Please use Spell check and Grammar Check when posting.
Twister why'd you lock that? It looked like freedom of speech at work not a pissing match, maybe you didnt like the way certain views were expressed but I certainly didnt see anything that would warrant a lock out.
Re: Please use Spell check and Grammar Check when posting.
Quote:
Originally posted by STONECOLD Twister why'd you lock that? It looked like freedom of speech at work not a pissing match, maybe you didnt like the way certain views were expressed but I certainly didnt see anything that would warrant a lock out.
I think it was because the thread was beginning to degradate into what would have ended up being little more than a pissing contest.
The thread started out light hearted and well intended, but it was becoming something a bit more than that.
I think the initial reason for the thread was to help point out some wring styles that make is hard for the other readers to either simply read, or comprehend the author’s thoughts. Sure we all make mistakes, and we can play fast and loose with style on internet forums….. but there are some basics folks should at least TRY to follow. And those were pointed out in the beginning part of that thread.
As for “Freedom of Speech”…. I love that one. No offense, but this is not a freedom of speech issue since that Right does not extend into private realms. Freedom of Speech deals with how the Government can not punish people for speaking out against it. And actually there is not as much freedom in that as most think there is…… and that is not really a bad thing. You can end up in jail for openly stating you are going to kill someone, or do other crimes, etc.
Freedom of Speech can be a good thing, but it must really be tempered with wisdom and restraint. And unfortunately too many just grab a microphone and spout off… because they CAN. And to me this is simply not a good enough reason.
Sorry…. got off on a tangent there…………………. need more coffee!
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
The last couple of posts did turn it into a pissing contest. There was name calling and a whole lot of censored words. Nobody was contributing any new points, so the thread was closed.
Well everyone has their views, if someone does not normally want to properly punctuate, capitalize, etc. then they aren't so telling them to is just silly. =) Like tellin drunk drivers not to drink and drive...not gonna happen..........
__________________
-Steve Clark
Real Eyes Realise Real Lies
Legends never die.. R.I.P. John E. Lingenfelter ~1945-2003
As far as freedom of speech I simply meant that peope were exercising their right to use it, and voice their opinions. I dont agree with shartley's views on it but thats a whole other discussion.
I didnt see any name calling or anything of that nature in it but im assuming thats because it was edited out as Eye pointed out. I just think that before anything gets locked out maybe the moderator should give some type of warning before doing so, possibly giving people the oppurtunity to clean up their own answers and keep it clean.
Originally posted by STONECOLD As far as freedom of speech I simply meant that peope were exercising their right to use it, and voice their opinions. I dont agree with shartley's views on it but thats a whole other discussion.
I didnt see any name calling or anything of that nature in it but im assuming thats because it was edited out as Eye pointed out. I just think that before anything gets locked out maybe the moderator should give some type of warning before doing so, possibly giving people the oppurtunity to clean up their own answers and keep it clean.
Okay, let me first start by saying what I posted about Freedom of Speech is not “my views” on the matter. It is FACT.
And it is also a fact that there is no such thing as Freedom of Speech on a privately owned forum. Even if the owners of that forum allow people to post anything they wanted, their ISP most likely has Terms Of Service which does not allow certain uses of the servers which includes various forms of speech… and then there are other legal issues as well which go higher than even the ISPs.
And the Constitution of the United States does not give Americans the RIGHT to say anything they want, any place they want, etc. It is not an “agree or disagree” matter, it is simply a matter of what “speech” is protected by the Constitution and what is not. There is clearly a large amount of people who have a huge misconception of what “Freedom of Speech” really means.
Please do not think I am upset about this, because I am not. I am also not trying to flame you in any way either. I just want you to know that I am not posting my “views”, but am posting the law. If you doubt what I am telling you, please feel free to contact a Civil Rights Attorney. As a former Federal Law Enforcement Officer, I am well aware of the Constitution and people’s Civil Rights…. which includes the Freedom of Speech.
Added:
Well, I guess I did post SOME of my opinions in my other post (I went back and read it). I am a big believer in “just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD”…. And that includes issues of FOS as well. For example I have watched the protests in Washington (about various issues) and most often what starts out as a well intended argument gets lost in loads of hate and rhetoric.
Sure, they just exercised their FOS, but in not keeping temperance in their speeches they end up turning off more than they turned on. Sure the crowd gets excited, but they are there to BE excited. It is preaching to the choir… if you can’t excite your own congregation who feel the same way YOU do, there is a problem. But the real goal for FOS should be to expand your congregation…. should it not?
So, I will maintain that FOS is a great thing….. but it is a two edged sword. Be careful where and how hard you swing it.
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
Im not upset shartley, this is a disccussion and I welcome others opinions, views, possible knowledge of the law, I dont claim to know everything and Like to learn new things.
The constitution is not set in stone, its interprited by judges, laywers and the like and till this day continues to be challenged and reviewd.
And laws are different from state to state and even same laws in different states can and are interprited differently. While I can certainly respect that you were a Federal Law Enforcement Officer (what branch by the way?) Im going to need a little more info than that to accept what you are saying as fact. Can you give me a link to back up your statements?
Originally posted by EyeOfTheStorm How did a spelling and grammer post become political? This is what caused the last post to be closed....it became too heated and too far off topic!
Lol only if you knew HOW many threads you get off topic on between you and Twister's lives....such as that Intro thread that became a discussion about you two =)
__________________
-Steve Clark
Real Eyes Realise Real Lies
Legends never die.. R.I.P. John E. Lingenfelter ~1945-2003
Originally posted by VenemoussC Lol only if you knew HOW many threads you get off topic on between you and Twister's lives....such as that Intro thread that became a discussion about you two =)
True, but a lot of threads have been closed due to our hijacking. It's not like anybody's playing favorites.
Originally posted by STONECOLD Im not upset shartley, this is a disccussion and I welcome others opinions, views, possible knowledge of the law, I dont claim to know everything and Like to learn new things.
The constitution is not set in stone, its interprited by judges, laywers and the like and till this day continues to be challenged and reviewd.
And laws are different from state to state and even same laws in different states can and are interprited differently. While I can certainly respect that you were a Federal Law Enforcement Officer (what branch by the way?) Im going to need a little more info than that to accept what you are saying as fact. Can you give me a link to back up your statements?
What you say about being challenged is very true… but what I posted has neither been challenged, nor could be in association with Internet forums and private property/resources.
I also was not commenting on State Laws. And the reason is that although servers are located in a specific state, they allow traffic from all states and in fact the entire world. Normally State laws come into play first if applicable, but generally things are ultimately controlled by Federal laws. The same as how criminal charges most often instantly change to Federal Charges once State lines are crossed. There are a myriad of jurisdictional dances that go on, and it can become quite a quagmire depending on the situation.
And there are countless others.. but you will get the idea. The First Amendment protects the citizens from the Government doing something, from the Government enacting laws to prohibit a person from doing something… not another person determining what can or can not be said on their own site, forum, property, etc. The First Amendment does not take away the right of an individual or business from censoring speech, if this was the case we would not have BLEEPED out words on TV or on the radio. We would not have banned or censored materials at all. But we DO.
And that is because the First Amendment only protects us from a tyrannical Government that would enact laws that would make dissent or criticism a crime, or would silence a minority or their views. But again, this does not restrict private persons, businesses, etc. from enacting censorship guidelines for themselves.
However, the FOS does not (as stated before) allow folks to say anything they want in spite of what the First Amendment says at face value. Communicating a threat for example is a crime (and there are other examples, but I think you get my meaning). And “speech” has often been transferred by many to “form of expression”… such as burning the flag, streaking, and various other things that are not really “speech” but lawyers have gotten judges to see as a form of speech from time to time. I don’t agree with these “expressions” as being what the Founding Fathers intended “speech” to mean, but that is why they are constantly being argued over in our courts.
But like I said, the main hinging points are “government” and “laws”…. Both of which have nothing to do with internet forums owned by private companies or individuals. Heck, even if the government ran an internet forum they too could censor anything they wanted. Why? Because censorship is not against the First Amendment as it pertains to that situation… only if a law was causing that censorship, then it would be. It is a bit tricky at times just how much protection the First Amendment gives folks, and like I said, if anyone really has any doubts as to whether their Civil Rights as outlined by the Constitution have been violated, they should contact a Civil Rights Attorney.
In this case though (on this forum and others) you can rest assured that closing a thread, deleting a post or thread, censoring verbiage, or any combination of those, is not infringing on anyone’s Right to Free Speech.
__________________
- Sam
The shackles of opression and dependence are most easily slipped on with a smile and kind words of hope.
Originally posted by STONECOLD
I just think that before anything gets locked out maybe the moderator should give some type of warning before doing so, possibly giving people the oppurtunity to clean up their own answers and keep it clean.
By the time it gets to that point, it is usually too late to do this.The system only gives you 60 minutes to edit your own posts.
Please use Spell check and Grammar Check when posting. 
