Upgrading intake path - Page 4 - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #46 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019 Thread Starter
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I noticed in the video of leno’s Garage, the engineer specifically stated that the intake for the “boss 302” was extensively tested. When he said that there was no gain from aftermarket was he strictly speaking the boss 302? .
It's the law of physics.....an engines air intake is directly related to how much air it can physically suck into each cylinder....nothing more, nothing less. The only thing that changes the rules is if you significantly increase the RPM or install a blower/supercharger...… because you are now force feeding the air above atmospheric pressure
I get what your saying. There’s only so much air that will drawn as it’s being sucked by the pistons movement. Yes the only way to increase this is by increasing rpm, cylinder bore, or duration and lift on the cam. But we can make it easier for the air to get to the chamber with these intakes by smoothing our flow, and less restriction on the filter, and a bigger maf housing. These things create like a bottle neck in the intakes path. In my opinion that’s where the gains are.

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post #47 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019 Thread Starter
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I’m very curious about this. Did you dyno it with a baseline run?
I have a Department of Boost kit on my car (supercharger), and I am using the factory 2011 GT500 degas bottle, which mounts in the location of the power steering reservoir on an 05-09 Mustang GT. So no N/A dyno runs comparing the 2010 CAI to 05-09. I just know that a few road racers have done it, and it is my tuner's recommended solution (Lito), who also road courses his car, which is an 05-09 with a 5.0 Coyote rotating assembly in a 3v (custom work there and it is posted on his Facebook and S197Forum), EPAS, and a 2010 CAI.

You can use the 2010 bracket from Ford or make your own. I took a piece of scrap aluminum, bent it, and mounted it to the driver's side valve cover.
I’m definitely gonna check into this.

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post #48 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019 Thread Starter
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I have experience with bad tunes on my truck. Made the thing run super rich, never knowing if it was going to start, crazy things happening with transmission shifts. Yes it was a nightmare. But notice my first big problem “running super rich” would not cause detonation or any catastrophic failure. It was a very easy fix albeit expensive. I just replaced the ecu and all was back to stock. I’m willing to take that chance again on my mustang, but hopefully I will have better luck this time.
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One sees posts here on the forum regarding bolt on hardware and issues with canned tunes. This is one example of problems and potential engine damage. Lots of posts on quality made mustangs breaking, for no reason? Sure!
Bad tunes causing damage to an engine is one thing, but NA bolt-on parts don't even come close to pushing the limits of the engine drive train. I've smoked the tires at 60 mph with a supercharged 5.3 and still haven't been able to snap the cheap 5r55 transmission or driveshaft in half. I don't care if I have to get my knuckles dirty, or if I have to replace the transmission (with something other than a 5r55.) If you're aren't breaking a few parts, you're not making much power. That's what mustangs are for … hot rodding.
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Bad tunes causing damage to an engine is one thing, but NA bolt-on parts don't even come close to pushing the limits of the engine drive train. I've smoked the tires at 60 mph with a supercharged 5.3 and still haven't been able to snap the cheap 5r55 transmission or driveshaft in half. I don't care if I have to get my knuckles dirty, or if I have to replace the transmission (with something other than a 5r55.) If you're aren't breaking a few parts, you're not making much power. That's what mustangs are for … hot rodding.
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I guess there are many ways to treat one's Mustang. My Mustang is a Muscle Car which is defined as being a car that's between a hot rod and a sports car. It's very fast, yet it corners well and it's quite comfortable driving around town and on long trips. It's also a sleeper that is driven around town by a little old man !


Been fun posting with you folks...




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I guess there are many ways to treat one's Mustang. My Mustang is a Muscle Car which is defined as being a car that's between a hot rod and a sports car. It's very fast, yet it corners well and it's quite comfortable driving around town and on long trips. It's also a sleeper that is driven around town by a little old man !


Been fun posting with you folks...
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2007 Mustang GT Deluxe Edition 5 Speed - White, Red Shelby Stripes
Roush Intake, 322 LPH Fuel Pump, 3.55 Gears, Dana Spicer Aluminum Driveshaft, Magnaflow Race Series Axle-Backs, 91 Oct. Dyno Tuning
255/50/R17 NITTO 555s, Slotted Rotors
324 RWHP, 328 RWTQ - 9-1-2018

1996 Mustang GT Coupe Auto White
2004 Shadow Gray Convertible 4.2L V6
Pacesetter Shortys, 2.5 Duals, Deleted Cats, Custom 2.5 H Pipe, Flowmaster 40s
Auburn Posi with 3.27 gears, 0.5 Phenolic Manifold Spacer
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I get what your saying. There’s only so much air that will drawn as it’s being sucked by the pistons movement. Yes the only way to increase this is by increasing rpm, cylinder bore, or duration and lift on the cam. But we can make it easier for the air to get to the chamber with these intakes by smoothing our flow, and less restriction on the filter, and a bigger maf housing. These things create like a bottle neck in the intakes path. In my opinion that’s where the gains are.

If you do the calcs, there is no loss of flow that is above negligible..... those are not bottlenecks until you exceed their flow capacity......as I showed a friend of mine many years ago on his then new chev 5.3..... the oem TB will flow up to 900 cfm...…. I have not run the calcs on the mustang, but, the TB well exceeds the capacity of the engine, and the bends, even if you calc in the maximum possible restriction it does not reduce the flow by more than 1% and the system by design exceeds the engine capacity by 15%-20%..... so even if you loose 5% of the CFM flow because of all these restrictions.....you are still capable of flowing a full 10% more than the engine can injest.


What many view as an issue (is the plasticintake tube with its noise canceling design) actually increases airpressure. It is the same hydraulicconcept used by fire fighters creating water supply where psi is low. By havingthe air cross the path at a 90 degree angle, the pressure is increasedproportionally. Fire fighters use whatis called a “4-way valve” or “Blake Valve” at the hydrant where the water iscycled through the fire engine (pump) and sent back into the valve crossing thewater flow at a 90 degree angle. In thiscase it also acts as a sound canceling device!




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post #54 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019 Thread Starter
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What many view as an issue (is the plasticintake tube with its noise canceling design) actually increases airpressure. It is the same hydraulicconcept used by fire fighters creating water supply where psi is low. By havingthe air cross the path at a 90 degree angle, the pressure is increasedproportionally. Fire fighters use whatis called a “4-way valve” or “Blake Valve” at the hydrant where the water iscycled through the fire engine (pump) and sent back into the valve crossing thewater flow at a 90 degree angle. In thiscase it also acts as a sound canceling device!
This would cause a super amount of turbulence. I’ve built piping systems for a living. Believe me when the engineers drawing calls for a long radius 90* elbow you better make sure that’s what’s there. Using a short radius elbow creates turbulence and both the end of the elbow and the opposite side of the steel pipe will be eatin through in no time. Turbulence in the case of air flow is an enemy. Why do you think planes shudder and shake when they hit a cross wind. Obviously it’s not efficient.
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I get what your saying. There’s only so much air that will drawn as it’s being sucked by the pistons movement. . . . .
it really isn't that simple; the goal is to get as much air/fuel mix into the cylinder as possible, and for practical purposes we will never get "100%" due to the pressure drop through the intake

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If you do the calcs, there is no loss of flow that is above negligible..... .... the oem TB will flow up to 900 cfm...…. I have not run the calcs on the mustang, but, the TB well exceeds the capacity of the engine, and the bends, even if you calc in the maximum possible restriction it does not reduce the flow by more than 1% and the system by design exceeds the engine capacity by 15%-20%..... so even if you loose 5% of the CFM flow because of all these restrictions.....you are still capable of flowing a full 10% more than the engine can injest.
those calculations are meaningless if they do not include pressure drop through the system; if you look up the test standard for those flow rates, they will always include a pressure drop; and the whole point is to reduce the pressure drop for a given flow rate

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This would cause a super amount of turbulence. I’ve built piping systems for a living. . . . .
yeah the pipe thing is really a different situation all together, I think the goal there is to increase the velocity coming out of the nozzle so it will spray farther; not to reduce the pressure differential through the system

this oversimplification of flow rates can easily lead you to the wrong conclusion . . . but still, for practical purposes, my conclusion is "don't expect much and you won't be disappointed, do this stuff for the fun of it, not because you are expecting some specific gain"

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post #56 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019 Thread Starter
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my conclusion is "don't expect much and you won't be disappointed, do this stuff for the fun of it, not because you are expecting some specific gain"
I agree totally. I’ve modded my lawnmower for the love of Christ.
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post #57 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019 Thread Starter
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yeah the pipe thing is really a different situation all together, I think the goal there is to increase the velocity coming out of the nozzle so it will spray farther; not to reduce the pressure differential through the system.
I agree here also. It is a different game, but very close to the same principal
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This would cause a super amount of turbulence. I’ve built piping systems for a living. Believe me when the engineers drawing calls for a long radius 90* elbow you better make sure that’s what’s there. Using a short radius elbow creates turbulence and both the end of the elbow and the opposite side of the steel pipe will be eatin through in no time. Turbulence in the case of air flow is an enemy. Why do you think planes shudder and shake when they hit a cross wind. Obviously it’s not efficient.
I'm glad you have built piping systems for a living..... there is no relationship between the two, as you are dealing with friction resistance with liquids versus air, which if you look at the actual SAE tests that were done on the more popular CAI's (aftermarket) that was done years ago......there was no impact. Lets just take the old adage of how much flow you are loosing by "dinging your headers" to get them to fit....well, has proven time and time again to be invalid as air flow dynamics will create increased flow as a result of that restriction....engine masters did a show on this years ago and the three hosts literally lost all their bets as the HP & tq increased on the engine as the went from denting the tubes to crushing them.


I too, not only come a father who was an engineer deeply involved in the space and missile defense programs (he was one of the program managers and was the original engineer who designed the wings & control surfaces of the phoenix missle- which flew at mach 5), but he was a known salt flat racer.....I my self worked for the largest electronics mfg in the world in the 1980s'...specific their space & radar business units...

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. . . Why do you think planes shudder and shake when they hit a cross wind. . . .
it's because of pressure differentials of course!



half joking, but it actually is -- like all fluid flow, wind is a flow of air, moving from an area of higher pressure toward lower pressure, and when it hits one side of the plane, the higher pressure on that surface pushes the plane toward the lower pressure on the other side . . . turbulence is chunks of higher pressure air mixed up with chunks of lower pressure air, and if the higher pressure hits the airplane on one side, it pushes the plane toward the lower pressure air on the other side . . .

OK I'll quit now, otherwise I'm going to have to find my Fluid Dynamics text book that I haven't cracked in about 35 years, LOL

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Also, I place some trust in Ford’s engineering and manufacturing but I’m not willing to push my car to the extreme even when the “experts” or vendors say it’s ok to do so.

nobody here is talking about extremes. if you dont wish to do it that is your choice but its not providing anything to the post. you are talking about limits and Ford didnt build these cars to the limits.



they pretty much made a lame mustang in years 05-09 and the tuning and bolt ons make this car what it should have been to begin with. and not anywhere near the limits.

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