[GT Dan]

This chopping and posting is almost as fun as chopping and channeling an old model A. Anyone do that? So here goes....fair is fair right?

<---wearing jokey safety glasses to keep the @#$% out of my eyes as I ride through this thread.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"That was in the past. Turbo designs are more advanced today. Oil no longer has to cool the bearing. Bearings can be water-cooled. Oil is mostly for “feeding”, lubing, the bearings.... and to some extent cools."

So does oil cool the bearings or not? IMO, oil does provide some cooling for the bearings in most turbos.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"Bearings are no longer the bushing type; they can be roller or needle."

I never claimed that all turbo bearings were one type or the other.:11doh:

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"... newer turbo designs with water-cooling and roller bearings address this issue. You can shut down a water-cooled turbo right away. It is still a good idea to let it cool a little after being hard on an engine, but that goes for any engine..."

I disagree. The heat driven turbos get hit with the first blast of heat coming straight from the head. No other bearings in the engine are exposed to these kinds of tempuratures.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"Well if you run or race any car hard for that matter you shouldn’t shut down right away"

The ford dealer that sold my brother a brand new 86 SVO and SV technicians, told him to allow the vehicle to idle for approximately five minutes after running it hard....it (SVO) was different from a normally aspirated motor. Perhaps the SVO is older technology and new turbo technology has surpassed it? I know of some 90's RX7's that have gone through turbo after turbo. Not until they install a kit that makes the motor run for as many as 10 minutes after its turned off, do the turbos cool properly.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"You miss the point here. The issue of reliability is the point. Trucks have to be reliable. These people make their living with them. And they go thousands of miles without a failure on the turbo."

I completely understood the point....just didn't agree that you were comparing apples with apples or oranges with oranges. Diesel fuel is extremely different from gasoline. The trucks have entirely different stroke and bore features. Their compression ratios are different, their method of igniting fuel is different, their red-lines are different, temps are different, often the rpms remain constant for long periods of time--basicly the turbos for diesels function in similar manner as those for gasoline, but under completely and SIGNIFICANTLY different environments.

The Lemans and Indy cars are very different too. Variable timing, extremely shorter stroked motors that rev very high, chips that monitor practically every concievable variable in the car. Pito tubes (sp?) and wind test tunnels that are better than NASA. I completely understand that these two examples are used to illustrate durability. Under their variables, yes, turbos are reliable, but we don't drive under those variables. Street driving is stop and go....on and off....and bumper to bumper in commute traffic. Perhaps a thread for turbos vs. (specific) chargers for race application only is in order?

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"This is just my opinion here. Manufactures follow what sells on the aftermarket."

As a CPA that has worked for one of the big five (or is it Big four now?--AA joke), I have observed that big companies manufacture, sell or resell only products that MAKE A PROFIT. Remember the recalls??? I think AJ's experience in installing over 100 charger/turbos/etc. goes a long, long way. The cost of recalls on turbos is way to risky.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX


"I actually see more turbo charged cars today then back in the 80’s (Volvo, Saab, Porsche, Subaru, Toyota, etc.)"

I actually see fewer.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX

"Man could I have their sponsors!!"

Getting sponsors like that normally only comes when you land in the winner's circle. The welding consultant I mentioned runs a blown alcohol hemi in the 7 second range and he doesn't have those kinds of sponsors. Besides, sponsorship is tricky business these days....many sponsors have been sued when spectators have been injured in crashes. Sponsorship and advertising can get one around the IRS's hobby-loss rules, but it can also put one's neck in the liability noose.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX

"I’m not trying to upset anyone"

Neither am I.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX

"...and my apologies if I do or did. I still like them both."

Same here.

Originally posted by JUSTNLX

" I’m just trying to put to rest the old thinking behind turbos"

I'm surely glad that I don't have that "old thinking." I'm just providing another perspective.

Here's the kicker. If I do ever break down and buy a turbo for my Pony, I'll proudly proclaim it never would have happened without the influence of JUSTNLX. If I do get one, it won't be for reliability or gas mileage or for everyday use....it will be a toy separate from my other vehicles.

I rest my case.....

[Brew]

Dan, it's spelled Pitot Tube, come on get it right!!!

I think it was developed by some French dude.

[GT Dan]

sorry....i'm not an english major

i'm a numbers guy

i know my buddy has them on his plane and i've seen them on the formula one cars

the french and the germans have indeed designed some pretty nifty gadgets

[Brew]

I use them for measuring air flow for HVAC work and I'm definitely not an English major but my old HVAC instructor made sure we knew how to spell the terms and instruments we used.

[MarkHalliday]

Brew, I missed something here. Aren't Pitot tubes the long spikes at the nose of some jets? I thought they were used for radar. WOW, so Formula One cars are now using radar??? What will they think of next? hehe

Talon_Sr

[GT Dan]

Brew is right, the pitot tubes do measure air flow on the noses of the jets and the HVAC systems he works on. They are one of the many factors that are continuously monitored on the F1 cars. The F1's speed plus wind speed along with throttle and brake pedal monitored pressures and other factors, will determine downward pressure (and traction or slippage) as influenced by the programming for the adjustable wings on the cars.

[MarkHalliday]

So the wings adjust dynamically to the feedback from the air tubes while the car is running? Similar to how the ECC reprograms A/F ratio based on the Mass Air sensor? Tech is awesome!!

Talon_sr

[blkgtstang]

While it does not offer alot of top end power they are VERY easy to installl(3 hours), last forever with just an oil change, AND full boost at 2000 rpm's. My friend has one on his 91 GT and has over 30,000 miles of trouble use. I just put 6037's,1.7 RR's, Holley Systemax I lower,42 lb injectors,70mm TB, L 90mm MAF,Kenne Bell chip,full exhaust,with all stock bottom end including the cam. FULL weight GT with all options except A/C with only 3.55 gears. I has SSM lift bars with SSM uppers as the ONLY suspension mods. I ran a 11.75@119 the other night with a 1.55 60ft time on just 26" tall slicks with a 3500 rpm launch! This is with 12psi on a Kenne Bell 1500. Not too shabby for a stock cammed KB car!

[TwinTurbo95GT]

Originally posted by A.J.
Ok first off turbo's will always produce more hp than a sc at the same boost level, But a supercharger has far less maintenance, and is more reliable.

BS! I guess that's why a zillion tractor trailers use them and rack up hundreds of thousands of rebuilds before the turbos have to be overhauled. If s/c was superior, that's what they'd run.

As for no cars coming with a centrifugal supercharger stock that is a load of crap. What about the shelby series 1, saleen s351, steeda Q, or the many other cars.

Same thing for race cars, LeMans cars run 24 hour endurance races that are the equivalent of 1,000,000 miles of street driving abuse...according to Porsche anyway...but I'm sure they haven't made near as many cars as saleen or steeda, they must be n00bs.

[TwinTurbo95GT]

Originally posted by Ron
You want a ton of HP for racing go for the turbo, you want HP and a streetable car go for the blower..........

I think you have that backwards. Turbo builds the power where you need it, low rpms for the street. Think of it this way, how often is your car at 6000rpms on a daily basis? Now, what about 3000rpms?

[JUSTNLX]

Originally posted by RodsbyRad
Turbo builds the power where you need it, low rpms for the street.

Turbos can build boost in the upper rpm range too. It depends on the size of the Turbine housing and the design of the turbine. (exhaust side)

You want boost down low, use a smaller turbine housing. Boost up high, use a larger turbine housing. That sounds pretty basic, and it is, but you still need to calculate the turbine size for your intended use.

I just noticed you have Incon! Is'nt it COOOL

[TwinTurbo95GT]

I have sent the money for it, but won't receive it until end of next week.


But yes, they are the coolest!

That's why I bought it! I could have bought a new single kit for what I paid for it, but I still think it was worth every penny.

[7-UP]

Rad Craig:

How long did you have to wait for your Incon turbos?

[TwinTurbo95GT]

I bought a used kit...so no wait! Other than the guy I bought them from went on vacation the next day..he'll be back tomorrow!

This way I avoided the long wait and any incomplete stuff. I get everything in the kit, PLUS a bunch of extra stuff.

[JUSTNLX]

Craig,

Last time I talked with Tom @ Incon he had a few Fox body kits in stock. That was about a month ago