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Old 09-24-2009   #1 (permalink)
ChuckV10 is offline Rookie

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Question 2002 Mustang 3.8L Appears Seized - is this common?

I have a 2002 3.8 coupe with just over 80,000 miles.

It appears that the engine is seized.

Is this common? What is a typical cause? Are there other things that could make it not turn over?

The story and details:
Driving home from work the idle dipped a bit low, I turned off the A/C and opened the windows.

About a mile later at the next stop light, the idle dipped even lower and the engine died.

No warning lights prior to stopping, but I didn't notice if the gauges were out of range.

I hit the starter and the engine would not turn over.

Tried jumping to make sure it wasn't charging system or battery related with no luck.

Called for help and towed it home.

Oil looked normal with no foam.

Coolant looked normal with no foam.

Took off the front belt and tried to turn it over with a wrench on the crank and it wouldn't budge.

Changed the camshaft synchronizer and sensor a couple of months ago and it was easy to turn the engine over.

Am I sunk or is there hope?

Thanks

-Chuck
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Old 09-24-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Default

pull all the spark plugs out, and then try to turn the engine over by hand.

if a head gasket blew, and then the car sat for a while, coolant will seep into the combustion chamber and hydrolock the engine.

if the engine will turn by hand once the plugs are out, go ahead and turn the key and let the engine crank a few times to purge the cylinders. then quickly reinstall the spark plugs and start the engine. as soon as you get the engine running, take off the radiator cap, and give the engine a couple good revs. if coolant blows all over the place, then you have a blown head gasket.

also, if while the engine is idling, coolant bubbles out of the open radiator cap and smells like gasoline, that also indicates a blown head gasket.
of course, you can always just do a compression test.
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Old 09-24-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Default Thanks...

Thanks for the reply...

Headed to the garage to try that....
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Old 09-24-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Default Still can't budge it....

OK.

I took out all of the plugs and still cannot budge it either direction.

None of the plugs smelled funny and all looked normal.

What next?
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Old 09-24-2009   #5 (permalink)
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damn, that is wierd...

i've never heard of an engine just locking up out of nowhere.

no CEL, not even a pending one?
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Old 09-25-2009   #6 (permalink)
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When you changed the crank angle sensor were you VERY careful to fully engage the oil pump shaft on to the oil pump?

It sounds seized.

Do this, it works...despite what you might think. I had a chevy van lose all the oil all over the street and by the time i knew about it the engine siezed up. I did this, it works.

Drain all the oil out, replace the drain plug, fill the crankcase with diesel fuel, about 3 gal should be plenty. Take the plugs out. Let it sit for about a week. Try to slowly crank it with a wrench. If it turns over, drain the diesel and fill the crankcase with the requisite amount of "cheapest oil you can buy" and then try to crank it with the starter. If it cranks with the starter, crank it for about 15s then wait about 30s then crank it again for about 15s. Do this a few times. Replace the plugs (new ones) and try to start it. DO NOT DRIVE IT.

If it runs, let it idle to operating temp. If it is idling smoothly, drain and replace the oil with what you normally use.

This worked for me.

-Zach
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Old 09-25-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Take the belt off first, then try turning the motor over with the plugs out......
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Old 09-26-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Default Belt off, plugs out, still cannot turn it...

The main drive belt for the water pump, alternator, etc. is off.

I pulled all of the plugs.

Still cannot budge it....
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Old 09-26-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Default Transmission related?

Every once in a while the idle would dip when I came to a complete stop, almost like the transmission not releasing the engine.

Is it possible that this could be transmission related?

Thanks

-Chuck
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Old 09-26-2009   #10 (permalink)
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It could be tranny related. Maybe the torque convertor locked up, but it sounds like your oilpump went. You have to either pull the tranny or the motor to investigate. If your top end is fine, then it's time for a rebuild, maybe a performance motor or just bottom end.
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Old 09-26-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Default Oil pump...

Thanks for the reply...

Shouldn't I have seen a oil pressure light if the oil pump went?
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Old 09-26-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Yup. Your gauge would have dropped to the left.

My car did that a few times about 100,000mi ago. I would be driving it then the engine would stumble and drag me to a stop. I had to let it sit for a minute then it would start up and run fine again. It seemed to only happen if I'd been driving with cruise control on for a long time.

I changed the battery and the problem stopped. It never did sieze on me though. And, I never really did find out exactly what the problem was.

If your engine hydrolocked while it was running you would have come to an instant stop, probably with engine parts all over you, the street, the cars around you, and any unfortunate bystanders.

Man...I almost want to drive to wherever you are just to fart around with your car. I'm really curious.

You might have stuck injectors. If you did, your mixture would suddenly go very rich and the engine would probably stumble and die and the slow trickle of gas in to any open cylinder may be enough to hydrolock the engine and keep you and that starter from turning it over. It'd be easy to figure out, just pop out the plugs. If gas trickles out or it even smells strongly of gas, that might be it.

Crazy problem...wish I had a solution for you.

-Zach
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Old 09-26-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckV10 View Post
OK.

I took out all of the plugs and still cannot budge it either direction.

None of the plugs smelled funny and all looked normal.

What next?

Oops, guess you tried that...(8 ball says) All signs point to the oil pump.
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Old 09-26-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Default Location - Near Toledo

I am 15 minutes east of Toledo Ohio.

:-)

Working on it today and decided to start with the timing chain.

Once I have that off I can see if it is top or bottom.

One great thing about working on this car is the huge space in front of the engine....

:-)
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Old 09-26-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Default Update....

The gear on camshaft sensor that meshes with the camshaft was sheared off.

Got the timing chain off.

I can turn the camshaft.

I cannot turn the crank.

My Guesses:
  • Oil pump seized
  • Crank needs to come out
What are the chances that:
  • Upper half is OK?
  • Pistons are OK?
Thanks

-Chuck
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