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How to stay focused on skills versus car?

3K views 28 replies 9 participants last post by  Urambo Tauro 
#1 ·
I am fairly new to the track game (about 10 hours actual track time so far, plus all the class time that goes with it) but feel like I am running up against the limitations of the car quite often.

I know I should be focusing in skills to squeeze out the most possible from the car; but can't help getting a little frustrated and wanting to just go faster when I am getting passed. This leads to thoughts of better tires, engine, brakes, etc. . . . .

Suggestions on "mind games" or whatever it takes to deal with this?

Practice routines or thought training that can be used in the off season?

Other thoughts / suggestions / ideas?

thanks in advance
 
#2 ·
Start taking lap times. See where you're at and where you should be compared to others in your class/type car. Look at the track and determine the turns that are costing you time, try to determine why and try different approaches to reduce that lost time. Work on braking later. It took an American Iron race driver to do a ride along to teach me how to brake later. We instinctively want to brake early, due to driving on the streets for years. Gotta learn a new mindset when road racing and it takes practice, patience and nerve. Approach it a little at a time till you are comfortable and find your braking limit. Let a faster car pass you, then try to stay with him/her. Watch their lines, when they brake, etc... What's helped me the past 2 years to get ready for TT, is taking lap times and working on troubled turns where I know I can go faster and work on later braking. If I know other cars like mine are turning in faster lap times, then the problem is me and I can work on that by analyzing each run and every once in a while, have a racer do a ride along...we pick up or revert to old habits easily, so having another driver point things out, kinda wakes us up.
 
#4 ·
thanks for all this!

Start taking lap times. See where you're at and where you should be compared to others in your class/type car.
I am taking lap times, but don't have anything to compare them to, at the events I have been doing. One thing for sure: my best times are when I get a clean lap, not slowed down by traffic. My clean laps are fairly consistent, within a second or so.

Look at the track and determine the turns that are costing you time, try to determine why and try different approaches to reduce that lost time.
It's usually the tight ones where the car "plows". (My word, really understeer) I guess this is a key thing to work on -- where is that limit where you can get through clean, without half plowing / sliding.

Work on braking later. It took an American Iron race driver to do a ride along to teach me how to brake later.
I took a ride with my instructor (2014 GT with track pads, cooling ducts, and track tires) and learned what real braking feels like. I started trying to work in that direction; but fairly quickly hit the ABS and/or the tires start to squeal. Understand the limit braking is something to work on -- the point where the ABS is about to kick in. I am getting pretty close, can feel the ABS just "ticking" a little when it's just about right.

Let a faster car pass you, then try to stay with him/her. Watch their lines, when they brake, etc...
Last time I did that, I spun and ended up in the grass, LOL! Thankfully that was at Thompson where there is a lot of run off room; check out some of the videos of Palmer in Massachusetts, definitely don't want to do that there, nothing but rocks and concrete walls.

. . . . having another driver point things out, kinda wakes us up.
Understood
 
#5 ·
Suggestions on "mind games" or whatever it takes to deal with this?

Practice routines or thought training that can be used in the off season?

Other thoughts / suggestions / ideas?

thanks in advance
Learn to look at every turn and corner that you encounter on the street as a stretch of pavement for which an optimum line exists - even while staying completely in your own lane the whole way through it. In fact, making sure that you don't cut over into an adjacent lane inside yours might be good practice for avoiding a too-early turn in. You don't need to be going fast to do this, and eventually the track day notions of the line, turn-in, apexing, and tracking out should just start making sense. You already have some classroom introduction and hands-on experience here. Use it.

Traffic permitting - or more accurately the lack of it - don't be afraid to use the brakes a lot harder than necessary from time to time. It'll help keep you current.

With a little luck, the above will come to feel right and maybe even normal. When you get out on the track you might discover that except for the higher speeds and somewhat harder and more sustained braking you really aren't thinking or doing anything all that much differently. An easy out lap on a cool morning while you're warming tires and brakes might not feel much different from street driving.

That's about as good as I can sum up 50 years of driving with an attitude decidedly skewed toward corner-carving. And as a side note, the smoother you can do all that - in itself a good thing to learn for your track time - the less you will disturb/scare any passengers should you get a clear opportunity to "turn the wick up" for a moment or two on, say, an Interstate on-ramp.


Norm
 
#6 ·
Learn to look at every turn and corner that you encounter on the street as a stretch of pavement for which an optimum line exists . . . .
I know exactly what you are talking about, because I do it already . . . so I'll keep it up.

I find myself thinking "turn in" . . . "apex" . . . "track out" . . . all the time. On the country roads around here, it's quite common to drive in the middle of the road . . . have to remind myself I can't actually use the WHOLE track, er I mean road . . . Gotta watch out for pedestrians on these blind corners, can't take them too tight! :wink:

I like the braking practice idea too; I do get plenty of opportunities when there is nobody behind me, though it does feel strange to be doing that on the street.

I think I have completely lost my mind. . . . ;-)
 
#7 ·
Be your own competition. Don't compare yourself to others. Be the best you can be. Your opponent is the track itself.

Unless you're in a spec-style competition, other cars might genuinely be faster than yours. Don't let that frustrate you. Play to your strengths, but work on your weaknesses.
 
#9 ·
Im sure somebody has already suggested this...
Let an instructor drive your car at every event you do (with you as a passenger of course). Once you can lap in your car as fast as they lap in your car...then your ready for modifications.

The other most obvious, but less popular route it to go to a high quality driving school. These are invaluable!!!
The biggest improvements to my on track driving & lap times have always been the result of quality instruction. Yes I know it is expensive...so is the hobby of driving a car on track. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on driving schools...& would be happy to do it all over again in a heart beat.
Find a good quality program in your area...spend 2K-3K and a couple days of your time...you will have more fun than you thought was possible & will come away with driving skills that are normally reserved for pro-racers.
 
#12 ·
...Let an instructor drive your car at every event you do (with you as a passenger of course). Once you can lap in your car as fast as they lap in your car...then your ready for modifications.

The other most obvious, but less popular route it to go to a high quality driving school. These are invaluable!!! . . . .
My instructor did a couple laps in my car at a recent event, but he was mostly showing me the line and not pushing it, so I was faster right away . . . . will keep this in mind next time and ask them to step it up after they get comfortable with my car.

Agree wholeheartedly, a driving school is a must for those that plan on moving up and want to get into competitive classes.
Any ideas on where and how to find them? Do they travel around to local tracks, or do you have to travel to go to them? The winter would be a great time to look into this, to get ready for next spring.

. . . during the off-season. . . . when the New England tracks may well be covered in snow.
This makes me think that driving in the snow is good practice for working at the limits of traction. But don't really want to take the mustang out in that stuff with its summer-only tires; and the Camry winter car is front wheel drive.
 
#11 ·
↑↑↑ Both excellent suggestions, but OP is looking for things that will help keep him current with what he's already learned and/or been exposed to . . . during the off-season. That would be when the New England tracks may well be covered in snow.


Norm
 
#13 ·
Snow driving in an empty parking lot - about the only low-risk conditions I can think of for what you have in mind - is probably best taken as good practice for driving on a cold wet track, or a track with a reputation for being unusually slick when wet (*cough* . . . Mid-Ohio), or for a session where the texture of the pavement is barely visible at best. There is too much difference in the way the car behaves at 1g vs 0.2g or less to extrapolate anything useful either way.


I happen to live only two blocks drive from a paved neighborhood pool parking lot, and while I take a little practice there most every time it snows without the snow getting too deep, I can't say that that practice has yet been beneficial to any dry track HPDE driving. At best it's maybe given me better feel for when to just throw away a dry-weather autocross run and take the DNF for missing a gate completely instead of insisting on trying to save it.


Norm
 
#15 ·
Thanks for those links . . . they all look like great fun, and driving a single-seat open wheel car is on my bucket list . . . but not sure it is in the cards for the near future.

I was hoping to find a school that comes to a track near me, and lets me use my own car. Basically a step up from a HPDE track day. Maybe that is not realistic since there are too many variables involved for the people who run the classes. But maybe I'll try to contact the guy at my local track to see if he has any ideas.

The Ohio one does look feasible, I could drive there from here in one long day. Hmmmmm . . . .
 
#16 ·
Driving Mindset

I agree with what everyone says on instruction for the track as they can get you out of your comfort zone. Braking zone and coasting is usually an area for improvement in the beginning that will help. Generally should be on the gas or brake. Practice the braking threshold on the street(No ABS engaging) and same with heel-toe shifting. The impulse is to buy new stuff for the car, but do so slowly. Too many changes may throw the dynamics of the car off and change what you are used to.

Learn from faster cars, but do not get fixated on them. If you have videos of your track time, watch them and learn where their are opportunities for improvements Ie, not using the entire track, smooth transition from gas, brake, or shifting. brake zone distance, turn in early vs late. Identify when you messed up in a corner or what you should have done.
 
#17 ·
thanks P . . . it get's a little overwhelming with all of these things to think about and work on at the same time.

Is there a progression, or what to work on first so you can focus on it; and then move on to the other things?

Like when I play the drums and I want do to something new with my right foot (kick drum) I get the hands and other foot on "auto pilot" and then I can (somewhat) forget about them and just focus on the new thing.

I'm thinking learn the line first so you don't have to think about it too much any more; then braking and/or acceleration and/or shifting points, then finally turn up the speed to find the limit?
 
#18 ·
I'm thinking learn the line first so you don't have to think about it too much any more; then braking and/or acceleration and/or shifting points, then finally turn up the speed to find the limit?
Sounds about right. I think you'll want to have developed some feel for knowing immediately that you've turned in too soon or run wide of your apex by much more than a tire width before turning the wick up too far. At some point, if it didn't feel right, it probably wasn't, and it'll take a little time to get used to tire slip and slip angles here.


Norm
 
#23 ·
No not yet . . . . believe it or not I have two road tracks within less than one hour drive, but the closest Autocross I have found is about 1-1/2 hours away . . . . but do plan to do that soon; I think the last one of the year is November 30 and maybe I'll go check it out.

pikapp, TT is racing against the clock, not the other drivers, right? :wink:
 
#25 ·
Im sorry JBert...I didn't think about the fact that you are on the East Coast.
You may have to travel to find a good school in the off season. All of pikapp's suggestions for schools are good!
In your neck of the country...try Monticello Motorsports Club & Alpine Motorsports Club. Or, on the West Coast...try Spring Mountain Motorsports Park. These are all PREMIER facilities with top notch schools! This is where the elite & pro's go to learn this trade.

Yes, the next time you have an instructor in your car...have them get comfortable & then let them push the envelope. Try to pick an instructor or poor that drives a similar car to yours. The goal is to see where you are on pace & where you are not. You might find that you are just as fast in some portions of the track. Pay close attention to when you are not! Learn where they are lifting, shifting, braking, turn-in, etc...how is they're line different from yours.

Most importantly...be humble. Learn from the people around you that are fast...instructor, pro & fellow track day guy alike! If they are fast, talk to them. Ask about parts of the track that you are off pace in.

A great example of this was at a track day event last week that I attended. I didn't drive, but went up to watch & help out a bunch of buddies.
-One guy was already really fast...we basically just swapped notes & looked at data. He got about 1-2 seconds faster.
-2nd guy was very in-experienced...we talked about lines & I even did a ride-a-long with him & gave him on track pointers. He dropped 4 seconds a lap! Then we had him ride with the fast guy...he dropped another 2 seconds!!!
-3rd guy was experienced but slow...he had far to much ego. He wouldn't listen to any advice. He ignored my invitation for a ride-a-long. He wouldn't ride with anybody else. He got slower & slower as the day progressed. He kept coming back to the car..."the car is underpowered" (its not...500+hp)
"my tires are junk", "the car is to heavy", etc...
I had let him borrow my GoPro for a few sessions. When I got home & downloaded the video, I saw that his lines were ****!!!
Don't be that guy!:wink:
 
#26 ·
Practice makes ....... you will improve every year, here on the coastal bend of Texas I use country roads for practice, my 3.7 is well balanced and I am upgrading the pony surely every season, next year I'll attend some auto x and a track or two, patience "grasshopper".
 
#27 · (Edited)
Change of Subject.
I'll be posting in the AFM classifieds - Mustang S197 For Sale/Classifieds, this weekend my Roush Interior seats and my 2 year old Sparco EVO II US seat. Roush stuff will be driver, passenger and rear seat, in Roush Blue leather covering. Will also have the driver and passenger side door panels and center console to sell. Gutting the rest of the car, trying to get weight down. Will be pulling Shaker radio and door glass this weekend. Will probably post up the radio too.
 
#28 ·
. . .
I'll be posting in the AFM classifieds - Mustang S197 For Sale/Classifieds, . . . . .
Where the heck are the classifieds / how do I find them?

Looked through all the menus and don't see it, but I know it's out there somewhere . . . . thanks
 
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