well you guys talk like you know everytihng about cars just bc you might be the "hot shots" around in the v6 tech section and when someone who actually does know what they are talking about calls you out, you have nothing to say other then to call names...
once again, i tried helping you guys, but you refused to listen. goodbye and have a great day
NOONE called names.. ur just stirring the pot trying to draw a reaction.. im trying to understand exactly what putting gears in your rear end does to top speed.. i have heard many times before what it is supposed to do and i was open to reevaluating my opinion.. however you provided no proof to suggest my concept was incorrect.. you tell me i know nothing about cars.. which is false.. ive learned quite a bit about V6's since joining these forums.. you claim to have superior knowledge about cars but fail to demonstrate it so forgive me for not believing you...
I have 4.10s in my car with a traction lock and i can get up to 120 easly and it still has more. I was at about 4500 rpms doing 120 and i got there pretty quick.
OK - that backs up my initial calculation (115 mph at 4500 rpm)... I used my tranny's redline since the OP didn't offer one up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 232-K7
yes, splitports redline higher than singleports.
single port is ~4,500
splitport is ~5,300
Now that I know that, using the same assumptions as before, max speed should be just over 135mph.
__________________
YELLOW JACKET = 1998 Chrome Yellow V6
POWER: BBK CAI, TB, UDPs; Bosch Platinum +4 plugs
BEAUTY: black projector headlights, taillights, and mesh grille; 5% tint; shorty antenna; interior billet
ROLLERS: XXR 006 black spoke with blue lip; 18x8.5 & 9.5; BFG KDW/2 245/40R18 & 275/35R18
DRIVER: Jonathan, 6'2, 190 lbs
RIDER: my wife, 5'4 brunette hottie and my 1st baby on the way...
well you guys talk like you know everytihng about cars just bc you might be the "hot shots" around in the v6 tech section and when someone who actually does know what they are talking about calls you out, you have nothing to say other then to call names...
once again, i tried helping you guys, but you refused to listen. goodbye and have a great day
I will engage in a polite discussion if you wish... Right now I have to print out the whole conversation so that I can try to understand everyone! I think I understand what you are trying to say... but I want to be sure. But don't be blastin other people (and BTW, you misquoted me...)
To be continued...
__________________
YELLOW JACKET = 1998 Chrome Yellow V6
POWER: BBK CAI, TB, UDPs; Bosch Platinum +4 plugs
BEAUTY: black projector headlights, taillights, and mesh grille; 5% tint; shorty antenna; interior billet
ROLLERS: XXR 006 black spoke with blue lip; 18x8.5 & 9.5; BFG KDW/2 245/40R18 & 275/35R18
DRIVER: Jonathan, 6'2, 190 lbs
RIDER: my wife, 5'4 brunette hottie and my 1st baby on the way...
using the same assumptions as before, max speed should be just over 135mph.
(assuming you are stating steeler's theory/calculations),
that is the theretical top speed.
meaning, that is the top speed that the gears will allow. sure, 2.73's might technically allow you to get to ~160mph, that doesnt mean your engine can get you there...
show me a stock 3.8 that can redline 5th gear with it's 3.27's. i don't even think a stock 3.8 can redline 5th with 3.73's. either way, if you take 2 identical stock 3.8's, put 3.73's in one and 2.73's in another, they will still both top out at the same speed. however, the 3.73 geared stang will get there quicker.
bottom line, gears do not add horsepower, they increase torque. torque is irrelevant to topspeed.
(assuming you are stating steeler's theory/calculations),
that is the theretical top speed.
meaning, that is the top speed that the gears will allow. sure, 2.73's might technically allow you to get to ~160mph, that doesnt mean your engine can get you there...
show me a stock 3.8 that can redline 5th gear with it's 3.27's. i don't even think a stock 3.8 can redline 5th with 3.73's. either way, if you take 2 identical stock 3.8's, put 3.73's in one and 2.73's in another, they will still both top out at the same speed. however, the 3.73 geared stang will get there quicker.
bottom line, gears do not add horsepower, they increase torque. torque is irrelevant to topspeed.
you are soo lost its not even funny
i listed the top possible speeds with those gears, i never said you could reach that speed, please read my post carefully then you will understand...
the point was, that you dont need all that extra available top speed if you dont have the POWER to get there in the first place.
torque will get you a higher top speed, if you cannot understand this then you are beyond helping...
gears provide more torque mulitplication which in return will let you reach a higher speeds...its been proven no arguement here...
how can you say i didnt list any facts?
please READ what i said, its not my fault you cant understand a VERY simple math problem...
I think this is a HUGE misunderstanding... I think you're both arguing the same point but using a different tone in your voices...
All "steelers1377" is saying... is that the higher the gear the higher the THEORETICAL top speed... IF you have the power to get you there...
This same argument was made when someone arguing the "other point" said something to the effect of: you either run out of gear or power...
it seems to me like Steelers is saying if you have bigger gears... it's the POWER you'll run out of...
Torque doesn't add to the Topspeed... but it IS relevant... if you can't put the power to the ground, you can't get there... even if theoretically you can... you need to torque to actually do it...
I'm not picking sides... just putting both sides together...
3.8 has hit on it a little here... I think u are both arguing fron opposite angles, but the same idea. there are two limits to the top speed of a car: power & gears. the power of the engine can only hurtle a 3500 lb car so fast down the road - but its probably higher than u think. this i believe is stellers point.
however, the engine only goes so fast before it can blow apart: redline. so, gears are used to turn down this speed to a more reasonable tire rotation speed - and that is all they do. they dont increase hp or torque. this top speed limit is purely a function of the cars redline, top gear ratio, and final drive gear - which is what i calculated earlier. this is the limit that i think 232 was talkiing about.
tomorow i will discuss what gears actually do, since i'm tired and typing on my phone... =p dont kill each other in the meantime =/
First of all, there's been a lot of back and forth (myself included)... so let's try to clear the air and start from the beginning. Also, forget what I said about "who said what", cuz I think I even got that wrong! (this thread has been very confusing! ) Honestly, reading back thru - you guys are saying the same thing!!! So anyways...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 232-K7
(assuming you are stating steeler's theory/calculations),
that is the theretical top speed.
meaning, that is the top speed that the gears will allow. sure, 2.73's might technically allow you to get to ~160mph, that doesnt mean your engine can get you there...
show me a stock 3.8 that can redline 5th gear with it's 3.27's. i don't even think a stock 3.8 can redline 5th with 3.73's. either way, if you take 2 identical stock 3.8's, put 3.73's in one and 2.73's in another, they will still both top out at the same speed. however, the 3.73 geared stang will get there quicker.
bottom line, gears do not add horsepower, they increase torque. torque is irrelevant to topspeed.
I looked through all of this, and this is probably the best summary (in addition to what I stated in the previous post). You either run out of gears or power. However, gears don't increase your engine's output torque (or hp, since they are related)... let me try to explain.
Steeler has been calling it "torque multiplication" and 233-K7 is saying "increased torque", and yet others say your "moving the power band" or "getting into the power more", etc... but they are all kinda misleading labels. Power = torque * rotational speed. Since we are using the same engine in all of this, power remains constant throughout - the engine still has to be able to push the car down the road. And it has a limit - the real top speed of that engine: no matter what gears, you can't increase top speed.
Since the engine operates thru the same rpm level, it also will have the same torque at its output. But this is where things get tricky... At low speeds (1st gear), more torque (at the wheel) is needed to start the car and lower rotational speed of the tire: so your lowest gear has the largest ratio (> 2.5). What this does is take the engine (high speed, medium torque) and change it to a low rotational speed at the tire, and therefore higher torque at the tire. Then, at high speeds (top gear), more rotation of the tire is needed and torque is less important. So the last gear has a low ratio (< 1), so the engine (spinning at the same speed and torque as in 1st gear) change to high speed, low torque at the wheel.
Now, throw into this mess the final drive gear. It multiplies by the tranny gear ratio to create a new ratio - but things still work the same way. However, when you increase this gear (2.73-4.10), you indeed increase the multiplication factor. In 1st gear, this will give you more torque (at the wheel) and lower wheel speed -- this where the phrases torque multiplication and increased torque come from. What this means in real life, is that each engine rpm now equates to a new (lower) wheel speed or mph. So in top gear, you lose out on your (theoretical) top speed of the wheel -- this is the gear limit people have been talking about. (The stock gear ratio limit is probably much higher than the engine's capable top speed, which Steeler hinted at.)
Now, the real advantage of a higher final drive gear ratio has to do more with rpm loss between gears and trying to keep the engine in it's powerband (certain rpm range) so it can accelerate the fastest. Check out this article on wikipedia - it explains all this crap pretty good. Gear ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
however, the engine only goes so fast before it can blow apart: redline. so, gears are used to turn down this speed to a more reasonable tire rotation speed - and that is all they do. they dont increase hp or torque. this top speed limit is purely a function of the cars redline, top gear ratio, and final drive gear - which is what i calculated earlier. this is the limit that i think 232 was talkiing about.
i think this makes sense to me.. in my thought processes i was taking 2 identical cars identical transmissions different rear end gears and driving them both at redline whatever that may be.. my thought was if you could get them both to the same rpm.. the 4.10 geared one would be moving slower than the stock geared one just because of the wheel speed difference..
now that wasnt exactly taking into account the idea that either car may not even be able to make it to redline for lack of power.. but i think my idea still holds water at basically any rpm whether its 1500 rpm in first gear or 3500 rpm in 5th gear the wheels spin slower on the 4.10..
i may have been ignoring torque completely in that scenario.. you may have more torque to the wheels but im not sure that you could get to too much of a higher speed... then again power doesnt change no matter how you gear it and peak power can only produce one maximum velocity.. so that would lead me to believe that gearing it would provide the same top speed if not less... does that sound right?
...now that wasnt exactly taking into account the idea that either car may not even be able to make it to redline for lack of power.. but i think my idea still holds water at basically any rpm whether its 1500 rpm in first gear or 3500 rpm in 5th gear the wheels spin slower on the 4.10.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstang690
i may have been ignoring torque completely in that scenario.. you may have more torque to the wheels but im not sure that you could get to too much of a higher speed... then again power doesnt change no matter how you gear it and peak power can only produce one maximum velocity.. so that would lead me to believe that gearing it would provide the same top speed if not less... does that sound right?
Again correct - peak power can only produce a maximum speed. All the gears can do is reach beyond it (as Steeler pointed out: 2.73s can 170mph!), in which case you are "wasting" rpm, or limit below it (such as 3.73s or 4.10s would) - but then the trade off is higher torque at the wheels and better acceleration.
To really get a good understanding check out the wikipedia article (it explains it pretty well), and then mess around with the "PerfectShifting" link at the bottom of the webpage. It will give you a better understanding of "rpm loss" between gear shifts and trying to keep your engine within the power band.
and my 1st baby on the way... 
I think I understand what you are trying to say... but I want to be sure. But don't be blastin other people (and BTW, you misquoted me...) 
: grinroll:
:c hillpill:
