[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I'd hate to see this forum get overmodded. No pun intended

LOL, so would I!

And its ok to joke about the subject, that was a good pun (oldie but goldie).

[EagleAutosports]

Let's all just remember we all have our own opinions, and thoughts on the matter and agree that everybody is entitled to their own. The problem is when it degenerates into getting personal with others. Not that has happened, let's just not let it go that far.

The point of this is Whipple and the price hike they're having.

I too agree about the 2%ers, they're a major PITA because they think because they buy something that they own the worker they want attention from. That isn't true at all, they think they're supposed to be #1 at all times and get pissy when they're not.

Let's just keep things between the lines. And we, the moderators, are here just to ensure things stay civil.

[sqidd]

Originally Posted by tripleblack

What I'm warning against is the sort of thing I see coming NEXT, but OK, this caught my eye:

"GoStang, you are the kind of person I fire before we even start work."

Direct and personal comment, the sort that can lead to more hot retorts in return.

Not singling you out, Sqidd, just trying to get the discussion back on Whipple and off of personalities about fellow members. Only reason I responded to your post (vs the whole series, which is what I was talking about) was that you asked. You're not the only one with some heat in their posts, and I actually agree with the facts of your position.

Just trying to keep the peace here.

This is long, but is it to you liking?
I have a habit of boxing someone into a corner but all the while not calling them names, not swearing at them and peppering them lots of small points which adds up to them blowing their top. I poke lightly with a dull stick, I just do it a lot.

And this particular subject is one of the only ones that will get a rise out of me. Small shops and even some big ones are lucky to make 8-10% at the end of the year. I can’t stand it when the misinformed assume everyone in the shop has a secret garage filled with Hemi Cudas, Ferraris, etc and like in a 5000sq ft house. Being a speed shop and working on the fringe it hard these days with Summit and Jegs out there. I think the customer base needs to be reeducated in regards to their purchasing habits and take a larger view of the situation. How much tech advice at the shop give you? How about Summit? If you are running 15 min late before the speed shop closes and you are a good customer (and I don’t define that based on how much they buy) someone will stick around for you so you can drive your car for the weekend.

Shop owners are just regular Joe’s. They do it because they like it, they certainly wont get rich. Those shop owners should be rewarded any time you can. So what if the part is $5 more at Jegs. The tech advice he is giving you is worth a lot more than the $5. The fact that you can go right into the shop and pick up what you need apposed to waiting day or two is very nice also.

I give all my Business to Paul at Paul’s High Performance in Jackson. He has always treated me fair, gives me great prices despite me never, ever asking for a discount. A perfect example of our relationship boils down to my Optima Red To Battery. I had it unhooked (actually turn off, there is a breaker witch is on the box) Over the winter it died. I recharged it and it was enough to start it but it was always on the edge, I called them up at PHP and told that I purchased the battery and it was in the car but the car still hadn’t started. With no questions asked he said come on down and gab a new one, I can still claim it under warranty. Now that is service. And the icing on the cake is that I am allowed to roam fee thought the shop and check out all the projects, ask a few questions, etc (no one else is allowed back there). And since Paul does this stuff for me I am loyal to the end.

If people start complaining more about over pricing they may just find themselves with no shops in the Detroit Metro Area and they will be forced to mail order everything. And I am sure that you need t talk to one of the guys at the shop that has put on 25 before so they know the tricks. Will Jegs or Summit be able to do that? Doubt it.


Margins are very low in Michigan right now. Metro Powersports just closed their doors and they were Hondas #1 selling single line dealer in the country. If they felt the hurt, everyone will at some point. It’s going to get worse before it gets better and I am afraid. For our hobby.

And two quick points:

The shops don’t have huge markups and are not making 50% on each sale, not even close

To pay overhead on a space you are looking at about $3,500 per month in lease payments, rent or mortgage.

You have $3000 in insurance a month that needs to be paid. Phone bills are $4-500.

When you call in paychecks you get whacked with a 10% business tax. That means that 10% is taken out of our account and it’s based on what the workers get paid.

Ok rant over, but please take care of your local shop that you are comfortable with and recommend them all the time, And Then make lady friends and send them FTD flowers every once in a while. They will love them! And you will have a shot at being ” A great guy” which will give you all sorts of perks. Hocky tickets. The German women can be very convincing through their work and can get creative down there and make things happen that you couldn’t anticipate.

Well, I’m sure you are sick or reading this so I will sign off..

This is for the moderators. I have a bad habit of debating things with people and sometimes the other party gets angry. I just like a good debate. I will tone down my questionable attacks for the strip. If you ever think I am out in left field please feel free to censor me and then shoot me a PM saying I was a bad boy

[Tillman Speed]

Even after the price increase is said and done.... they're making some great power. Just check out my other thread. You definitely get what you pay for.

Chris Rose
Tillman Speed Inc.
www.TillmanSpeed.com
610-497-5776

[GoStang]

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings tached, but I say that to anyone one that I feel is gouging the public. You and I both know that the mark-up on any Mod part is just stupid. I don't mind any business making a profit, but to try and make a killing then I object. If anyone wants to buy a Whipple I stand behind them $8000 or $9000 %. What you (Tached Out or Squid) say about me bothers me none, because you both are intitled to your opinions, much like me.

[FREAKNAZTY]

well not taking sides on any of this but i KNOW for a fact ( unless some1 gets better deals than i was offered lol ) squidd is right there is definatly not a 50% mark up by the shop itself, its all the manufacturer and to add to the shops defense if they do not sell the parts for the " listed price" as givin to them by the vendor then the vendor will pull their product and ban you from selling their parts ect.

[nite]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

Well I think he is just frustrated like me. No one wants to believe it's true. I made a commitment to only put FRPP or Steeda parts on my car and was waiting until the end of the year to go SC, but I will not pay another grand for the Whipple.

You have a Shelby... just get a Paxton and call it a day!

[tripleblack]

Originally Posted by FREAKNAZTY

well not taking sides on any of this but i KNOW for a fact ( unless some1 gets better deals than i was offered lol ) squidd is right there is definatly not a 50% mark up by the shop itself, its all the manufacturer and to add to the shops defense if they do not sell the parts for the " listed price" as givin to them by the vendor then the vendor will pull their product and ban you from selling their parts ect.

I can feel where GoStang is coming from - prices that just seem to always exceed the available money, and cherished plans getting delayed over and over...

Markups on SOME things are pretty high - 100% and more... Especially small accessory junk and some of the off-brand goods.

But major items with high end brand names have seen this "keystoning" going down the tubes for a long time. Car dealers used to have a lot of maneuvering room, which is where our "wheeler-dealer" culture came from, but that went away in the 90's. The most profitable part of most dealerships nowadays is their shop. If all the money they make came from selling new cars, they would ALL be bankrupt.

Manufacturers DO control major item pricing - and big ticket items like superchargers are very similar.

There are only a few manufacturers of the basic units (3 that I can think of off the top of my head for positive displacement blowers), and they sell to a small list that includes the likes of Whipple and MagnaCharger. Its a really small pond and the flexibility for the retailers downstream of these few big guys is very limited.

Eaton stays away from direct participation in the retail market, selling to the OE bigs like Ford and GM, or larger subordinate companies like Whipple that have only a partial retail exposure (they also do a lot of middle-man activity with Ford, of course).

I like forging a relationship with the local businesses that have what I need, whether it be parts, materials or services. Sure, sometimes this means that I might pay a little more than if I spent hours combing the internet - sweating out an Ebay auction - or driving long distances to visit some mega-store. I'm an old guy who's been doing this stuff for a very long time, and I can tell you folks - having an honest, dependable local businessman to work with is worth a TON, almost always costing less than the value received.

Sure, there are SOME things I can't find locally - at which point I dive in and do the internet shopping like everyone else. Because of how the world has changed in the last few decades, I'm often confronted with that problem - because more and more the local guys are getting eaten up by the big box stores.

It takes guts to go naked out into the market and carve out a little space for yourself. Give the guys who do this a break, and one day when you need them, they might be there.

I spent over a month researching the new blower offerings coming down the pike, and there are some interesting trends on the way. If the OE sales start to dry up (and there are signs this is happening, big time), you can expect the likes of Whipple, MagnaCharger and Roush to pay more attention to the aftermarket.

This will mean innovation and trustworthy prices driven by free market competition. The economic situation driving UP prices right now is showing signs of reversing - cheaper fuel, stronger dollars, and maybe, just maybe, not so many price increases. Don't be surprised if some of the price increase announcements get modified over the next year.

The one thing that we can all depend on is the truism that "Things change".

[Thereaper]

I would like to have a Whipple and if the price goes up I'll pay it. I get screwed more by the Government
than any parts dealer when it comes to money.

[sqidd]

Originally Posted by GoStang

I say that to anyone one that I feel is gouging the public.

Do those kind of super powers come with tights and a cape?

[Beagle1]

Talked to some pretty powerful people from Ford today at Mustang Alley during the Woodward Dream Cruise.

Everyone who was anyone was there. All the FRPP and SVT engineers, Mustang engineering staff, etc. etc.

Will be posting up some pics with my cars at the FRPP semi tomorrow.

Anyhow...the bottom line is that Whipple (and other Supercharger companies: Roush, Ford, KB, Manacharger, etc.) is not at fault for the price increase.

Look at the supplier of the core to place your blame.

I gained so much knowledge and info today, I am on overload. Stuff I used to know 15 yrs ago about the who's who in the supply arena, etc. Slowly getting back in the loop through racing and starting my own biz. I know I can't afford to be an FRPP dealer

As was mentioned...there is about a 200% mark up on most of that UPR type billet do-dad stuff.

Supercharger kit, dealer to customer? 20% if they are lucky and do enough volume to get a break. Otherwise, about 12%. That's selling at MSRP too!

Yeah, the dealers are really gouging

[tripleblack]

Eaton? Yes, I thought so too.

Originally Posted by Beagle1

Talked to some pretty powerful people from Ford today at Mustang Alley during the Woodward Dream Cruise.

Everyone who was anyone was there. All the FRPP and SVT engineers, Mustang engineering staff, etc. etc.

Will be posting up some pics with my cars at the FRPP semi tomorrow.

Anyhow...the bottom line is that Whipple (and other Supercharger companies: Roush, Ford, KB, Manacharger, etc.) is not at fault for the price increase.

Look at the supplier of the core to place your blame.

I gained so much knowledge and info today, I am on overload. Stuff I used to know 15 yrs ago about the who's who in the supply arena, etc. Slowly getting back in the loop through racing and starting my own biz. I know I can't afford to be an FRPP dealer

As was mentioned...there is about a 200% mark up on most of that UPR type billet do-dad stuff.

Supercharger kit, dealer to customer? 20% if they are lucky and do enough volume to get a break. Otherwise, about 12%. That's selling at MSRP too!

Yeah, the dealers are really gouging

[EagleAutosports]

Originally Posted by sqidd

This is for the moderators. I have a bad habit of debating things with people and sometimes the other party gets angry. I just like a good debate. I will tone down my questionable attacks for the strip. If you ever think I am out in left field please feel free to censor me and then shoot me a PM saying I was a bad boy

There's nothing wrong with a great debate, in fact it's encouraged. That's what makes things better, both product and personal relations. I agree with what you said, in fact.

So all is cool with me, game on.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by nite

You have a Shelby... just get a Paxton and call it a day!

Not happenin Nite. If I'm going to do it then I'd get the best. I can understand a $300-400 increase but a freggin grand?? There's just not any justification for that kind of increase.

[GoStang]

The economy will recover. The true losers are the ones that jump on the struggles and adversity of the people. I admire those who go through the hard times with us and not take advantage. Like (TheKurgan) said "There is nothing that Whipple or the Whipple suppliers can do to justify the $1000.00 increase" I wouldn't care if it was a 100 hp gain. Kinda like the big oil companies making $35 billinon in profits and trying to say " Hey we aren't really making any money". I love my Mustang, I wouldn't give it up for nothing. So, weather it be the makers of the Whipple or the Suppliers, somebody is going to pocket alot of money. The mark-up on all the upgrade products is either out in plain sight or hidden, but it's there.