To all Engine Experts. Need Engine Rebuilding Advise!
Ok guys. here's the deal. i have another car that I'm thinking about doing a rebuild on. it's 1990 Dodge Colt. i want to completely tear down the engine to it's block. Clean it and replace pistons and rods with new gaskets and bolts. I'm going to overbore .020 or .040. What SPECIAL tools do i need? Are there going to be any measurements that I'll have to make? is it just tear down and put everything back in? Should i follow torque specs or just a nice tight boltdown going to work?
I'm getting a Haynes Manual for reference.
I'm a DIY backyard mechanic with no techincal training. it's basically just a *practice* run before I start working on the mustang. Any helpful hints or suggestions?? I'm calling you out on this on Markwondi!!!
Thanks a million!
__________________
(>'')> Kirby-CHOP!
R.I.P.
1996 Laser Red V6
Vortech S-trim 9 psi
T-lok 3.73, Steeda Tri-ax shifter, Eibach springs, KYB shocks/struts, Steeda bumpsteer kit with X2 balljoints, Steeda clutch quadrant with adjuster, Steeda rear lower control arms (uppers coming soon) 2.5in dual exhaust with H-pipe, Borla mufflers, 3in tips.
My engine building tool collection consists of the following (and every one of them is extremely important):
0-6" digital micrometer set (Starret)
0-6" Vernier caliper (Starret)
2.25"-7.5" Snap On dial bore gauge (cylinder taper and bearing clearance)
Rod bolt stretch gauge
Dial indicator and magnetic swivel base (I have two, they come in handy in pairs)
Snap On digital torque wrench (0-250 ft/lbs, 0-180*)
Snap On digital torque wrench (10-100 in/lbs)
Piston ring filer
Piston squaring tool
Degree wheel and pointer
TDC stop (depends on OHV or OHC engine)
Big set of feeler gauges
Piston ring compressor set
Bronze/ Brass tip hammer
As for building the engine. You need to follow the precise torque specs for all bolts/nuts/etc. You will absolutely need to measure and set your bearing clearances. There is no such thing as building an engine without using the above tools. Every tool listed above is used in an engine build process, and if it's not, you did not properly build the engine. There will be a lot of money wrapped up in tools, and it'll be cheaper to have someone else build the engine for you (trust me), but if you plan to build more than 1 engine, than you can come out on top by purchasing the tools. You don't need to spend as much as I have on some of the above tools, but do make sure you have a good torque wrench (none of the chinease knock-off's). I'll recommend craftsman at the very LEAST.
It's something I want to learn and doing it is the only way I will...but getting a set of tools to use them once or twice seems like a waste of money. it's definitely something I have to think about now. A torque wrench itself can get pretty expensive. I'll have to do some more research.
Thanks mark!
Anyone else have any advice?
__________________
(>'')> Kirby-CHOP!
R.I.P.
1996 Laser Red V6
Vortech S-trim 9 psi
T-lok 3.73, Steeda Tri-ax shifter, Eibach springs, KYB shocks/struts, Steeda bumpsteer kit with X2 balljoints, Steeda clutch quadrant with adjuster, Steeda rear lower control arms (uppers coming soon) 2.5in dual exhaust with H-pipe, Borla mufflers, 3in tips.
There is no such thing as building an engine without using the above tools.
I've built very successful race/street motors using nothing but basic tools with few exceptions.
Yes, to completely build a motor from new parts that list of tools would be mandatory....but we are talking about a motor that has already been together and ran the good life.
Just get the head rebuilt at a machine shop.
I'm wondering why new rods?
Have the shop boil out the block after it's honed to the proper bore. Use soap and water at home to finish the cleaning and there is no such thing as too clean.
Check the bearing clearance with plastigage and make sure the ring gap is proper....all detailed in the manual.
Make sure and check some forums dealing with this motor as it might have a weakness or two not covered in a manual. You might need a new/rebuilt oil pump for instance.
Other than these things, follow the sequence of assembly in the manual and it'll go at least another 100,000 miles!
...Oh...and Harbor Freight has good-enough torque wrenches for $20 on sale. Yes, not the best, but it will do for this motor.
I've a 'Wright' torque wrench in my box that was $50 32 years ago...pretty penny then...and it is about 2FT lbs off after thousands of uses and no special care.
What if I were to just disassemble and clean it? I would probably get new injectors too. It's running great now but it's got a funny idle, like it'll idle high then low then high then low. And it leaks oil. If I were to just clean the block and all the parts, would I need to bore and hone and get clearings and all that jazz? Or would that be a unbolt and bolt type thing? Could I clean it without diassembling the rotating assembly and just clean that with soap and water or a good degreaser?
You guys rock BTW and thanks again for all the help!
__________________
(>'')> Kirby-CHOP!
R.I.P.
1996 Laser Red V6
Vortech S-trim 9 psi
T-lok 3.73, Steeda Tri-ax shifter, Eibach springs, KYB shocks/struts, Steeda bumpsteer kit with X2 balljoints, Steeda clutch quadrant with adjuster, Steeda rear lower control arms (uppers coming soon) 2.5in dual exhaust with H-pipe, Borla mufflers, 3in tips.
If you dont wanna replace the rotating assembly the easiest way is just to re ring and bearing her. Just make sure the crank spins freely when the mains are torqued, and the make sure that there is some thrust and you should be good to go if all the old internals go back in her.
If you dont wanna replace the rotating assembly the easiest way is just to re ring and bearing her. Just make sure the crank spins freely when the mains are torqued, and the make sure that there is some thrust and you should be good to go if all the old internals go back in her.
If he's using this build as practice for the real build (mustang), then I'd suggest he checks and sets ALL clearances. Just putting stuff together surely won't be sucessful on high performance builds.
This will serve two purposes for me. For one, this car (colt) is my daily driver, getting to classes and to work and what-not. Rebuilding this motor will allow me to *keep* it as a daily driver for longer so investing a few hundred bucks on new parts isn't a problem.
this will also serve as a template for a real build for my weekend driver (mustang) as I want to get a forged rotating assembly eventually to be able to put down more boost and make more power. But even so, just getting it down to a bare block, cleaning it and replacing it with OEM spec'd parts is fine with me. It's the idea of actually seeing what's going on inside and knowing what to expect that's the main goal here. There's only so much reading of procedures until it gets boring. Doing it is the only way to learn, I feel. I don't want to crack into the mustang's engine and be like "uhhhh...now what?"
__________________
(>'')> Kirby-CHOP!
R.I.P.
1996 Laser Red V6
Vortech S-trim 9 psi
T-lok 3.73, Steeda Tri-ax shifter, Eibach springs, KYB shocks/struts, Steeda bumpsteer kit with X2 balljoints, Steeda clutch quadrant with adjuster, Steeda rear lower control arms (uppers coming soon) 2.5in dual exhaust with H-pipe, Borla mufflers, 3in tips.
This will serve two purposes for me. For one, this car (colt) is my daily driver, getting to classes and to work and what-not. Rebuilding this motor will allow me to *keep* it as a daily driver for longer so investing a few hundred bucks on new parts isn't a problem.
this will also serve as a template for a real build for my weekend driver (mustang) as I want to get a forged rotating assembly eventually to be able to put down more boost and make more power. But even so, just getting it down to a bare block, cleaning it and replacing it with OEM spec'd parts is fine with me. It's the idea of actually seeing what's going on inside and knowing what to expect that's the main goal here. There's only so much reading of procedures until it gets boring. Doing it is the only way to learn, I feel. I don't want to crack into the mustang's engine and be like "uhhhh...now what?"
Here's my take on it (take it how you will). I didn't learn how to build engines, transmissions, etc from doing things half a$$. This is what I feel seperates me from thousands of other people in this world that do the same thing. Sure, building an engine is not hard, and only requires time. For those people looking to go "above and beyond" will have to engineer and really BUILD the engines.
How many people can say that they have built/designed/etc a 350rwhp+ N/A 2V 4.6L? To my recollection, there are only 4 people EVER to do it, and I am one of them. And to be honest, I didn't just slap parts together and call it a day. It took A LOT of work that was not taught to me on the internet or in a book.
I feel that for someone beginning to learn about engines and how to build them, that it's in their best interest to learn the "proper" way of doing things. They need to be able to understand what clearances to check, what they should be, and how to change them for certain applications. Not all engines are created equal, and that is what seperates the best from the rest of the world.
If you learn the proper way (ie. check bearing clearances with a dial indicator, etc) and have mastered this technique, then and only then do you have the ability to do it in other "less fashionable" ways. Sure, plastigauge is used to build many engines, and I too have used it in the past. However, it's not an exact science, and I surely would NEVER use it in a $30,000 engine.
Any mechanic or technician (and possibly an engineer) can build an engine. As I stated, it's not rocket science. But if you know all the specifics and understand them, then you have the ability to cut corners on certain low-key engines. To begin your learning adventures this way is just not practical, and it's the cause of many hot-headed kids that think they know everything.
With that said, it pays off in the end to learn everything you possibly can, and to use it in every build you do. I'd challenge any mechanic, fellow AFM poster, etc to build their skills against mine, because in the end, my engine will always make more power.
Here's my take on it (take it how you will). I didn't learn how to build engines, transmissions, etc from doing things half a$$. This is what I feel seperates me from thousands of other people in this world that do the same thing. Sure, building an engine is not hard, and only requires time. For those people looking to go "above and beyond" will have to engineer and really BUILD the engines.
How many people can say that they have built/designed/etc a 350rwhp+ N/A 2V 4.6L? To my recollection, there are only 4 people EVER to do it, and I am one of them. And to be honest, I didn't just slap parts together and call it a day. It took A LOT of work that was not taught to me on the internet or in a book.
I feel that for someone beginning to learn about engines and how to build them, that it's in their best interest to learn the "proper" way of doing things. They need to be able to understand what clearances to check, what they should be, and how to change them for certain applications. Not all engines are created equal, and that is what seperates the best from the rest of the world.
If you learn the proper way (ie. check bearing clearances with a dial indicator, etc) and have mastered this technique, then and only then do you have the ability to do it in other "less fashionable" ways. Sure, plastigauge is used to build many engines, and I too have used it in the past. However, it's not an exact science, and I surely would NEVER use it in a $30,000 engine.
Any mechanic or technician (and possibly an engineer) can build an engine. As I stated, it's not rocket science. But if you know all the specifics and understand them, then you have the ability to cut corners on certain low-key engines. To begin your learning adventures this way is just not practical, and it's the cause of many hot-headed kids that think they know everything.
With that said, it pays off in the end to learn everything you possibly can, and to use it in every build you do. I'd challenge any mechanic, fellow AFM poster, etc to build their skills against mine, because in the end, my engine will always make more power.
Hey markwondi. that's very respectable and if I'm going to do something I want to do it right. This is exactly the reason why i'm asking here is because there are many talented mechanics out there and learning from a knowledgeable person is the only way to do it. If I do this, I want to be able to do everything right. Not cut any corners and if it means taking the most minute measurement to 6 decimal places then I will take the time to do it. I appreciate your input and believe you me I will be asking tons of questions when i embark on this little adventure.
and that challenge of yours...it'll take me a few years but i'll beat you.
__________________
(>'')> Kirby-CHOP!
R.I.P.
1996 Laser Red V6
Vortech S-trim 9 psi
T-lok 3.73, Steeda Tri-ax shifter, Eibach springs, KYB shocks/struts, Steeda bumpsteer kit with X2 balljoints, Steeda clutch quadrant with adjuster, Steeda rear lower control arms (uppers coming soon) 2.5in dual exhaust with H-pipe, Borla mufflers, 3in tips.
Here is a quote that I found.
"Nothing is so small or simple that it should be overlooked or taken for granted. The details are everything--They distinguish a professional approach to doing a job versus the backyard "hack" repair that always seems to have to be done over and over again because of impatience and/or poor planning. Do it right and do it once." -- Mark Ryan, Haynes Manuals
I think that about says it all. I'm a perfectionist who was taught by a perfectionist, my father. Nothing ticks me off more than someone who comes to me with their problems after they've pulled off a half-assed repair job. The first thing I ask them is, "Do you have a service manual?" You can probably guess what the answer is. It never ceases to amaze me how people will spend tons of money on parts, but never can seem to justify the cost of a good repair manual.
One more thing, buying a cheap torque wrench is the same as not using one at all. ---Chuck
I have rebuilt one other engine in my life, I was 17. I took over 3months to build it. It was a 2.3L and I put it in a '71 Pinto. I spent 2500 bucks on that Engine and hours reading crap. I had the machine shop do all the "clearancing" of things...armed with the right things to ask for...and it was a screamer. I broke the rear end in the thing on month after building the engine...and the Junk Yard guy ....typically 60yr old 400lb dude...almost fell over laughing in his barstool like chair when I asked him if he had any...he said finally "Kid, I got so many of em their in the way...and ur funny so there over there marked with paint" blah blah blah..."just take one!!"
ANyways, if you want a good guide for your 5.0 build, read this...im liking it so far.
To all Engine Experts. Need Engine Rebuilding Advise! 
Yes, not the best, but it will do for this motor.
