on the weighted distribution of cases with known intent for that quarter. Although the percentage of firearm-related deaths with unknown intent was minimal (i.e., 1.2% of deaths during the 5-year period), these cases also were allocated to maintain consistency.
National estimates of nonfatal firearm-related injuries, their standard errors, and 95% confidence intervals (CIs) for the percentage decline in rates were computed using SUDAAN software to account for the sample weights and the complex survey design of NEISS. For firearm-related deaths, standard errors of death rates were computed assuming deaths follow a Poisson probability distribution so that CIs for the percentage decline in rates accounted for random variation. Multiple linear regression was performed to test for quarterly trends over the 5-year period.
Overall, annual nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates declined consistently from 1993 through 1997. The annual nonfatal rate decreased 40.8%, from 40.5 per 100,000 (95% CI=22.6-58.4) in 1993 to 24.0 per 100,000 (95% CI=13.8-34.1) in 1997 (Table 1). This decline was accompanied by a decrease of 21.1% in the annual death rate from 15.4 per 100,000 (95% CI=15.2-15.5) in 1993 to 12.1 per 100,000 (95% CI=12.0-12.3) in 1997 (Table 2).
The declines in nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates generally were consistent across all population subgroups (Tables 1 and 2). The declines in nonfatal and fatal injury rates were similar for males (40.7% for nonfatal, 20.9% for fatal) and for females (42.1% for nonfatal, 23.2% for fatal). Declines in death rates for blacks and Hispanics were similar, and were both greater than the decline observed for non-Hispanic whites. For nonfatal injury rates, no consistent pattern was found in the estimated decline across age groups, but for fatal injury rates, age and percentage change were inversely related. With respect to intent, the declines in nonfatal injury rates were seen in assault-related, intentionally self-inflicted, and unintentional firearm-related injuries. However, the declines in homicide and unintentional injury death rates were approximately three times greater than that of the suicide rate.
Overall, quarterly fatal and nonfatal firearm-related injury rates showed statistically significant downward trends over the 5-year period adjusting for seasonal changes (overall predicted percentage declines were 36.6% and 17.3% for nonfatal and fatal injury rates, respectively, from first quarter 1993 through fourth quarter 1997; pless than 0.01 for both). For males aged 15-24 years, quarterly assaultive firearm-related injury rates also declined significantly from 1993 through 1997 (Figure 1) (overall predicted percentage declines were 37.5% and 16.0% for nonfatal and fatal injury rates, respectively, from first quarter 1993 through fourth quarter 1997; pless than 0.01 for both). For males aged 15-24 years, the cyclical seasonal pattern was consistent for both fatal and nonfatal assaultive firearm-related injury rates (Figure 1), with the highest rates occurring during July, August, and September. These summer rates were significantly higher than rates during the other three quarters for fatal injuries (pless than 0.01) but not for nonfatal injuries (p=0.17).
Reported by: Office of Statistics and Programming and Div of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC.
Editorial Note:
The overall percentage decline in nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates in the U.S. population from 1993 through 1997 is consistent with a 21% decrease in violent crime during the same time (4). Since 1950, unintentional fatal firearm-related injury rates have declined. NEISS data also suggest a decline since 1993 in the rate of nonfatal unintentional firearm-related injuries treated in hospital EDs. Most of these nonfatal injuries occurred among males aged 15-44 years, were self-inflicted, and were associated with hunting, target shooting, and routine gun handling (i.e., cleaning, loading, and unloading a gun) (5). Additional investigation should focus on factors that may have contributed to the decrease, such as gun safety courses and information campaigns, the proportion of the population that uses guns for recreational purposes, and legislation.
Numerous factors may have contributed to the decrease in both nonfatal and fatal assaultive firearm-related injury rates. Possible contributors include improvements in economic conditions; the aging of the population; the decline of the crack cocaine market; changes in legislation, sentencing guidelines, and law-enforcement practices; and improvements associated with violence prevention programs (6). However, the importance and relative contribution of each of these factors have not been determined, and the reasons are not known for the declines in firearm-related suicide and suicide attempt rates.
This analysis also indicates that using NEISS is an effective means for tracking national estimates of nonfatal firearm-related injuries. Quarterly nonfatal firearm-related injury rates based on NEISS data track closely with firearm-related death rates based on death-certificate data. For males aged 15-24 years, a known high-risk group for assaultive injury (2,3), both fatal and nonfatal quarterly assaultive firearm-related rates show cyclical seasonal trends over the 5-year study period, with the highest rates occurring during the summer months.
A limitation of NEISS is that it is not designed to provide data to examine trends at the state and local level. State and local data are needed for jurisdictions to design and evaluate firearm-related injury-prevention programs. CDC has collaborated with states and communities to design and implement successful firearm-related injury surveillance and data systems (7), which can serve as models for future efforts.
Although firearm-related injuries have declined substantially across all intent categories and population subgroups, recent school-related shootings, multiple shootings, and homicide-suicide incidents are reminders that firearm-related injuries remain a serious public health concern. Even with the significant declines in nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates, approximately 96,000 persons in the United States sustained gunshot wounds in 1997. However, results from the Youth Risk Behavior Survey also indicate a decline in violence-related behavior among high school students, including a 25% decline in carrying guns on school property and a 9% decline in engaging in a physical fight on school grounds during this 5-year period (8 ). Prevention efforts should continue to design, implement, and evaluate public health, criminal justice, and education programs to further reduce firearm-related injuries in the United States.
References
Hoyert DL, Kochanek KD, Murphy SL. Deaths: final data for 1997. Mon Vital Stat Rep 1999;47(9).
Cherry D, Annest JL, Mercy JA, Kresnow M, Pollock DA. Trends in nonfatal and fatal firearm-related injury rates in the United States, 1985-1995. Ann Emerg Med 1998;32:51-9.
Annest JL, Mercy JA, Gibson DR, Ryan GW. National estimates of nonfatal firearm-related injuries: beyond the tip of the iceberg. JAMA 1995;273:1749-54.
Rand M. Criminal victimization 1997: changes 1996-1997 with trends 1993-1997. Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, December 1998.
Sinauer N, Annest JL, Mercy JA. Unintentional, nonfatal firearm-related injuries: a preventable public health burden. JAMA 1996;275:1740-3.
Moore MH, Tonry M. Youth violence in America. In: Tonry M, Moore MH, eds. Crime and justice: a review of the research. Vol 24. Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1998:1-26.
Ikeda RM, Mercy JA, Teret SP, eds. Firearm-related injury surveillance. Am J Prev Med 1998;15(3S).
Brener ND, Simon TR, Krug EG, Lowry R. Recent trends in violence-related behaviors among high school students in the United States. JAMA 1999;282:440-6.
Table 1
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TABLE 1. National estimates and crude rates of nonfatal firearm-related injuries, overall and by selected populations -- United States, 1993-1997
Number*
Rate†
Characteristic
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
% Change from 1993 to 1997
(95% CI§)
* Estimated number of nonfatal injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency departments (EDs) based on data from CDC’s Firearm Injury Surveillance Study using National Electronic Injury Surveillance System; rates were calculated using postcensal population estimates from the Bureau of the Census. The unweighted sample sizes of weighted cases used to calculate annual national estimates and rates were 3491 for 1993; 2860 for 1994; 2639 for 1995; 2231 for 1996; and 2181 for 1997. The unweighted sample size of weighted cases used to calculate national estimates and rates within subgroups (excluding unknowns) ranged from 74 for transferred at ED discharge in 1994 to 3099 for males in 1993.
† Per 100,000 population.
§ Confidence interval; statistically significant at the 0.05 level if the confidence interval does not include zero.
¶ Estimate has a coefficient of variation >= 30% and, therefore, may be unstable.
** Rates, percentage change, CIs, and coefficients of variation were not computed.
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Figure 1
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Table 2
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TABLE 2. Numbers and crude rates of fatal firearm-related injuries, overall and by selected populations -- United States, 1993-1997
Number*
Rate†
Characteristic
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
% Change from 1993 to 1997
(95% CI§)
* Number of fatal injuries from CDC’s National Vital Statistics System; rates were calculated using postcensal population estimate from the Bureau of the Census.
† Per 100,000 population.
§ Confidence interval; statistically significant at the 0.05 level if the confidence interval does not include zero.
¶ Number of fatalities and death rates do not include data from Oklahoma because Hispanic origin was not recorded on state death certificates from 1993 through 1996.
** Rates, percentage change, and CIs were not computed.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children -- 26 Industrialized Countries
During 1950-1993, the overall annual death rate for U.S. children aged less than 15 years declined substantially (1), primarily reflecting decreases in deaths associated with unintentional injuries, pneumonia, influenza, cancer, and congenital anomalies. However, during the same period, childhood homicide rates tripled, and suicide rates quadrupled (2). In 1994, among children aged 1-4 years, homicide was the fourth leading cause of death; among children aged 5-14 years, homicide was the third leading cause of death, and suicide was the sixth (3). To compare patterns and the impact of violent deaths among children in the United States and other industrialized countries, CDC analyzed data on childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death in the United States and 25 other industrialized countries for the most recent year for which data were available in each country (4). This report presents the findings of this analysis, which indicate that the United States has the highest rates of childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among industrialized countries.
In the 1994 World Development Report (5), 208 nations were classified by gross national product; from that list, the United States and all 26 of the other countries in the high-income group and with populations of greater than or equal to 1 million were selected because of their economic comparability and the likelihood that those countries maintained vital records most accurately. In January and February 1996, the ministry of health or the national statistics institute in each of the 26 countries were asked to provide denominator data and counts by sex and by 5-year age groups for the most recent year data were available for the number of suicides (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision {ICD-9}, codes E950.0-E959), homicides (E960.0-E969), suicides by firearm (E955.0-E955.4), homicides by firearm (E965.0-E965.4), unintentional deaths caused by firearm (E922.0-E922.9), and firearm-related deaths for which intention was undetermined (E985.0-E985.4); 26 (96%) countries, including the United States, provided complete data *. Twenty (77%) countries provided data for 1993 or 1994; the remaining countries provided data for 1990, 1991, 1992, or 1995. Cause-specific rates per 100,000 population were calculated for three groups (children aged 0-4 years, 5-14 years, and 0-14 years). The rates for homicide and suicide by means other than firearms were calculated by subtracting the firearm-related homicide and firearm-related suicide rates from the overall homicide and suicide rates. Rates for the United States were compared with rates based on pooled data for the other 25 countries. Of the 161 million children aged less than 15 years during the 1 year for which data were provided, 57 million (35%) were in the United States and 104 million (65%) were in the other 25 countries.
Overall, the data provided by the 26 countries included a total of 2872 deaths among children aged less than 15 years for a period of 1 year. Homicides accounted for 1995 deaths, including 1177 (59%) in boys and 818 (41%) in girls. Of the homicides, 1464 (73%) occurred among U.S. children. The homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51) (Table_1).
Suicide accounted for the deaths of 599 children, including 431 (72%) in boys and 168 (28%) in girls. Of the suicides, 321 (54%) occurred among U.S. children. The suicide rate for children in the United States was two times higher than that in the other 25 countries combined (0.55 compared with 0.27) (Table_1). No suicides were reported among children aged less than 5 years.
A firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined (1.66 compared with 0.14) (Table_1). The firearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly 16 times higher than that in all of the other countries combined (0.94 compared with 0.06); the firearm-related suicide rate was nearly 11 times higher (0.32 compared with 0.03); and the unintentional firearm-related death rate was nine times higher (0.36 compared with 0.04). For all countries, males accounted for most of the firearm-related homicides (67%), firearm-related suicides (77%), and unintentional firearm-related deaths (89%). The nonfirearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly four times the rate in all of the other countries (1.63 compared with 0.45), and nonfirearm-related suicide rates were similar in the United States and in all of the other countries combined (0.23 compared with 0.24).
The rate for firearm-related deaths among children in the United States (1.66) was 2.7-fold greater than that in the country with the next highest rate (Finland, 0.62) (Figure_1). Except for rates for firearm-related suicide in Northern Ireland and firearm-related fatalities of unknown intent in Austria, Belgium, and Israel, rates for all types of firearm-related deaths were higher in the United States than in the other countries. However, among all other countries, the impact of firearm-related deaths varied substantially. For example, five countries, including three of the four countries in Asia, reported no firearm-related deaths among children. In comparison, firearms were the primary cause of homicide in Finland, Israel, Australia, Italy, Germany, and England and Wales. Five countries (Denmark, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, and Taiwan) reported only unintentional firearm-related deaths.
Reported by: Div of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC.
Editorial Note
Editorial Note: The findings in this report document a high rate of death among U.S. children associated with violence and unintentional firearm-related injuries, particularly in comparison with other industrialized countries. Even though rates in all other countries were lower than those in the United States, rates among other countries varied substantially and were particularly low in some countries. Although specific reasons for the differences in rates among countries are unknown, previous studies have reported on the associations between rates of violent childhood death and low funding for social programs (6), economic stress related to participation of women in the labor force (7,8), divorce, ethnic-linguistic heterogeneity, and social acceptability of violence (9).
The findings of the analysis in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, although the data were obtained from official sources and were based on ICD-9 codes, the sensitivity and specificity of the vital records and reporting systems may have varied by country. Second, because 21 (81%) countries each reported less than 10 firearm-related deaths among children aged 0-14 years, the firearm-related death rates for those countries, when not pooled, are unstable and may vary substantially for different years. Finally, only one half of the countries (including the United States) reported all four digits of the ICD-9 codes for firearm-related deaths; the fourth digit distinguishes whether deaths were caused by injuries from firearms or by other explosives. For countries in which this distinction could not be made, the firearm-related death rates may be overestimated slightly.
In May 1996, the 49th World Health Assembly adopted a resolution that declared violence a leading worldwide public health problem and urged all member states to assess the problem of violence and to communicate their findings to the World Health Organization (10). Cross-cultural comparisons may identify key factors (e.g., attitudinal, behavioral, educational, socioeconomic, or regulatory) not evident from intranational studies that could assist in the development of new country-specific strategies for preventing such deaths.
References
Singh GK, Yu SM. US childhood mortality, 1950 through 1993: trends and socioeconomic differentials. Am J Public Health 1996;86:505-12.
National Center for Health Statistics. Health, United States, 1994. Hyattsville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, CDC, 1995.
Singh GK, Kochanek KD, MacDorman MF. Advance report of final mortality statistics, 1994. Hyattsville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, CDC, National Center for Health Statistics, 1996. (Monthly vital statistics report; vol 45, no. 3, suppl).
Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q 1996;49(4)(in press).
World Bank. World development report. New York, New York: Oxford University Press, 1994:251-2.
Garnter R. Family structure, welfare spending, and child homicide in developed democracies. J Marriage Fam 1991;53:231-40.
Fiala R, LaFree G. Cross-national determinants of child homicide. Am Sociol Rev 1988;53:432-45.
Gartner R. The victims of homicide: a temporal and cross-national comparison. Am Sociol Rev 1990;55:92-106.
Briggs CM, Cutright P. Structural and cultural determinants of child homicide: a cross-national analysis. Violence Vict 1994;9:3-16.
World Health Assembly. Prevention of violence: public health priority. Geneva, Switzerland: World Health Organization, 1996. (Resolution no. WHA49.25).
* Complete data were provided by Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, England and Wales, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Norway, Scotland, Singapore, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, and the United States. In this analysis, Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, and Taiwan are considered as countries.
Table_1
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TABLE 1. Rates * of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death + among children aged <15 years -- United States and 25 other industrialized countries &
================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ===========
Firearm-related deaths
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Age group (yrs) Total homicide Total suicide Homicide Suicide Unintentional Intention undetermined Total
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-4
U.S. 4.10 0 0.43 0 0.15 0.01 0.59
Non-U.S. 0.95 0 0.05 0 0.01 0.01 0.07
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 4.3:1 8.6:1 15.0:1 1.0:1 8.4:1
5-14
U.S. 1.75 0.84 1.22 0.49 0.46 0.06 2.23
Non-U.S. 0.30 0.40 0.07 0.05 0.05 0.01 0.18
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 5.8:1 2.1:1 17.4:1 9.8:1 9.2:1 6.0:1 12.4:1
0-14
U.S. 2.57 0.55 0.94 0.32 0.36 0.04 1.66
Non-U.S. 0.51 0.27 0.06 0.03 0.04 0.01 0.14
Ratio U.S.:Non-U.S. 5.0:1 2.0:1 15.7:1 10.7:1 9.0:1 4.0:1 11.9:1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Per 100,000 children in each age group and for 1 year during 1990-1995.
+ Homicides (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, codes E960.0-E969), sui-cides (E950.0-E959), homicides by firearm (E965.0-E965.4),
suicides by firearm (E955.0- E955.4), unintentional deaths caused by firearm (E922.0-E922.9), and firearm-related deaths for which intention was undetermined
(E985.0-E985.4).
& All countries classified in the high-income group with populations 31 million ( 5 ) that provided complete data (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark,
England and Wales, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Norway, Scotland,
Singapore, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland, and Taiwan). In this analysis, Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, and Taiwan are considered as countries.
================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ===========
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Disclaimer All MMWR HTML versions of articles are electronic conversions from ASCII text into HTML. This conversion may have resulted in character translation or format errors in the HTML version. Users should not rely on this HTML document, but are referred to the electronic PDF version and/or the original MMWR paper copy for the official text, figures, and tables. An original paper copy of this issue can be obtained from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office (GPO), Washington, DC 20402-9371; telephone: (202) 512-1800. Contact GPO for current prices.
**Questions or messages regarding errors in formatting should be addressed to mmwrq@cdc.gov.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Originally posted by Vortex dude, you already won the longest post award...
Maybe somebody will actually read it?
Nothing like cold hard facts to clear out the BS
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
It takes a sick mind to want to kill someone. It does not matter what the weapon of choice is. It just makes it easier to blame an object for it, a gun in this case, then to deal with the fact that there are some sick freakin people out there. You can quote all the stats. you want, it still takes the sick mind behind the object to kill.
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and it's JUST-N-LX
Hey KS, instead of copy and paste all that information would it not be a whole lot easier to just give a link??? I mean thanks for the info but a link is so much nicer and clean cut.
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I starting reading and then got bored with all the facts that I don't care about. I felt like I was in school, doing research for an essay or something.
I say....let's empty out all the prisons of the PEOPLE who KILLED using a handgun and lay the handgun in the prison cell. Isn't that what all the anti-gun lobbiests are saying? The handgun commited the crime NOT the PERSON. When are we going to take responsibility for our OWN ACTIONS and stop pointing the finger where it doesn't belong.
Here's another question. Which kills more people. Cigarettes or handguns each year in the US. Lets see a comparision of "smoking/second hand smoke" related deaths to handguns.
And with the homicide rates being the age group of 15 - 24 maybe they need to be tougher on the street gangs that are obtaining these ILLEGAL GUNS to assist in their drug trafficing. There are more problems to be taken care of to cure the homicides in this country than just banning handguns. Open your eyes and take the blindfolds off. Quote all the statistics you want but still look at the underlying problem. It's not handguns. It's poor parenting.
How many of the "deaths by doctors" were people that had almost no chance to live? If they didn't go to the doctor, they wouldn't live anyway. So, can you really count those against doctors?
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True love is hard to find. Sometimes you think you have true love and then you catch the early flight home from San Diego and a couple of nude people jump out of your bathroom blindfolded like a magic show ready to double team your girlfriend...
Originally posted by TattooedChris DSL is awesome isn't it!
I would like to personally thank kc for validating my pro-gun / anti-gun-ban views with those cold hard facts. They perfectly illustrate why what I've been saying all along is correct.
Point 1: Gun banning is not the solution: according to those posts the countries with highest rates of firearm homicides included Australia, England, and Wales which have more firearm bans than anywhere else.
Point 2: We don't need more firearm regulation, we just need to better enforce what we have now. According to those statistics, the largest groups that had the most firearm injuries/homicides were for a group (Age 15 - 24) where almost half of the group are not legally allowed to own or posess firearms.
This is my last only and last post on this thread as the previous one had already beaten this horse to within an inch of its life.
A firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined (1.66 compared with 0.14) (Table_1). The firearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly 16 times higher than that in all of the other countries combined (0.94 compared with 0.06); the firearm-related suicide rate was nearly 11 times higher (0.32 compared with 0.03); and the unintentional firearm-related death rate was nine times higher (0.36 compared with 0.04). For all countries, males accounted for most of the firearm-related homicides (67%), firearm-related suicides (77%), and unintentional firearm-related deaths (89%). The nonfirearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly four times the rate in all of the other countries (1.63 compared with 0.45), and nonfirearm-related suicide rates were similar in the United States and in all of the other countries combined (0.23 compared with 0.24).
The rate for firearm-related deaths among children in the United States (1.66) was 2.7-fold greater than that in the country with the next highest rate (Finland, 0.62) (Figure_1). Except for rates for firearm-related suicide in Northern Ireland and firearm-related fatalities of unknown intent in Austria, Belgium, and Israel, rates for all types of firearm-related deaths were higher in the United States than in the other countries. However, among all other countries, the impact of firearm-related deaths varied substantially. For example, five countries, including three of the four countries in Asia, reported no firearm-related deaths among children. In comparison, firearms were the primary cause of homicide in Finland, Israel, Australia, Italy, Germany, and England and Wales. Five countries (Denmark, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, and Taiwan) reported only unintentional firearm-related deaths.
Dude?!?! What about this validates your point? Regardless of the age that a person can legally own a gun, it's guns per capita that drives this particular equation.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Originally posted by SombreroMan How many of the "deaths by doctors" were people that had almost no chance to live? If they didn't go to the doctor, they wouldn't live anyway. So, can you really count those against doctors?
Now you're understanding the nature of propaganda to advance a political agenda. Death by doctor occurs, usually in surgery when the person has little chance at life.
It's pretty sick to attack the people who heal others to advance a political agenda. But if you care to look, a lot of the statistics come from emergency rooms. So you attack the source of information rather than the information itself.
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Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Which is more likely to kill you; your GUN or your DOCTOR? 
