[sherly289]

hi, first post here...

im just trying to figure out if its posable to put a twin turbo and a SC on my 289 V8 with agresive cam and edelbrock 4 barrel and weiand intake?

i just wanted to know some pricing, manufacturers and what kind of power i would be seeing and what modifications i wold be looking at to acomodate both..?

[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by sherly289

hi, first post here...

im just trying to figure out if its posable to put a twin turbo and a SC on my 289 V8 with agresive cam and edelbrock 4 barrel and weiand intake?

i just wanted to know some pricing, manufacturers and what kind of power i would be seeing and what modifications i wold be looking at to acomodate both..?

HP will make up a turbo kit for you, but it won't be cheap (about $6k probably). Adding on a centrifugal supercharger would seem like a waste of time to me, since they are essentially belt-driven turbochargers.

I have seen a car (cheby nova) that had twin turbos and a positive displacement supercharger. It was a tuning nightmare, and radiated heat while running like a diesel bus.

I'm thinking this COULD be done, but would be less efficient at the top end than simply going with the turbos sized to maximize your power.

Once the engine maxes out the flow it can flow, extra boost just generates heat and makes for detonation. A 289 does NOT flow huge numbers, so I suspect it would have all it could handle if you put two properly sized (and talk to the turbo makers in order to define "properly sized") turbos on there.

If the idea is to come up with a unique show car (this is what the Cheby I mentioned ended up as), go with a positive displacement blower and you'll have everyone's attention on the show circuit.

[sherly289]

so if i were to just opt for the twin turbo's then what engine upgrades would i be running? somthing like new rings, crank bearings and synthetic ever 5k? and twins would run 6k. if im hunting for more power should i swap out carb for efi? is there much of a performance gain? and as for the turbo's, can i run my hooker headers with it or will there be a different exhaust set up needed to support it?

[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by sherly289

so if i were to just opt for the twin turbo's then what engine upgrades would i be running? somthing like new rings, crank bearings and synthetic ever 5k? and twins would run 6k. if im hunting for more power should i swap out carb for efi? is there much of a performance gain? and as for the turbo's, can i run my hooker headers with it or will there be a different exhaust set up needed to support it?

Time for you to start talking to the techs at HP (or Helion or whatever turbo company you decide to do business with). I think turbocharging works better with EFI (tuning is the key to surviving lots of boost, and EFI allows for precise air/fuel and spark control). I know they make these kits for the 5.0 EFI motors...

It all depends on how much boost you want to create and where you want the sweet spot of the power curve to start and stop. Turbos are high rpm lovers - hence the problem with low end lag. The smaller the turbo, the quicker it will spool up - and the less ultimate power it will create. The more boost that is desired, the larger the turbo, and the more lag occurs at lower rpm levels. Turbo drivers often like strong gears (this helps get them off the line and puts the turbos into their power range much quicker).

This is the tradeoff between centrifugal supercharger / turbochargers and positive displacement blowers in general. The Twin Screws will generate mountains of low end torque, but won't match the ultimate top end horsepower of the others. No lag for the twin screws, but they will run out of breath before the other guys too.

Issues with turbochargers burning up exhaust valves means that many modern turbo motors have special alloy valves (oddly enough, the 2005+ GTs all have these exhaust valves from the factory, indicating to me that turbocharging was always considered part of their future).

I know the turbo guys will want to spec the type of engine build - keeping the thing alive long term is the trick.

[sherly289]

alright so i checked hellion, and HP but the years that the turbo's support are like 93 and up. nothing seems to point to a 67 289.. so is there anything that specifically works with a ford 289 with a weiand intake, hooker headers an edlebrock 600cfm carb and 2.5 inch flowmasters and posably EFI

[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by sherly289

alright so i checked hellion, and HP but the years that the turbo's support are like 93 and up. nothing seems to point to a 67 289.. so is there anything that specifically works with a ford 289 with a weiand intake, hooker headers an edlebrock 600cfm carb and 2.5 inch flowmasters and posably EFI

There may be off-the-shelf kits for the 289/turbo project, but I doubt it. That's why you need to contact them direct (rather than look over their kit listings on the internet).

Almost ANY motor can be turbocharged, but in this case you would be working with generic (also called "universal") parts like pre-bent tubing in various combinations plus straight pieces, then the turbos, BOVs, flexible joints, etc, etc, etc. It takes someone who is good at welding stainless steel tubing, too. I hinted at this problem when I mentioned the 5.0 kits you doubtless saw - these are probably the easiest way to go, overall, though of course you'd be dealing with an updated EFI 302 instead of your old 289).

If all this sounds like too much, consider just the normal centrifugal blower kit. I think there are a number of them that can be adapted to the 289, though again it is NOT a common kit item. 302's are much more common, and they build more for them, while putting a blower on an EFI car is a LOT easier in so far as tuning and fuel system supplies, etc. Lots fewer blown up motors and irate customers, y'know.

[sherly289]

what if i handled the whole range? a dual charger with twin screw... that way the twin screw gets the low end and the turbo's pick up the top end? is that do able?

[tripleblack]

Yes, its doable, particularly with an EFI 5.0 where you have a lot of options.

As I said earlier, it would be a very intersting show car.

Probably a HORRIBLE daily driver, and a mediocre racer (at best).

You end up with a tremendously complex combination, and equipment crammed everywhere. Building the car will require high level skills and high level money. The motor would need to be close to an all-out strip block (etc) even to operate as a driveable show car - and would definitely need the full-bore racer list if its actually meant to perform at the track.

Keeping it teetering on the head of a pin will be a constant worry, since the tune will be something that requires hundreds of hours of expert effort and probably tons of dyno time.

But it WOULD be unique, and it HAS been done before (though not in a Mustang I have personally seen - its not unknown in the high end show car Chevy circuit, though).

If you must go this route, pick the largest positive displacement twin screw you can find (talke the Kenne Bell). Team it with a pair of properly sized turbos (I can't imagine that you will be able to use really large turbos, even for the high end, because the supercharger will act as a massive obstruction once you exceed its flow capacity).

The turbos need to be setup to lie dormant (BOV setting would be critical) until the blower's power curve starts to level out at about 5000-5500 RPM, when the superior efficiency of the Turbos would cut in. How to handle the turbulance caused by the two sources of boost at this point would be a real headache - I suspect you would see a pretty big dead/flat spot until the turbos overwhelmed the blower. Custom port work througout (particularly the blower case, though you'd have to be careful not to weaken it too much) would be essential to leave any headroom for the higher boost levels created by the turbos high end...

The more I think about it, the less attractive it looks to me.

More of a stunt than an actually valuable method.

I'd give you about even odds of blowing up someting critical the first time you sent it down the track.

If someone built a bypass system that would seamlessly sense when the boost from the blower started to falter and switched it out (to a major BOV outlet I guess) and switched IN a huge butterfly valve that routed the turbo boost in there at just the correct rpms...

But I've not seen this except on some big rig diesels. Ford IS looking to put a dual turbo rig on their pickup diesels - you might look into how they stage them.

Originally Posted by sherly289

what if i handled the whole range? a dual charger with twin screw... that way the twin screw gets the low end and the turbo's pick up the top end? is that do able?

[sherly289]

WELL it SOUNDED like a logical idea in theory... looking back on the option.... perhaps not. im just looking for some major power-near retarted... maybe 600HP. im putting out an est 400 thought i think its more closer to 340. if i went for dual mid sized twins with efi i could get my majic 600? im already running my agressive cam headers weiand intake and dual masters?

[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by sherly289

WELL it SOUNDED like a logical idea in theory... looking back on the option.... perhaps not. im just looking for some major power-near retarted... maybe 600HP. im putting out an est 400 thought i think its more closer to 340. if i went for dual mid sized twins with efi i could get my majic 600? im already running my agressive cam headers weiand intake and dual masters?

A boosted engine would need some re-thinking from what you already have. 600hp is well within the envelope for twin turbos, but the build is complex and all the ss tube welding is really hard to do.

Rebuilding the motor for the turbos would require some attention to the heads and porting. Lower compression to keep the boost from detonating would be needed as well.

Contact HP or Hellion and talk to one of their techs. They have forgotten more about turbos than I know!

[sherly289]

so iv been poking around and figured a sequential setup. this would replace the idea of turbo for top end and twin screw for bottom. cause the sequential woould have a small for the low and a big for the high. the only problem i see with that is once you hit the higher end the small turbo will top out and then you would have a sort of limit on the big one? just my concern. and as for my exhaust, i have dual 2.5 inch flomasters with hooker headers. one thing i keep seeing is exhaust - torbo compatability? how do i tell. being as i dont know specific information on the parts. just because the car came with those parts already installed.

[sherly289]

and as for the welding, iv been welding for a couple years now. i found a holley EFI system for 4 grand. and then i read that if you get the 351W heads then you need to change your crank? or cam?, but would you still need to swap them if you change somthing to do with your injectors and firing order with the programmable part of the efi? if i got the 351W heads then i would be getting the 9;1 im looking for right?

[sherly289]

would these work as opposed to the 351W heads?


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[sherly289]

anyone? anyone have any ideas or know?