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Old 09-03-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default 66 fastback suspension setup for HPDE

Ok i searched and could only come up with suspension setups for fox bodies and up i now have a 66 fastback that i want to setup for the street and HPDE events does any one use there car in such a way and if so what are you using for parts and what is a recommended brake upgrade......any advice will help just to give some back groung i have done events in these cars that i have owned..06 roush..liked the power and brakes just felt to heavy....94 gt with steeda suspension and cobra brakes liked this setup a lot but needed more power....87 944 turbo track car loved it fast handled incerdible but was just way to expensive to own..so now i have this fastback i want to build into a great all round car but dont want to waste time on the wrong parts ...thanks in advance..Barry
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Old 09-03-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Default Suspension Mods for '65-'67 Mustang

With the '65 thru '72, the best set up is to duplicate the Shelby concepts on the front double A arms. It was outlined in the '70 book by Ford:How to set up the Boss 302 for road racing. It carried the modification a little further than the Shelby did, but the effects are as dramatic.

Essentially, the inner pivot point of the upper A arm needs to be lowered. Shelby cars of '65, and '66 dropped the points one inch, and Ford for pure racing cars went to one and one-half inch lower. It will drastically revise the geometry of the front end, ending understeer, and promote a neutral handling chassis responsive to throttle input.

Instructions are simple: remove the spring, shock, sway bar links, and unbolt the upper arms (two nuts per side). Incidentally, do not unbolt the ball joint. Swing the arm out of the way, and drill two new holes parallel to the originals, just one inch lower (more if desired...see above). Reattach the upper arms in the new lower holes, reassemble the springs and shocks, and then realign the front suspension to Shelby specs. Camber can be increased for track work, and Caster can go to three degrees.

Be aware that the front end will drop from one half to one inch with this modification. A good point is you can return the car to original with out leaving marks.

Cost: rental of spring compressor, and the cost of a QUALITY drill bit. Use a 1/2 inch drill motor for the power.

I did this in 1970, and used the car very successfully in
Autocross.

Rear suspension needs good springs, and articulating traction bars. Depending on the grip of the tires (racing), you might consider a panhard rod, or Watts linkage. Sway bar in the rear is optional. Quality shocks should be used to match the high spring rates, too.

Limited Slip differentials are manditory (can also use a spool), as long as it is not open.

I have done all of the above, and had a ball. Hope you do too.

Good racing.

Bill
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Old 09-04-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info Bill ,i know there are some fast vintage racing mustangs out there that are still using this setup ...This will be my suspensions staring point...any idea on what spring rates work best?????
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Old 09-04-2009   #4 (permalink)
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No. Things have changed a lot since I did this modification in 1971. Shocks have improved also, of course. Best advice is to scour the web for vintage racers of that generation Mustang. I'd concentrate on the actual racers for the best spring rate advice.

Best of luck.

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Old 09-05-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Personally I'd talk to one of the companies that sells the modern conversion setups like Total Control or equal...get a modern coilover and rack pinion front end with 5 link rear, I'd bet that's how the "old" racers go fast now through the turns...I'm sure they can assist on the spring rates too...good luck
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Old 09-08-2009   #6 (permalink)
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griggs make a set up that would be awesome on that car.
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Old 09-09-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Has anyone used a "Grab a Track:" suspension setup from mustang plus?????
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Old 09-10-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billf View Post
It was outlined in the '70 book by Ford:How to set up the Boss 302 for road racing.
does anyone know were or if that book is available?
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Old 09-11-2009   #9 (permalink)
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streetortrack.com

I have spent time personally with Sean the owner. He tests what he uses. Takes notes, track times, etc. Changes parts, goes back out. Family guy that loves early Mustangs and made it into a small business.
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Old 09-14-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebj View Post
Has anyone used a "Grab a Track:" suspension setup from mustang plus?????
The hard parts are all basic stock replacement stuff with a larger front sway bar. The KYB shocks they sell in the 'kits' are also not suitable for racing in my opinion.
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Old 09-30-2009   #11 (permalink)
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It depends more on your budget and what you want out of it.There is 3 link kits front coilovers even kits to use cobra brakes on it.
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Old 10-01-2009   #12 (permalink)
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ok i sold the car needed too much work to finish so im going back to a sn95.......thanks for the help
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13 (permalink)
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Well after thinking about it after the sale of my fastback ..i picked up a 65 coupe setup like the old transam cars of the 60`s ..it has a 351 cleveland toploader box and a 9 inch out back with a locker in it ..it also has 4 piston disc brakes up front with 2 1/5 inch drum setup out back ,it has the shelby drop up front with koni shocks all round as well as an adjustable panard rod.. big fender fares to cover 15 x 8.5 up front and 15x 10`s out back ....all this for 4k..i love it cant wait to get it to the track
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...dthedrside.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...edpassside.jpg
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Old 1 Week Ago   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebj View Post
Well after thinking about it after the sale of my fastback ..i picked up a 65 coupe setup like the old transam cars of the 60`s ..it has a 351 cleveland toploader box and a 9 inch out back with a locker in it ..it also has 4 piston disc brakes up front with 2 1/5 inch drum setup out back ,it has the shelby drop up front with koni shocks all round as well as an adjustable panard rod.. big fender fares to cover 15 x 8.5 up front and 15x 10`s out back ....all this for 4k..i love it cant wait to get it to the track
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...dthedrside.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...edpassside.jpg

Hi aussiebj,

I've done two vintage Mustangs ('66 fastback & '69 Boss 302) and limited my suspension, chassis and brake upgrades to mostly period correct changes. About the worst thing about these early Mustangs on a road course was the stock suspension geometry and brakes.

Improving the front suspension is simple stuff and there is not much that you need to change. The biggest improvement to be found is relocating the front upper control arms 1" to 1.5" lower. This is a MAJOR improvement in geometry which allows you to use much less static camber and still keep the front tire contact patch optimal for cornering and more importantly braking! Additionally this change raises the front roll center height which also helps the tire contact patch by reducing tire sidewall rollover.

To help the chassis actually work with firmer springs you also need to triangulate the front subframe, improving the front subframe stiffness is also a big handling boost. Both of these things are easy to do with stiffening done by using factory Monte Carlo bar or the pricier but very good TCI kits.

What spring rates you use will depend on if it the car will be a street car or a race car. Original 1965/66 Shelby street cars used 625lb. front springs and a rear leaf spring with an extra leaf and bolted-on or welded- on control arms. This is adequate but the truth is that no matter what you do with the mounts for the rear leaf springs the rear axle is going to move a round a LOT under hard cornering and this is VERY noticable even on modern high performance street tires. To get the ass end to work its best you need to install a Watt's link and make sure it can be adjusted for roll center height for a race application.

Some folks will tell you to go with a Panhard bar setup but a Panhard bar is a serious compromise on a leaf spring rear axle. The problem is made even worse if the axle also has the extra control arms installed on the rear axle. Think about what a Panhard bar is doing with the axle as it travels through its arc and you will see the axle must move side to side slightly as the axle moves up and down. This causes the rear springs to bind as the axle moves up and down in its travel which is not a good idea. A Watt's link by comparison only allows the rear axle to move in a virtually perfectly VERTICAL line which is what the leaf springs naturally want to do so they will have no additonal spring rate added and the rear axle will operate much smoother than with a Panhard bar setup.

The only other thing to do at the rear axle is to install control arms. I prefer the later under spring type control arms but you have to keep in mind that you need to allow for pinion angle changes with these control arms and be certain to set your rear ride height with the under spring control arms level with the ground or you will get roll induced oversteer that can be quite surprising.

Add adjustable anti-roll bars to balance front/rear handling once you have your basic spring rates and have selected wheels and tires. On these early cars body roll is less of an issue as far as handling and geometry goes but of course flatter is going to be prefered by most drivers. But when picking anti-roll bars for the car you need to keep in mind that your front roll stiffness will be noticably higher if you relocated your upper front control arms.

I mention them last but the most important suspension parts are your dampers. Bilsteins valved for a range of springs rates are available as are the correct Koni dampers. Koni's are adjustable but are still pretty stiff for a street driven car.

HTH!
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