If that's the case, then how come professional dragsters don't use it?
They do.....Pro 5.0,renegade,And some of the rail car classes
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John Carrell
Be verwy verwy qwyite
It's import hunting season
1995 GTS..W/ a few basic bolt ons "It's a turd
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The use of nitrous oxide (N20) as a performance enhancement has been traced back to World War II, where it was employed to give Allied aircraft "emergency" boosts in both airspeed and altitude capabilities. However, with the advent of jet propulsion at the end of WWII, the governments interest in piston-powered aircraft waned. And for the most part, nitrous R&D was shelved.
There were sporadic attempts at using nitrous oxide in race cars over the next few decades, but since for the most part it was a clandestine, closely-guarded secret, not too many people were aware of its existence.
Finally in the 1970s, nitrous "came out of the closet" and was the hot topic of conversation. Especially since a number of entrepreneurs brought systems to market that were highly erratic, at best.
It was at this point in time when a couple of successful automotive technicians and racers, Mike Thermos and Dale Vaznaian, saw there was a potential for nitrous - done right.
In 1978 Mike and Dale formed Nitrous Oxide Systems, Inc., and the rest is history. They didn't invent nitrous oxide - they simply perfected its use and elevated it to a position of prominence.
Admittedly, the company's early years were largely spent demonstrating that nitrous oxide was an efficient, safe and reliable form of performance enhancement.
NOS has always been known for thoroughly engineering each application, using only the best quality materials, and producing kits that were easy to install and built for long service. And with enthusiast publications like Hot Rod, Car Craft and Popular Hot Rodding among many, informing their readerships with in-depth tech features on NOS systems for various applications, the word began to spread.
Perhaps the greatest boost to the popularity of nitrous oxide was the advent of drag racing's Pro Mod class. Early pioneers like Charles Carpenter, Bill Kuhlmann and Robby Vandergriff captured the imagination of race fans with their impressive performances with stock-bodied cars. And NOS was there for every performance milestone - the first 200 mph run by a "doorslammer", the first 6-second run, etc. In fact, every single key performance milestone with nitrous has been set by racers using NOS systems.
Alittle more
Nitrous oxide is an oxygen bearing compound. Its chemical designator is N2O, so we know each nitrous oxygen molecule has two nitrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. Nitrous oxide is sometimes incorrectly known as "NOS". That is an acronym for the company, Nitrous Oxide Systems, which is the largest marketer of nitrous oxide injections system for automotive use.
Injection of nitrous oxide into the combustion chambers of an internal combustion engine as a way to increase power output was discovered by the German air craft industry early in the Second World War. Thousands of German figher and reconassance aircraft were equipped with the so-called "GM-1" system which added nitrous oxide to the intake charge to compensate for reduced air density and less oxygen high altitude. The British Royal Air Force also used aircraft engines with performance enhanced by nitrous oxide. Interestingly, there was no use of nitrous oxide injection by the American military air forces other than very limited experimental use. It is interesting to ask oneself that, if nitrous oxide injection was so dangerous to an engine's reliability, why would so many airplanes have used it?
In this country during 1950s the famed stock car racer Smokey Yunick rediscoverd nitrous oxide injection as one of his many schemes for winning races until discovered and outlawed by NASCAR. Neverthesless, there have been several nitrous oxide cheating scandals in NASCAR over the years and it is probably still used today by the slowest of backmarkers. In the late-70s/early-80s nitrous oxide was "rediscovered" by drag racers and hot rodders.
Today nitrous oxide injection, like many other modifications such as more aggressive camshafts, bigger carburetors, higher compression ratios, more free flowing intake and exhaust systems, can be a pracitical way to more horsepower. And..like any other modification...perhaps even more so because it so easily lends itself to misuse...there can be a reliabity and durability price to pay.
Nitrous oxide is a colorless, non-flammable gas. It has a slightly sweet taste and odor. It is non-toxic and non-irritating and when inhaled in small quantitites can produce mild hysteria and giggling or laughter. This is were the nickname "laughing gas" comes form. When inhaled in pure form it will cause death by asphyxiation because at atmospheric temperatures and pressure, the oxygen in nitrous oxide is not available to the body.
A property of nitrous oxide is that at about 565 degrees F., it breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen. When it is introduced into the intake tract of an internal combustion engine, it is sucked into the combustion chamber and, on the compression stroke, when the charge air temperature reachs 565 deg., a very oxygen-rich mixture results. If we add extra fuel during nitrous oxide injection, the effect is like a super charger or increasing the compression ratio of the engine. Automotive nitrous systems work like the automotive eqivalent of a jet's "afterburner" and is used for short duration extra bursts of power.
Nitrous oxide has this effect because it has a higher percentage of oxygen content than does the air in the atmosphere. Nitrous has 36% oxygen by weight and the atmosphere has 23%. Additionally, nitrous oxide is 50% more dense than air at the same pressure. Thus, a cubic foot of nitrous oxide contains 2.3 times as much oxygen as a cubic foot of air. Just do a bit of math in your head and you can see if we substitute some nitrous oxide for some of the air going into an engine than add the appropriate amount of additional fuel, the engine is going to put out more power.
Simply stated, nitrous oxide injection is very much like a supercharger or a compression ratio increase in that, during combustion, it can dramatically increase the dynamic cylinder pressure in the engine.
Of course, when we significantly increase the cylinder pressure in the engine, we also increase the engine's tendancy to detonate. This is why almost all nitrous motors require retarded spark timing during nitrous oxide operation. The cylinder pressure increase is also why, when misused or improperly installed, operation with nitrous causes problems with head gasket seal and failures of the rings or pistons. I should point out that any number of things that put an engine into severe detonation, such as too much boost from a supercharger, low octane fuel, excessive compression ratio or overly lean air-fuel ratio will also cause the same kinds of damage.
Another challenge with a nitrous oxide system is getting the delivery of nitrous oxide and additinonal fuel at the correct proportions. If you feed nitrous to the engine without enough extra fuel, the lean air/nitrous to fuel mixture will make the detonation problem even worse. Combustion temperatures will skyrocket and catistropic failure is certain to occur. If the proportion is such that too much fuel is delivered, the power advantage degrades rapidly.
As you can see, nitrous oxide is like any other power increasing modification in that, when used wisely and installed properly, it works well. Then used foolishy or installed incorectly it can significantly reduced the reliability/durability of your engine.
Small doses of nitrous oxide can be used in stock engines to gain 25-35% more power. In my opinion, any more than nitrous than that with a stock engine compromises durability too much. This is not only true of nitrous but any modification. Take a stock 82 or 84 engine, up the horsepower to 300hp and do nothing to improve durability and your engine will eventually suffer. Once you pass the 35% power increase mark with nitrous oxide you need to look at things like forged pistons, better connectiing rods, better bearings, etc.
Nitrous oxide is also a great value on a dollar-per-unit-power increase when installed and operated properly. The downside, of course, is the fun ends quiclky. The power boost lasts as long as the nitrous. The average bottle is a 20 pounder and with a street V8 that might be worth 20 seconds of use.
So, nitrous oxide is not the instant-engine-failure many people think it is. When used properly and when dispensed by a properly designed and installed system nitrous oxide can be responsible for some phenominal increases in power.
cYa
__________________
John Carrell
Be verwy verwy qwyite
It's import hunting season
1995 GTS..W/ a few basic bolt ons "It's a turd
|^^^^^^^^^^^) ||
| B u d w e i s e r | ||'""|""\___,
| _____________ l ||__|_|___| )
(@!)!(@)"""""**|(@) (@)***|(@)
the reason why it nitrous is considered cheating, is that USAC and NASCAR drivers used it on a regular basis as soon as they were able to get their hands on it. From a reliable source, A.J. Foyt's drivers have used nitrous in the IRL's qualifying. Billy Gliden was banned from the NHRA for useing giggle gas.....it has been used by cheaters for many years, and that is why many old time hot rodders call it a cheaters tool.
Originally posted by ShakyJake Nitrous Oxide is a chemical compound used to boost a vehicle's performance. I see it as a "cheat" because it's not an actual mechanical component that's increase engine performance.
N2O is steroids for a vehicle. And it's obvious from those who are hiding their NOS kits that they feel they are doing something unfair.
So is a supercharger cheating and a steriod? Hell using higher gasoline is a chemical used to boost a vehicles performance, so is that cheating? Adding mufflers, headers, intake, heads, maf, tb, pulleys,t/a is used to boost a vehicle's performance.
Anyway, like I said initially I don't race my car to begin with. All I know is, if I were to race some guy and he used nitrous, I wouldn't be beating myself up on the loss. Any vehicle that requires a "push of a button" to make itself competitive is pretty cheese-ball.
What i like to know is how was i flaming him by havine a picture saying he is getting owned? Does anyone even remotely have a clue as to what flaming is? I can show you if I have to.
All that was is to show him he was clearly schooled on what nitrous was. Nothing was being said to him that was of derogatory remarks.
Seems like this site is afraid for others to talk about a difference of opinion. I can only wonder how you learn something here when anything objectionable is removed
Personally, I do not like nitrous oxcide, it is cheap power that can cause a ton of internal damage if it is not tuned right. as for the cheating aspect, I do not consider it cheating if
1. you can see the bottle
2. you can see the plumbing
3. there are stickers to let you know
4. the driver lets you know.
I do consider it cheating if you have a guy by a few car lengths, then all of a sudden he is far infront of you, and he says that it is all engine. If it is known that juice is not allowed at an event and someone uses it...cheating, if it is in the rules or heads up, cool
Originally posted by blackfang What i like to know is how was i flaming him by havine a picture saying he is getting owned? Does anyone even remotely have a clue as to what flaming is? I can show you if I have to.
All that was is to show him he was clearly schooled on what nitrous was. Nothing was being said to him that was of derogatory remarks.
Seems like this site is afraid for others to talk about a difference of opinion. I can only wonder how you learn something here when anything objectionable is removed
the only thing removed was some name calling, we have a 0 tolerance level to personal attacks to ANYONE for any reason. If someone said that member X was an idiot, it would be yanked, thats all, Here at AFM, we have viewers of all ages and do recieve many e-mails from children under 10. The staff of AFM has agreed that people are expected to act like adults. As for knowlege of what flaming is, yes, I know all levels of flaming, and I will not stand for any flaming. Period. The best way to change a person's mind about something is facts, such as Billy Gliden is useing nitrous in Pro-5.0 and is beating turboed and supercharged cars on a regular basis. If we were to pull anything contriversial, then the debate on gun control would not have 200 posts...
I never named called him. All i did was post a pic of the Dell guy saying your getting owned. Like i said apparently people don't know what a flame is. Nothing in my post was a flame or distasteful for a 10 year old. Hell I have heard worse from 10 year olds. Like i said people over react here and it is amzing how anyone can learn from someone here. I got a pm because i was trying to set the facts straight( tastefully) about a 02GT vs 02 SS and the pm says to calm it down? What is that about? Mods more worried that i may make someone crybecause they interpret my post wrong then set the record straight about mustangs and f-bodies.
Anyway, like I said initially I don't race my car to begin with. All I know is, if I were to race some guy and he used nitrous, I wouldn't be beating myself up on the loss. Any vehicle that requires a "push of a button" to make itself competitive is pretty cheese-ball.
Then i guess the NHRA funny cars, top fuel, and pro stock are not competitive. Nor is any renegade outlaw race. This topic should be named complaints from the ricers on why they lose. Since you hate n20, you should go to MIR for domestic vs imports where the domestics can't run a power adder, and the imports can run 2. That sounds fair for you.
Originally posted by blackfang I never named called him. All i did was post a pic of the Dell guy saying your getting owned. Like i said apparently people don't know what a flame is. Nothing in my post was a flame or distasteful for a 10 year old. Hell I have heard worse from 10 year olds. Like i said people over react here and it is amzing how anyone can learn from someone here. I got a pm because i was trying to set the facts straight( tastefully) about a 02GT vs 02 SS and the pm says to calm it down? What is that about? Mods more worried that i may make someone crybecause they interpret my post wrong then set the record straight about mustangs and f-bodies.
I removed the text in question, that text, and the pidture was just slightly over the top. As for saying that you have heard worse, well so have I, but we are adults here, and we expect people to treat each other with respect. If you have any more questions, please contact one of the mods in a PM.
Originally posted by blackfang
Then i guess the NHRA funny cars, top fuel, and pro stock are not competitive. Nor is any renegade outlaw race. This topic should be named complaints from the ricers on why they lose. Since you hate n20, you should go to MIR for domestic vs imports where the domestics can't run a power adder, and the imports can run 2. That sounds fair for you.
um, Top Fuel and Funny Cars run on a fuel that is 90% nitro-methane and 10% alcohol and do not carry a bottle, it is against the rules to use nitrous oxide in Pro-Stock, Billy Gliden was banned for a year for useing it. Renegade Outlaws were developed as an open compitiion for the people that did not want any rules, hence the name.
hey twister have you heard of Venom NOS?? It has a computer that works with your computer so you don't do any damage to your engine. Or so i have heard, i have never really looked into it. I would rather pay the extra money and get a supercharger, so i will always have lil extra poop. cya
cya
