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1979-2004 V6 Mustang Tech Discussions

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Unread 03-25-2011   #1 (permalink)
metalman302 is offline MACH I Member

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Default V6 to V8 swap FAQ- Newbies Read Here First!

Ok, so you're wondering about a V6 swap in your V6 mustang? Read this FAQ first. Then SEARCH this forum and Google. If you still have SPECIFIC questions, post them up here.

1. Can it be done? - YES, but it's a LOT of work. I've only ever seen a few swaps completed vs a hundred times I've seen it asked about. It's not something you will be able to do in your driveway in one weekend. It's not something for a teenager to do by themselves on their first car... unless you're some sort of mechanic prodigy LOL.

2. How much will it cost? - Anywhere from free, to $1000 or more. Free being possible if you buy a totalled car and part out what you don't need. This will depend on how much you pay for the car itself, and what you can sell on it. If you decide to buy everything separately; the engine may not cost much, but all the little odds and ends will quickly add up to more than your original estimate. A "donor car" is by far the best way to go. That way you can have both cars next to each other, and just take everything out of one car and put it into the other.

3. Can I put XXXX engine in XXXX year car? - You *can* do any swap, but it will make everything a lot easier to stick with a setup that was offered as factory for your year. This way everything will be plug and play, completely factory, no fabrication or custom re-wiring necessary. Custom wiring can quickly turn into a nightmare. The 5.0 and 4.6 K-members are different not a perfect fit if you were to try to swap. Brake pedals differ between 5.0 and 4.6. Fuel systems changed on various years.

4. But I can get a running XXXX engine for only $100 bucks. Can I still put it in XXXX year even though that engine was never offered as factory for my year? - You're on your own buddy!

5. Can I swap from auto to 5 speed at the same time as the engine swap? - That would be the BEST time! You will already be 2/3 of the way there. Basically, the only extra work is to swap pedals and swap shifter. Use search for the specifics. It's been covered many times in the V6 and the V8 forums.

5. What parts will I need to swap? - The short answer is: The engine and related components, the exhaust, the computer and all engine wiring. If going to 4.6 you will also have to swap transmissions, and brake boosters. K members are the same for GT and V6. 94 95 3.8s had motor mounts to fit the 5.0 crossmember. In 96-04 the 3.8s got different mounts to fit the 4.6 crossmember.

6. I can't get a donor car. What parts will I need to get separate?


ALL 94-04

Rear end: Optional. Some V8 guys report beating on the 7.5 rear for years, while some V6 people report breaking them. A 94-98 GT rear will be a direct swap for 94-98 cars. A 94-98 car can also use a foxbody 5.0 8.8 and it will bolt right up. All the axles and brakes and everything from the 94-98 V6 7.5 rear will swap right over to the Fox 8.8. 99-04 cars should use a 99-04 rear because they had wider axles and wider housing than 94-98.

94 & 95 3.8 to 5.0 - All parts listed are 5.0 specific unless noted.

These cars have the least to swap

Complete engine - pan to throttle body
Throttle cable
Air intake
MAF is the same and can be reused
Engine accessories w all brackets, lines, wiring, hoses (accessories themselves should be the same for 3.8 & 5.0)
Motor mounts
Complete exhaust
Radiator & hoses
Fan
Overflow should be the same
EEC with harness
All engine and trans wiring harnesses
Dash harness (?)
Speedo cluster
CCRM (constant control relay module)

Transmission, driveshaft, and starter from the 3.8 can be reused on the 5.0.
Auto trans will need 5.0 flexplate from 87-95
T-5 trans will need 5.0 flywheel and clutch from 87-95
T-5 will need to swap to a 94 95 5.0 bellhousing. The 3.8 and 5.0 bells have the starter in different positions to accomodate the different diameter flywheels. Fox bellhousing will not work because the 94+ T-5's input shaft is longer than fox.

96-98 or 99-04 3.8 to 4.6L - All parts listed are 4.6 specific unless noted. Use parts from the sub group your car is in; 96-98 or 99-04

Complete engine - pan to throttle body
Throttle cable
Air intake
MAF
Engine accessories w all brackets, lines, wiring, hoses
Motor mounts
Complete exhaust
Radiator & hoses
Fan
Overflow
EEC with harness
All engine wiring harnesses
Dash harness (?)
Speedo cluster
CCRM (constant control relay module)
Hydroboost brake booster with all lines - the vacuum booster is too big and will not clear the 4.6

Transmisson - You need a 4.6 transmission. They had 4.6 specific bellhousings built into the case..... even on the manual transmissions.
Flywheel and clutch for T-45 and 3650 manuals
Flexplate for 4.6 auto trans 4R70W
Driveshaft - 4.6 has a specific yoke that is not the same as any 3.8 yokes. Tubes are the same length, in case you want to swap only the yoke.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure there are many other small details that will come up for anyone doing this swap. Any corrections or helpful info, feel free to post it up!
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Unread 03-25-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Great write up. Thanks for taking the time to do this and answering all my stupid questions that I bug you about. lol
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Unread 03-25-2011   #3 (permalink)
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excellent post.. lets get this stickied so all the new guys can see before asking
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Windstar Upper Intake with cool-air intake, MAC LT headers, BBK O/R H-pipe, and flow 40s, SCT tuner, FRPP Alum. D/S, 3.73 gears, Auburn HP limited slip, and Team Z LCAs, Eibach sway bars.
Best 1/4 time: 15.036 @90.92mph, 2.148 60'
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Unread 03-26-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Great write up. I have questioned myself on this topic many times. +1
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Unread 03-27-2011   #5 (permalink)
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First off, great writeup. I understand why you did it Metalman302, but I hope you realize it is an uphill battle that cannot be won. 99% of the people that ask this question never read the stickies or search first.

What I want to add is that people need to be honest with themselves first. If you need to ask how to do this, you're not capable of doing it. You almost certainly don't have the tools required and the chances of having the money as well is just as low. You bought a V6 because it was what you could afford but now you can magically afford $5K to install a V8/turbo/supercharger??? Come on, really..........

I largely avoid posting in the V8/turbo/surpercharger threads because of that fact. Save your money and sell your V6 and buy a V8 unless you have the money, time, experience and capability to perform major upgrades. It would save this board alot of bandwidth if these types of questions caused the system to block the question from being posted in the first place.....
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Unread 03-27-2011   #6 (permalink)
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I'm going to save this thread to my favorites and post a link to it in those threads.
Saves me a lot of time typing this *** out 20 times a week.

Thanks Metalman
 
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Unread 03-27-2011   #7 (permalink)
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thank you very much Judi!
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2003 3.8L V6 4R70W
Windstar Upper Intake with cool-air intake, MAC LT headers, BBK O/R H-pipe, and flow 40s, SCT tuner, FRPP Alum. D/S, 3.73 gears, Auburn HP limited slip, and Team Z LCAs, Eibach sway bars.
Best 1/4 time: 15.036 @90.92mph, 2.148 60'
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Unread 03-28-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
First off, great writeup. I understand why you did it Metalman302, but I hope you realize it is an uphill battle that cannot be won. 99% of the people that ask this question never read the stickies or search first.

What I want to add is that people need to be honest with themselves first. If you need to ask how to do this, you're not capable of doing it. You almost certainly don't have the tools required and the chances of having the money as well is just as low. You bought a V6 because it was what you could afford but now you can magically afford $5K to install a V8/turbo/supercharger??? Come on, really..........

I largely avoid posting in the V8/turbo/surpercharger threads because of that fact. Save your money and sell your V6 and buy a V8 unless you have the money, time, experience and capability to perform major upgrades. It would save this board alot of bandwidth if these types of questions caused the system to block the question from being posted in the first place.....
I happen to be one person who had rather ask a specific question and be 120% sure of what I am getting myself into. I asked this question, however, I did research, I do have the tools, I can make time and money. It is more of a learning thing for some, including myself. I've learned a ton from metalman , and sometimes I do know the answer but I ask again just to be sure. I'm sure he will tell you I text him probably six or seven times a day about random questions. I understand what you mean about people asking questions about things they do not fully understand. as a computer technician I get SICK of hearing "How do I remove a virus?" or "How can I make my computer faster?", depending on if they ask me directly or post on a forum such as this I either grit my teeth and explain it for the 120000000 time or simply laugh and keep scrolling through the forums. As for your percentage, its acually more like 98.7%


^^ Just my morning two cents
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Unread 04-07-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
the chances of having the money as well is just as low. You bought a V6 because it was what you could afford but now you can magically afford $5K to install a V8/turbo/supercharger??? Come on, really..........
Your post was pretty dead on, til this part. It's pretty ignorant and shortsighted.

My 04 3.8 to 4.6 dohc swap is going to be nearly free, with a little possibility of making a little money on it because I lucked into alot of things. Now, obviously not everyone will be able to do that and it could cost alot of money. But, even then, in the 7 years i've owned the car, i've graduated college and gotten a good salary job in Info Security, so I could afford it regardless now, even though i couldn't then. I bought the v6 because it's what I could afford back then. I refuse to just buy a v8 car. The project is fun, working with buddies is fun, and I'll be able to take more pride in it.


And to Metalman, good post. A couple things though, the dash harness for the 6 works just fine with GT electronics. You wouldn't need to change that. Also, in order to use the hydroboost, you will need to switch to the pedal tree from a hydroboost car. That may be dependent on what years you are using, but when installing HB from a 99-04 GT into my 04, they needed to be changed, or at very least, modified by cutting the rods off the two boosters and welding the curved rod from the v6 booster to the HB.
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Unread 04-07-2011   #10 (permalink)
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Hey bro, I was hoping you'd come over here. I wanted to point to a real world example of a swap but didn't think I should link to another forum a sticky lol.

I would have thought that the dash harnesses would be the same, but someone on another forum said that they needed to swap theirs... pretty sure it was 01-04 they claimed. That's why I put a question mark. Your car is not running and verified 100% proper function yet either though....

With what you showed me and with what boosters I have looked up, you are correct, the V6 and V8 boosters are for sure different for 99-04. However, I am 99% sure the pedals for 96-98 V6 vs GT are the same. Once I can confirm 100% I will see about getting it edited in the OP. If you look up a V6 reman booster, it shows 94 95 GT & V6, and 99-04 V6 all being the same part # with a curved rod. 96-98 V6 booster however is a different part with a straight rod identical to a HB. I have like 4 different pedal/booster setups around here (lol) I will verify it myself and update.
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Unread 04-07-2011   #11 (permalink)
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haha. Right on. I joined this site back in 04 and it said last time i visited was in 05.

While looking stuff up, alot of links were leading here, then I just saw this thread.

You're right it isn't verified by me yet, but everything did plug in nicely to the new harnesses. And everything I read says it will work correctly. Hope to find out for sure soon. I would hate to have to take the dash out again. I'm pretty sure it's just a generic harness. Otherwise, with how Ford is, I don't think they would have wired in the foglight and t/c switches to a car where it's not an option.
It's crazy to me that Ford would change the rods like that. It sucks because I have the Mach 1 pedals (part of pony package) in the car, but had to change pedal trees. I can't figure out how to safely remove the pads from the pedals to switch. Now my gas pedal and foot rest(?) are mach 1 style and clutch and brake are stock rubber.
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Unread 04-07-2011   #12 (permalink)
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Technically, maybe the vacuum booster rod needed more travel than HB? Lower on the pedal arm would make for a longer swing radius and more travel.

Are the Mach covers the same as the Bullitt? The Bullitts are a tight fit but just slip on.
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Unread 04-07-2011   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah, that's understandable.

Actually, the covers do look the same. It just seems the part of it that wraps around the pedal it way too tight to get it off without damaging it. I'll take a closer look. That WindCity guy is supposed to be coming to my place this weekend to pick up that trans stuff and pedal tree, so I need to check soon.
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Unread 04-07-2011   #14 (permalink)
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I read of guys soaking them in boiling water to soften the rubber before installing, so maybe you can do the same to remove them.
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Unread 04-08-2011   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman302 View Post
I read of guys soaking them in boiling water to soften the rubber before installing, so maybe you can do the same to remove them.
+1
Gentle heat will help the rubber expand and make more pliable to remove.
 
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