[Foolish]

This Sunday, my wife and I will be doing our first autocross in the Mustang. We've 'crossed my Miata, our RX-7, my Protege sedan, and her Protege5 over the last 7 years, but have done almost none since my son was born 3 years ago.

Now I've got the Mustang, and I've got to know what it will do when pushed. So far, I've been reluctant to push it at all, and I routinely take corners far faster in the Protege than I do in the Mustang.

This Sunday, my Mazda club is holding an autocross, and we'll be there! I'll get grief for bringing a high-torque, low-grip car, but the club's autocrosses are super-casual, with lots of runs and lots of opportunities to jump in other cars for ride-alongs, so it's cool.

I don't have a set of race tires for this car yet, but I did get two sets of stock wheels/tires when I bought the car, and the older set is too worn down for much other than race duty. My plan is to put the old set on, drive the car to the autocross, race it, then drive home on them. I'm a bit worried that I'll chew them up on track though, so I'm thinking of taking two of the newer set with me to throw on whichever end (probably the rear) starts looking ugly. I'd rather just take the full set and change them there, but having the convertible, I just don't have the room, especially with my son in the back seat!

So, all that said, I'm looking forward to it.

Anybody running an S197 convertible in autocrosses? Any tips? Tires pressures? Traction control on or off?

Anybody know if the V-6 has a rev-limiter, or where it is?

I'll post up pictures after the event.

[hotshot]

I know the GT is set at 6,250 RPM's. I assume the 4.0 is lower but don't have an exact figure.

[Dogstar]

The Stang will handle nothing like the Miata, guaranteed. I took mine out once just to see how it would handle. Granted, each run I ran harder and faster, but also more push on the front. The rougher the surface, the more chewed up your tires will be. I showed more wear on the fronts. I think I was running with 37 - 38 psi and didn't roll too bad. As far as the TC, I've heard different theories. I think a lot depends on how well you can control your ride.

[hatawna]

sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun!

mustangs weren't designed to take on twists and turns as evidenced by solid rear axle. can't even compare it to how those mazdas handle.

something tells me your car is stock. haven't done that kind of racing for a longtime but basic preparations would be tires and suspension incl. wheel alignment, putting in more negative camber and outer toe than normal. if you could find a way to make the suspension more stiff at the front w/o breaking your wallet then consider doing it. next would be getting the car as light as possible, you know, removing the spare and rear seat. we also take out the carpeting and door panels but that's pushing it. not so sure if you wanna go that far. we normally set the tires at 35psi to make sure that it's stiff enough and it doesn't fold. if you've got a different set of tires for your run then that's much better.

if you ask me, my focus would be more on handling than power. anybody can go fast on a straight line but autocross is all about the fastest around the corners.

about TC, i turn it off 'coz it prevents me from pushing a little bit more above the limits of traction.

good luck and enjoy!

[Foolish]

Yeah, the Mustang is pretty much stock. For now. We're hunting for better jobs and looking to get back into a house ASAP, so money spent on the Mustang will $0 for the foreseeable future. I hope to do suspension within a year or so, but with the national economy in the crapper, we'll have to see how the family economy shakes out!

As for the autocross, I'm really looking forward to it, but I'm fully expecting to humiliate myself. The last 3 years have seen almost no autocrossing for me, and what little I have done has been in our modded, FWD econo-boxes. I expect Sunday to be educational and highly entertaining.

The Mazda club 'crosses usually allow for 6+ runs, and my wife and I will both be racing, so hopefully, we'll get a chance to dial in tire pressures and experiment with TC on and off. There are always better, more experienced racers there that are willing to ride along and give advice, so I'll be sure to take some of them for a ride, too.

Thanks for the replies gang, I'll post up my experience and impressions after the event.

[hatawna]

that's cool! there also is an autocross event this weekend here in california. im just gonna watch for now.

rally, autocross, karting and circuit racing are more of my thing than drag racing. i used to do a lot of it but i never planned a career out of it, so it wasn't my priority. w/o sponsors, it's pretty tough to keep up with guys backed up by big companies like bridgestone, k&n, bbs, eibach, greddy, mobil oil, etc.

do you walk the track or do you just drive right away? being a passenger of an expert works for me more than having an expert as a passenger.

you might have a different experience autocrossing in a mustang compared to mine. pls let me know what you find out then let's compare notes.

have fun at the track!

[Foolish]

I always walk the track once or twice. I'd love to take one of my mountain bikes sometime and ride the track 5-6 times to get a better feel, but I'm not sure how that would go down. For one thing, I'd probably annoy some of the other racers, and for another, I'd spend the rest of the day worrying about my bike getting run over or stolen!

This weekend, I'll get to walk the course with my son, which will probably detract significantly from my ability to pay attention, but should still be fun!

[Brent05redfire]

I will tell you something about these S197's and autocrossing. they will push in the corners if you are on the brake or coasting through a corner. if you want the back end to follow the front end, you have got to be on the gas. sounds like a no brainer, being a high torque rear wheel drive car. but you would be amazed how much you forget to remember when you are in the heat on the track.
my rule of thumb is be on the brake or on the gas. sometimes both at the same time and never neither at the same time. I learned to left foot brake and it improved my time betwen brake and acceleration drastically.
on stock tires and set up, I run 45 psi in the front and 40 psi in the back. but check your tires after each run and see if you need more or less air.

have fun!! that first time around the cones in your Mustang will be a hoot!!

[Foolish]

Thank you, Brent. It's good to get feedback from someone who's 'crossed the new 'Stang.

Gas and/or brake, all the time, huh? Makes sense. Pretty much second gear the whole way, too, I'd imagine? Most of my autocross efforts have gone:
..1st gear to redline.
..2nd gear the rest of the way around, don't worry about reaching redline, that comes around 7000 RPM!
..hope none of the turns are tight enough to require a drop back down to 1st.

I suppose with Mustang torque, I won't have to worry much about down shifting this weekend. That should be fun!

[hatawna]

once i ran my car through a course to see how she handles. i knew what to expect since the stang is bigger (if not the biggest) car that i've thrown around corners plus it was stock, and it wasn't that bad. but a lot needs to be done.

im sure you're aware that FWD and RWD cars behave differently since you've raced both drivetrains before. on RWD cars, what i normally do is to brake late coming into a corner, point the car where i want it to go then mash on the gas. it's like brake, then gas and turn at the same time, w/ the occasional heel & toe under braking so i could downshift. it's pretty much the same motion for FWD, except that I brake and turn sooner, and this allows me to gas sooner as well, allowing the car to glide out of the apex. braking at the corner shifts all the car's weight to the front, upsets the car's balance and before you could gas on, you've missed the apex, losing time in the process. i brake w/ my left foot only if it's a long sweeping fast turn and it's just tapping on the pedal. otherwise, heel & toe works for me

AWD cars require different treatment too but that's another topic.

by the way, don't forget the handbrake. you might need it for the course so be prepared to tape release button.

[Dogstar]

Originally Posted by hatawna

by the way, don't forget the handbrake. you might need it for the course so be prepared to tape release button.

Interesting thought. I've been 'crossing 3yrs and haven't heard of anyone doing this. What conditions would warrant this?

I've only been on one course where I've felt the need to down shift into 1st. We usually have a couple tight turns after the start so going to 2nd differs every time.

We have an "endurocross" this weekend. Should be fun.

[Foolish]

Yeah, I didn't want to sound critical, but from my experience, if you need the handbrake, you're doing something wrong. If you're so hot into the turn that you need to e-brake it, you're going in too hot, and you're going to lose a lot of time trying to Tokyo Drift it around the corners.

Besides, taking a hand off of the wheel during any turn that tight has got to be a mistake!

I like the phrase "go slow to go fast." It's so easy to carry too much speed into a turn, which forces hard braking, which shaves off all your speed, requiring harder acceleration off the turn, etc.

If you brake a bit earlier, in a straight line before the corner, you go in just a bit slower, pick a better line, then power it through.

All of this is great in theory, of course, but mostly I just flail around the course and try not to make too big of a fool of myself!

[Brent05redfire]

a good thing to remember is it takes A LOT less time to go from 60 to 0 than it does to go from 0 to 60. everytime you touch the brake, you lose precious momentum.

on the E-brake trick. I used to use that on my FWD turbo car I would autocross. but, I only used it on 180 degree turn arounds.

[hatawna]

Originally Posted by Dogstar

Interesting thought. I've been 'crossing 3yrs and haven't heard of anyone doing this. What conditions would warrant this?

experience has taught me to be always prepared for the "just in case" and not having to need it, than needing it and not having it. you might need it on a hairpin, you wouldn't know. me and my friends we keep it taped and that's how we've been doing it since the time when the Yugo was launched.

"to be fast, you have to go slow" does hold true. going overboard, you lose time. but if you don't carry that much speed coming into a corner, you lose time too. of course, missing apexes also affects your time but missing 1 or 2 is still recoverable. unless it's drift racing that you're joining in, it's your worst enemy at the track...in the dry.

late braking does work but not for all corners. like, from a straight coming into a tight turn or a 180, braking late allows you to carry on your momentum and sling yourself out of it. but you should set yourself up before you dive in by being in the right gear before you turn. that way, you've got both hands on the wheel as you turn. some say 9&3 is the way to go but i tend to be at home w/ 10&2. for others, 11&3 works just as fine.

it's apparent that we've all got different approaches and techniques in dealing with a closed-course racing. in any case, the weekend is shaping up to be a good one. it should be a fun day at the track! hope somebody lends me a car

[Brent05redfire]

here is a video of me at an event last December. I love watching this clip.

YouTube - autocross 12-2-07