i just got a simple question, the tranny is out of my 88 LX. the car was sitting in the garage and i was just wondering what the car would sound like without the exhaust, but i was kinda worried about starting the car without the transmission in it. anyways so i just turn the key for a second (didn't start the car) and now my clutch pedal feels a lot softer than before, im just wondering did i mess up anything with that dumb move? its just the transmission and driveshaft that are out of the car, thanks for your responses im kinda worried that ill be paying for more than just a transmission.

[GTRaptor]

You can start it, no problem, just make sure nothing touches the flywheel

[Vortex]

especially fingers...

awesome! thanks for the replys. um one thing, the clutch is still on there, its the tranny and only the tranny thats removed, it doesn't matter if the clutch is still there right? also any clues as to why the clutch pedal went softer? thanks again

[Vortex]

if its bolted on securely like on the vehicle. if you're dyno'ing the engine, you'd want it off, you're not going to have the same amount of drag on the engine as if the whole driveline was still connected.

[Jarrett]

If you pushed the clutch in with the tranny out of the car, the clutch will have fallen out of place in relation to the flywheel and will need to be realigned. I know you didn't start it, but in order to turn it over the clutch would have been disengaged right.

[Groove]

what exactly do you mean you want to hear the engine woth out the exhaust. I would advise against running open shorty headers or running nothing at all. The engine will suck cold air back in the exhaust ports and warp your valves.

[fvpnt0pony92]

i second that

[mustangrider]

Excuse me, but if he has the tranny out of the car, pushing in the clutch pedal will do nothing in the way of engaging/disengaging the clutch to the engine as the pedal only links (hydraulic or mech) to the throw out bearing & pressure plate. The Clutch & pressure plate assy is bolted to the flywheel and as long as all the bolts are torgued down, you will not need to re-align it. His clutch pedal is probably softer now; 1) It's not engaging anything after the cylinder i.e. clutch lever, throw out bearing, pressure plate or 2) because it's hydraulic operated, he may have disconnected the lines going to the cylinder and therefore allowed air in to the system (think of your brakes & bleeding).

As for the orginal question. No, starting the engine without the tranny in will not hurt the motor but before I did, I'd be absolutely sure that the rear of the motor was supported as it's now being held in the car by only the motor mounts. The tranny was it's rear support bolted to the frame by the cross member.

I'm not trying to talk down to anyone, just clearing up any mis-conceptions and answering the questions.

[Jarrett]

The clutch disc is supported by the input shaft when the pressure plate is disengaged. Depressing the clutch pedal will remove the clamping force of the pressure plate and release the only force holding the disc in place. Unless the input shaft is there to hold it in place, which it ins't if the trans is out of the car the disc will fall and become jammed between the plate and the flywheel when the clutch fork is relelased.
When did a Fox Mustang ever have a hydraulic clutch?

[mustangrider]

I have to agree with you as to the clutch plate being sandwiched between the pressure plate and the flywheel up to a certain degree. If it's all bolted up, the pressure plate is holding the clutch plate firmly against the flywheel with spring pressure. Obviously, if the motor is running without the input shaft in place to hold the clutch plate centered, it may shift due to the rotational forces put upon it, centrifical?

And then main point I was making was this. The tranny is removed and depressing the pedal will do nothing because the lever holding the throwout bearing is not there to engage the pressure plate so his pedal softness is most likely because there is no resistance from the pressure plate felt from the throwout bearing lever.

But, I'd be more worried about the entire motor shifting, breaking a motor mount or warping a valve from open headers then a clutch plate mis-alignment.

I wasn't sure as to the type of clutch that the older Mustangs had so I wrote, Hydraulics or Mechanical which should cover both types. I'm not sure of the Fox's setup but you asked when Fox's came with Hyd so I'm guessing it has mechanical and I've changed many of clutches in my day and if memory serves me correctly, a mechanical clutch is cable operated and to remove the tranny, doesn't the cable have to be disconnected from the throwout bearing release lever? If so, the cable tension is released and the pedal should fall to the floor. On a hydraulic clutch, the pedal will remain in position unless the system was opened.
I may be incorrect on some things as each model car has it's own quirks, but I have yet to see something different when it comes to clutch assemblies regarding it's operation from the throwout bearing lever to the flywheel.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm

[Jarrett]

The clutch fork on a T-5 is integral to the bellhousing, and in order to depress the cltuch the bellhousing would have to be in place. The trans is removed from the bellhousing leaving all the workings of the clutch in place. If the pedal is depressed, it completely separates the disc from the press plate. Centrifugal force or not, the disc WILL fall away from the correct position without the input shaft.

[Groove]

yes what you are saying is true which will cause a serious imbalance. better to just be patient and put everything together. and what i said before about open shorties or no headers at all warping the valves is true to which i believe is the whole reason he wants to start the engine incomplete in the first place

"the car was sitting in the garage and i was just wondering what the car would sound like without the exhaust"

one thing a motorhead needs to have is patience

[mustangrider]

Yep, that's true as well if he removed the tranny and left the bellhousing in place. That wasn't clear in his original post though so I figured (noticed I didn't say assumed ) he took the whole thing, belhousing and all. If he left the bellhousing with the clutch assy installed then yes, I can see why his pedal would feel different since the clutch plate would fall.

If the entire tranny is removed (bellhousing too) then the clutch plate shouldn't fall away if the pressure plate is properly bolted on to the flywheel because spring pressure will keep the clutch plate against flywheel. That's why you'd need an alignment tool to align the clutch in place before completely torquing down the pressure plate bolts.

Anyway, this is a good discussion that we've started here (brain cells firing from their workout) and I hope that we've addressed Jamil's question.


C ya all

[mustangrider]

Oh, I stand corrected. He did mention in a later post that it was only the tranny and not the bellhousing.

Sorry about that.