Ford Racing Shorty Headers M9430-s197 - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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I have no choice being in CA where long tubes aren't legal, so have to run shorties. Ninosport.com recommended JBAs to me because they are 50 state legal, unlike some of the ceramic coated shorties which may not meet requirements here.

I'm kind of stuck debating between Ford Racing headers and JBAs


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If performance is what you're after, spend your money elsewhere. If it is for sound/looks then whichever you like better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post
I just ordered some Pypes shorties from AM. Although everyone says they are a waste of money, for the looks and sound, I'll cough up the $258.00, I don't have the $$ for LT's right now, and don't want to deal with the headache every time I need a sticker. So I'll take the (unproven) slight boost in power, and under hood looks!
Im with JohnnyFive, I just could not stand the rusty manifolds anymore!! Installed a set of Pypes shorties. Cannot feel a difference but do look good! My car was just about 400hp at the wheels after Vortech install so even if shorties add 5-10 hp it would be hard to feel the difference.

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Talking

  • Ford engineers put shorty headers on the 2011 Mustang GT.
  • Ford engineers are all dumb assess.
  • AFM could save Ford a considerable amount of money if they never would have switched to these worthless short headers.
  • Ford will cut corners 86'ing the passenger's side lock cylinder but blow R&D money on short headers. How did they manage to stay out of bankruptcy?
  • When will Ford start listening to the general public and give up this crazy idea that short headers work better than straight up exhaust manifolds?
  • What a bunch of Dearborn dumb assess.... Viva the delete plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quote:
Exhaust
An area where the Coyote breaks from the modular pack is its pulse-separated, tubular headers. While hardly the first tubular Ford headers, these intelligently tuned manifolds represent a deep commitment to making power. Doggedly designed, protected from both axe-wielding finance men and dent-prone assembly plants, then nurtured by patient calibration engineers, these headers visibly represent the willing-to-bleed-for-it dedication the Coyote team had toward making power.
Technically, Coyote headers are a short Tri-Y design complicated by the Coyote firing order differing from other Blue Oval V-8s and the need to package the catalytic converters close to the engine. We'll let Adam Christian, the team member who designed these headers, as well as the prototype builder who welded up the prototypes in his home garage, tell the Coyote exhaust manifold story as he told it to us.


Built like tanks with thick...

read full caption



Built like tanks with thick flanges and heavy-gauge stainless steel pipe, the tuned Coyote short-tube Tri-Y headers show just how much complexity and cost it takes to prevail with a high-rpm, naturally aspirated engine. The short primary pipe on cylinder No. 8 purposely mates with No. 7's primary at almost 90 degrees because it is physically stronger at high temperatures that way. Routing No. 8 almost parallel to No. 7 would eventually see the pipes cracking and pulling out of the collector.

Adam started by showing us some test results of the current Mustang GT header. "Here's a comparison of a standard cast manifold like on the Three-Valve 4.6 today, which is a nice design. It was hard to beat those manifolds, actually."
"Headers only give you torque, right? That's in general. And while we wanted torque, we needed to sell the manifolds on power. We had already beat our torque target, so advertised power [was the goal]," Adam explained. "When I left racing [Ford Racing], I told the guy, 'I'm going back to production and I'm taking two things with me: headers and valve lofting.' And at least we got one of them into [the Coyote]. We almost loft-it's really close! We basically go to zero force over the nose, but it doesn't actually come unglued."

"So basically the benefits of the tubular headers in a nutshell is about 15 lb-ft and 6 hp,"


......



IDIOTS!!!!! Short headers????? What are they thinking??????

Those Ford Engineers really need to spend more time on AFM. We'd set them straight!

Oh, the humanity!!!!!!!





.....

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Quote:
If performance is what you're after, spend your money elsewhere. If it is for sound/looks then whichever you like better.
Absolutely. You could pick up a set of delete plates from Steeda for about the same price. You'd probably lose some torque on the bottom end but you see maybe a good 4 hp on the top end....


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That is a flawed testing procedure. Those are not conclusive findings.
Is anything really conclusive???? (with the exception of death... and then maybe not even that....)


There is nothing conclusive about this topic...

..

It will go on long after I'm gone...

....

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Quote:
shorty headers look pretty, ....

Speak for yourself, my car's headers look hideous.... Now Stingers, they look purdy....

...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLou View Post
  • Ford engineers put shorty headers on the 2011 Mustang GT.
  • Ford engineers are all dumb assess.
  • AFM could save Ford a considerable amount of money if they never would have switched to these worthless short headers.
  • Ford will cut corners 86'ing the passenger's side lock cylinder but blow R&D money on short headers. How did they manage to stay out of bankruptcy?
  • When will Ford start listening to the general public and give up this crazy idea that short headers work better than straight up exhaust manifolds?
  • What a bunch of Dearborn dumb assess.... Viva the delete plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



IDIOTS!!!!! Short headers????? What are they thinking??????

Those Ford Engineers really need to spend more time on AFM. We'd set them straight!

Oh, the humanity!!!!!!!





.....
A planet where Apes evolved from Man! Oh the humanity (or lack thereof)!

I will conceded that there is the possibility of gains from an equal length shorty header on some combinations I will not agree that they are anywhere near close to a good $$/hp ratio. Much better off to spend the extra bucks on something else or longtubes.

As far as the new 5.0 headers go those are not exactly shorties. They are not long tubes either. They are best defined as mid length. Which gives a lot more opportunity to design them for some scavenging.

That being said the 5.0 motors are picking up as much if not more hp than the 3v with LTís. Itís not like Fords decision to put tuned length, mid length headers was the be all, end all of heard design for that motor. They are still massively compromised. Better than manifolds though.

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The headers on the 5.0 are an improvement to manifolds. What most people forget is that the engineers have to fall within a set group of emission and MPG standards. They are by no means dumb, after all the new Shelby with it's 55ohp doesn't get hit with the gas guzzler tax and the GT has 412hp and is sold in CA where the emission NAZIs are. I'm sure if given the opertunity to build a Stang with nothing to regulate them, one insanely fast car would produced. We just see an end product and wonder why if everyone lowers theie Mustang they keep being produced with a 4x4 stance. Belive it or not the majority of the Mustang owners don't do any thing to their Pony but add gas and get oil changes. That majority seems to like a soft quite ride and still want to be able to say they own a Stang. So, between them and the emmision NAZIs we get hosed.

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RWHP/RWTQ is adequate
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Quote:
Absolutely. You could pick up a set of delete plates from Steeda for about the same price. You'd probably lose some torque on the bottom end but you see maybe a good 4 hp on the top end....
I never said anything specific, and that money could be contributed towards something worthwhile.
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I didn't give up any torque at least that I noticed with my delete plates. I did everything through Brenspeed and the tune they made for me with the deletes rocks. Botom line it's all in the tune.

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RWHP/RWTQ is adequate
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I have long tubes myself and am very happy with the power/sound.
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I have the Ford Racing Ceramics. They look great, and definitely enhance the exhaust note. But like any headers, they are a royal pain to install. I replaced the motor mounts since I had it jacked-up for the install.
Long tubes are illegal almost everywhere, and removing them for emissions inspection is out of the question. Just my 2-cents.
Use the stainless bolts and two-piece lock washers from Totally Stainless. They won't gall the aluminum threads (do use anti-seize), and they won't loosen up over time.
Good luck.

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"Get your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!"

I read an interview with the Ford engineers on the 2011 GT. They said with the headers having to be short (due to emissions) they chased port separation...

Quote:
...
In addition to adding displacement and boosting the flow of air into the engine, Fordís engineers also streamlined the flow of air out of the engine. Its innovative tubular exhaust headers are credited with increasing output by 6 hp and 15 lb∑ft (4.5 kW and 20 N∑m, respectively), according to Adam Christian, the program's intake, exhaust and combustion engineer.
Working within the package constraints of the Mustang's engine-compartment space, Fordís engineers were stumped by the challenge of designing extremely compact headers that would both minimize the effect of the destructive power pulses and maximize the effect of the beneficial ones.
Mulling the problem while in the shower, Christian had an epiphany. Rather than trying to create a header design that optimized the potentially useful exhaust pulses, he decided instead to create one that eliminated the power-robbing impact of the destructive ones, by simply pairing adjacent cylinders.
He carried some lengths of steel tubing home and welded up a prototype in his garage workshop. Two weeks later its effectiveness was proven out on the dyno.
Christian said he was motivated to devise the unorthodox solution by his team leader Mike Harrison, who told him, ďAdam, just make it happen.Ē
The production tubular headers are manufactured by Benteler Automotive Corp. Christian admits that while their price premium compared to cast iron manifolds has caused some contention within the company, the power benefit is worth it.
...


Quote:
...
Itís not like Fords decision to put tuned length, mid length headers was the be all, end all of heard design for that motor. They are still massively compromised. Better than manifolds though.
...


Absolutely....



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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLou View Post
"Get your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!"

I read an interview with the Ford engineers on the 2011 GT. They said with the headers having to be short (due to emissions) they chased port separation...
[/font]
Yeah, unfortunately for Ford they have to have the cats right up there near the motor for them to work correctly.

Itís not like they donít know how to design a header, the FR500 ones work pretty good and I was under a 2010 3v with some FRPP longtubes the other day and they were very nice looking. The collectors were beautiful.


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