I have quite a bit of shifter side to side play while in any gear (I'll grab a video of it shortly). It doesn't feel normal, but I'm new to the S197 platform.
Does the car drive and shift fine? If so easy fix and good time to upgrade to that short throw I am sure you have been curious about getting. Been there done that on a S197, but it happened to me with a hurst short throw I had at the time.
Driving around low / mid rpm and shifting not too fast it does fine. Anything above 5,500rpm or close to redline I get mega lock out in 3rd gear. Sometimes 1st to 2nd as well but not as often.
Going from 2nd to 3rd shifting at redline I have to go to neutral, wait a second, then go to 3rd gear. Anything even remotely quick and I hit a wall.
Obviously, sloppy shifting because of worn bushings won't help - but sounds like your synchros need a bit of an assist too. If I were you, I'd change out your gear oil with a good modern synthetic and see if that helps get you in and out of gear better. Definitely replace the bushings too, or you'll just be slopping around missing your shifts and grinding gears anyway.
You could replace the bushings in the stock shifter but you'd be much happier with an aftermarket short throw unit. Then it won't feel like you're stirring soup every time you change gears. This is the reason why the gears aren't engaging cleanly.
Yeah, I wouldn't turn down a shorter throw. I grew up with manual cars, so this isn't anything new to me. But... This shifting being as sloppy as it is feels strange. First car with a remote mount shifter as well, so I guess an upgrade is in order. My original thought was an MGW Flatshifter with a BlowFish V2 bracket. Eliminate the remote mount altogether and do a new shifter on top of that.
That sounds normal for a sloppy shifter with worn parts, but sounds like everything else is ok. I wouldn't dive it to hard right now or you will damage the synchros if you haven't already. Order a shifter and install and you will be all set!
I haven't really drove it super hard. My previous daily had a lot less power, so I'm still getting the hang of it. The gearing is insane tho, at the top of second I'm going 80mph...
You could replace the bushings in the stock shifter but you'd be much happier with an aftermarket short throw unit. Then it won't feel like you're stirring soup every time you change gears. This is the reason why the gears aren't engaging cleanly.
I do think there are some better options than the original Mercon ATF; Mobil 1 ATF is the "de-facto standard" to my knowledge, and I thought I read some threads that said that Penzoil Synchromesh? was about the best . . . suggest you try some searches to find the threads with the latest on this.
I'll probably go with Mobil 1. I've used that exclusively (motor oil) for years and numerous vehicles. Currently running Mobil 1 extended performance 10w-30 with a K&N filter. Would only make sense to go with Mobil 1 ATF.
I have run the original fluid, Mobil-1, and Amsoil in mine; and I think the Mobil-1 and Amsoil were both a little smoother shifting than the original, but not a big difference. There was a thread on here with a "better" fluid but I don't remember if it was the Havoline or Pennzoil; but that's what I was going to try next time I change it. (I have been changing it every couple years because I road track the car)
Regarding 80 MPH in 2nd -- that seems a bit high from what I remember, from when I had the original 3.31 rear gears in mine; and I calculate 70 MPH at 6,500 RPM in 5th with the original 235/50-18 tires and 3.31 rear. Do you have taller tires or taller gearing?
No, stock 235/50/18's. Yeah, right at the tip of rev limit in second, I'm sitting at 80mph +/- a few mph because the needle is so wide lol.
The 02 new edge I had the previous owner installed 4.10's. As far as "toy" cars or secondary cars, I went from a 4.10 new edge (stock engine), to an 07 MX5 5 speed, to this 2010 GT. The 3.31 is sooooo long compared to those cars
The 3650 shifter linkage includes a link between the shifter itself and the transmission proper that is apparently subject to wear. If this part is to blame, changing the shifter can help, but won't eliminate the problems. I am not aware of any shifter mfr including this part as part of a shifter kit.
FWIW, short-throw shifters typically increase any tendency for notchiness.
The 3650 shifter linkage includes a link between the shifter itself and the transmission proper that is apparently subject to wear. If this part is to blame, changing the shifter can help, but won't eliminate the problems. I am not aware of any shifter mfr including this part as part of a shifter kit.
FWIW, short-throw shifters typically increase any tendency for notchiness.
Interesting. I wonder if could machine a bushing to fix the play. Also, I noticed another interesting noise today. I should probably post a new thread, but I'll post it here just because I don't want to spam the forum.
I have a drive-train noise (I'm assuming it's drive-train), almost like a grinding sound. Not a harsh wheel bearing going bad, throw out bearing locked up noise but it's audible. Its only really noticeable crusing at about 40ish mph. If I slightly hit the gas then let off, I can hear the noise when I accelerate but can't hear it when I let off the gas.
I've tried / tested the following:
Slighting left foot braking while maintaining a speed (40mph). No change in noise, can still hear the grinding.
Lifting up slighting on the hand brake while maintaining 40mph. No change in noise, can still hear the grinding.
At a dead stop. No grinding. Clutch in, out etc. Nothing.
Different gears, at 40mph. No change in noise.
Moving at 40mph, clutch in (foot to the floor, gear selector in neutral) and revving to about 3,000rpm. No grinding at all.
Moving at 40mph, clutch out (foot off the clutch, gear selector in neutral) and revving to about 3,000rpm. No grinding at all.
Decelerating from 40mph in any gear. No grinding at all.
Accelerating from 40mph in any gear. Audible grinding noise.
It's hard to describe the noise, but it's not gear-whine. Its a consistent noise, almost like brake pad indicators but not as noisy.
I'm gonna start with a set of these and a fluid change.
Since it only seems to be happening under 'drive' conditions and not during 'coast', I'm wondering if the big pinion bearing is on the way out, and the pinion is moving forward under 'drive' loads.
Since it only seems to be happening under 'drive' conditions and not during 'coast', I'm wondering if the big pinion bearing is on the way out, and the pinion is moving forward under 'drive' loads.
I used 40mph because I could actually hear it more clearly when I'm right along something. Unless I'm right next to a guard rail, wall or something like that I don't hear it. When I bought the car it had a Pypes muffler delete, so it's noisy anyways lol. At first I thought it could have been the muffler delete causing the noise but all the clamps are tight and there doesn't appear to be any leaks.
I should also add, I have zero vibrations, clunking or anything like that.
Okay, minor update on the noise. Tonight I jacked one side up to check the driveshaft for play at the pinion. Just out of curiosity I spun the wheel that was off the ground (jacked up drivers rear) and only one wheel spun... No LSD so that's a bummer.
Anyways, I faintly heard the noise. Sounded like brake noise so I checked out the pads to see how much material I had left. And... it's maybe a 1/16th of pad material left. If that. The fronts have a ton of material left.
So I'm thinking its actually pads and or riding on the wear indicators. I'm gonna pick up a set of pads Monday and see what happens.
As the limited slip has gradually worn its way toward becoming an open diff, Traction Control and AdvanceTrac have almost certainly been making the rear brakes work more and more. I'm not necessarily blaming you here; the car's previous owner(s) could have easily been responsible for nearly all of this.
I did not think of that, but it makes perfect sense. So far I've put just over 2,000 miles on it since I picked it up. Admittedly, I have been just learning the feel of the car with TCS enabled. I have been slowly disabling it from time to time, but yes, I have seen the traction light blink at me more than a few times. As far as I know (being a GT base) I do not have AdvanceTrac (holding the button with foot on the brake does nothing) but I could be wrong.
I'm gonna try to pick up some pads Monday at get them swapped out. I'm hoping that's the noise I'm hearing, but either way it needs pads due to how thin they are.
Okay, minor update on the noise. Tonight I jacked one side up to check the driveshaft for play at the pinion. Just out of curiosity I spun the wheel that was off the ground (jacked up drivers rear) and only one wheel spun... No LSD so that's a bummer. . . . .
hmmm, just wondering, is that really the way it works?
I'm thinking the differential would be designed to allow the wheels to free-wheel when needed, like when coasting around a corner; the "limited slip" comes into play when the engine is applying power to the wheels.
but I have never tried that test on a working LSD so I don't really know????
Clutch-style LSDs like the Traction-loc (and cone-style LSDs like the Auburns) want the two wheels to stay locked (via friction), and only allow slip once the preload has been overcome. IOW, they're basically lockers until cornering makes them slip (overcoming the friction).
That's why corner-carving in general (and autocross in particular) is hard on these kinds of LSD - you're forcing slip to occur because you're cornering (sharpness of the corner matters a lot here), and you're pushing a lot more power to the wheels than would be even close to appropriate for similar-radius corners in most street driving situations.
There's even a test you can do to determine Traction-loc health where you jack one rear tire clear of the ground and with the transmission in neutral turn the wheel that's off the ground using a torque wrench (and an adaptor piece). If you can turn the wheel over using little or near-zero torque (there's a spec for the minimum acceptable torque), it's worn past acceptability.
FWIW, a Torsen basically wants to slip until it is made to lock.
Not quite yet. But I do have the Torsen and I do have a 3.73 gearset. Unfortunately, that project stalled (number of reasons, having to work outside being one of them).
Well, no dice on the pads. I swapped them out (both outside pads had hair line cracks in the center) but it didn't solve the noise. Twisting the caliper pistons back in was a chore (master cylinder cap was off, using the correct brake tool) but they finally went in.
So I'm back to square one. I really dont think it's diff / driveshaft related. I ripped on it pretty good. 1st gear to redline, semi-power shift to 2nd, and its just hooked. TCS off, usually it spins. No clunks, grinding, pops or anything.
Kind of off the wall, but would a muffler delete (bought the car with it on) cause a tingy / grinding noise while cruising? Kind of like an exhaust resonance?
Well, no dice on the pads. I swapped them out (both outside pads had hair line cracks in the center) but it didn't solve the noise. Twisting the caliper pistons back in was a chore (master cylinder cap was off, using the correct brake tool) but they finally went in.
Maybe too late now, but when you have to depress the caliper pistons (or screw them in) to fit new pads, you should run a hose from the bleed fitting into a bottle and crack the bleed fitting open.
You want to get the dirtiest and most heat-affected fluid out of the system. Not pushed back up into the ABS HCU.
Kind of off the wall, but would a muffler delete (bought the car with it on) cause a tingy / grinding noise while cruising? Kind of like an exhaust resonance?
Norm, you are a wealth of knowledge. Once again I did not think of that, and I very much appreciate the info. I'll be doing the front pads probably next week, and I'll go with the bleed method.
I wish I could record the noise, but honestly it probably wouldn't pick it up very well. I can only hear it when I'm against a wall or something. Picture a rock stuck between the rotor and dust shield type sound. It never gets better and it never gets worse... So I'm stumped lol. I've had wheel bearings and general bearing noise / failure before and it's nothing like that.
If I can't find anything obvious when I change the diff oil and trans fluid (still waiting on the bronze bushings) I'm just going to drive it until it becomes a real issue.
Norm, you are a wealth of knowledge. Once again I did not think of that, and I very much appreciate the info. I'll be doing the front pads probably next week, and I'll go with the bleed method.
Don't leave the bleed fittings open any longer than it takes to push the pistons back into the caliper. You may still get a few more air bubbles when you bleed the brakes after installing the new pads.
I wish I could record the noise, but honestly it probably wouldn't pick it up very well. I can only hear it when I'm against a wall or something. Picture a rock stuck between the rotor and dust shield type sound. It never gets better and it never gets worse... So I'm stumped lol. I've had wheel bearings and general bearing noise / failure before and it's nothing like that.
Any chance that the dust shield itself is bent somewhere, or has distorted (for some unknown reason) enough to lightly contact the rotor? I've had that happen on one of my cars.
I've been doing nearly all of the repair, maintenance, and modification work on my own cars since about 1966. Not as a professional technician, but over that much time I sure hope I've picked up a few things.
For now, I'd wait and see how your fix holds up. Your bends probably stiffened the shield enough against whatever vibration mode(s) you were hearing, so as long as they stay bent a little the noise may not return. Costs nothing, not even any of your time, to find out.
So far so good. I haven't heard it at all today. I did take the wheel off to see if I could find anything obvious but yeah, super easy fix. Never have I had that sort of sound come from a brake shield before.
Now hopefully the shifter bushings show up soon so I can tackle that.
Apparently USPS has lost my order in some way.... I was hoping to have the bushings / trans fluid changed by now. Oh well.
Speaking of which, can you buy the replacement rubber bushings (front and rear of shifter) for the stock shifter setup separate?
Okay, bushings are in! I'm kinda half-ass tempted to do a video on it because there doesn't seem to be much info on these.
Wow, so I still haven't gotten around to changing my shifter bushings.... And tonight it almost cost me the car. Last week I was leaving work, just turned on to the highway in 1st gear and did a quick 1-2 shift. 2nd gear was a brick wall, I had traffic behind me so I tried forcing second and nothing. I had to go to third, then back to second. Tonight I take off through a 4 way when my light was green, I'm about to the 1st to 2nd shift and I see a car hauling ass out of the passenger window straight toward me. Foot to the floor and did a 1st to 2nd, nothing....brick wall and banged the limiter trying to force it the entire time. Luckily the car avoided everyone and no one go hurt or hit.
Thinking maybe I panicked and just missed the gate. I go to a back road with no traffic and do some 1st to 2nd shifting. More often than not I just hit a wall going to 2nd and 3rd is a crap shoot. I'm going to change the bushings hopefully this week and see what happens. If it doesn't fix the problem I'm getting rid of the car. I'm not sinking $300 for a shifter, $50 for bushings and possibly another $300 for a blowflish V2 bracket just to fix a Ford screw up.
Ouch looks like one of my last comments a few months ago on this was me saying driving it like this is hard on the syncros. Def hope driving so much and not making this repair hasn't worn them especially with the miss shift issues you are having now, but not getting into gear easily could be a sign of syncro issues...
In the start I think bushing is all you needed. Now having driven it so much it might have prematurely worn other parts, but you will see once you replace bushings and we can hope all else is good. I will say if bushings doesn't fix it you would be better off repairing shifter for $300 than trying to sell as is. Selling as is with an issue always brings a loss bigger than the repair cost. The blowfish bracket I don't think is needed if you didn't have problems before the bushings failed. I do know it was recommended for my Boss 302 and it is apparently worth the money and then some, bu I never got it. Instead I had the clutch replaced under warranty and put a steel braided clutch line in during that and that fixed all my problems so didn't end up getting the bracket, but it was my next go to had the clutch and line not fixed my problems.
Ouch looks like one of my last comments a few months ago on this was me saying driving it like this is hard on the syncros. Def hope driving so much and not making this repair hasn't worn them especially with the miss shift issues you are having now, but not getting into gear easily could be a sign of syncro issues...
In the start I think bushing is all you needed. Now having driven it so much it might have prematurely worn other parts, but you will see once you replace bushings and we can hope all else is good. I will say if bushings doesn't fix it you would be better off repairing shifter for $300 than trying to sell as is. Selling as is with an issue always brings a loss bigger than the repair cost. The blowfish bracket I don't think is needed if you didn't have problems before the bushings failed. I do know it was recommended for my Boss 302 and it is apparently worth the money and then some, bu I never got it. Instead I had the clutch replaced under warranty and put a steel braided clutch line in during that and that fixed all my problems so didn't end up getting the bracket, but it was my next go to had the clutch and line not fixed my problems.
No, I don't think it's synchronizes. It shifts fine if I'm not getting into the torque band. Just driving around normal it shifts fine. Hmm. Yeah I'm hoping I haven't worn the shift linkage but only one way to tell.
Forcing an upshift against foot-to-the-floor higher revs is a bad bet. The higher gear you're trying to get into really wants to see lower engine revs, which means lifting momentarily. Probably would have been better to stay in 1st, especially since you were already aware of there being some shifting difficulty.
I'm guessing you weren't lifting off the throttle during your back road upshift testing, either.
While you're under there, check the link that runs between the shifter mechanism proper and the transmission.
Norm
Norm, sorry I should have clarified. I wasn't power shifting or no lift shifting, it was basically 1st gear, foot to the floor, foot off the gas / clutch in, try to hit 2nd only to find a brick wall and reaction / panic caused me to hit the gas again thinking I was actually going to make the shift. When I tested this later on, I noticed I had no grinding at all trying to get it into gear. Just felt like it was in a bind.
The car has always done that with 2nd to 3rd shifts at or near redline. But lately it's now becoming the same issue with 1st to 2nd. Up until about a month ago I can 1st to 2nd very consistent, 2nd to 3rd has been a crap shoot since day one. I only managed to get a perfect 2nd to 3rd once and it was an amazing feeling slightly loosing traction on a 2-3 upshift.
It's OK to post a new thread for the noise, the site needs all the new posts and traffic that it can get! The only "SPAM" is the Constant Contact garbage, LOL
I am not sure about the source of the noise from your description; if you can post a video with sound that might help
EDIT: apparently I was not at the bottom of the thread when I posted the above, strange I thought I was at the last post . . . anyway I guess this is no longer timely
Are you referring to the grinding noise? That turned out to be my passanger rear dust brake shield. Which has been fine since I kinda tweaked it a little.
. . . I'm about to the 1st to 2nd shift and I see a car hauling ass out of the passenger window straight toward me. Foot to the floor and did a 1st to 2nd, nothing....brick wall and banged the limiter trying to force it the entire time.
Forcing an upshift against foot-to-the-floor higher revs is a bad bet. The higher gear you're trying to get into really wants to see lower engine revs, which means lifting momentarily. Probably would have been better to stay in 1st, especially since you were already aware of there being some shifting difficulty.
Thinking maybe I panicked and just missed the gate. I go to a back road with no traffic and do some 1st to 2nd shifting. More often than not I just hit a wall going to 2nd and 3rd is a crap shoot.
It's OK to post a new thread for the noise, the site needs all the new posts and traffic that it can get! The only "SPAM" is the Constant Contact garbage, LOL
I am not sure about the source of the noise from your description; if you can post a video with sound that might help
EDIT: apparently I was not at the bottom of the thread when I posted the above, strange I thought I was at the last post . . . anyway I guess this is no longer timely
So I didn't drive the car yesterday or most of today. I took my 224,xxx mile Impala that works great and has ice cold A/C lol. I was feeling guilty so I went for a quick drive today with the Mustang. I've come to the realization that this car is a chore to drive. I can list more negatives (mainly design flaws) than positives and every time I drive the car I usually end up aggravated. I traded a 2007 MX5 soft top 5 speed for this 2010 Mustang. Looking back, the MX5 was a blast to drive from day one up until I traded it. I only traded it because I was having the V8 itch again but now I'm regretting that decision.
I had the MX5 for 3 years, drove it almost year round unless it snowed. It was rock solid, one of the most reliable cars I've ever driven and It put a smile on my face every time I drove it. I can't say the same for this 2010 Mustang. I keep trying to talk myself into keeping it or upgrading it to suit my driving style but the more thought I put into it, the more I realize it will cost more time and money to actually make this car user friendly (my personal opinion) that what its worth.
So with that said, I'm going to be either selling or trading this 2010 In ASAP for possibly a New Edge (which I've had before and loved) or something else. Its just not for me.
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