Cat Forward Headers - Worth the Price? - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007 Thread Starter
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Cat Forward Headers - Worth the Price?

Guys,

My 06 GT is close to stock. The only mods so far are a K&N CAI, Flowmaster American Thunder Axle-Backs, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, and FRPP Sway Bars. I do have an SCT Tuner on order from Bama Chips. My question is, are shorty headers worth the money? Before I get another "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it" response, trust me, I can afford it. I just don't want to throw good money away. I want to put my money towards real HP improvements. By the way, I want to keep it 50 state smog legal so I'm not interested in long tube headers and high flow cats are too expensive. I searched the site for this topic before I posted this message but didn't see what I was looking for. In a nut shell, what are the best bang for the money shorty headers, FRPP, JBA, etc.? Thanks for the assist...


06 Mustang GT, Hurst short throw, Flowmasters, Steeda adj suspension system w/ Tokicko D-Specs, LCA's, panhard bar w/ brace, FRPP sway bars & Steeda endlinks, Steeda CAI, 18" deep dish bullitts w/ Nitto's (275's & 255's), CDC chin spoiler, Webasto power moon roof, MagnaCharger, Comp Cams XFI Stage 2 NSR cams, 4.10's, JBA Cat4Ward headers, Shaft Masters 3.5" al DS, MAC Prochamber, FRPP 62mm TB.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007
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Other than making the engine bay look a little nicer, there's really no performance value to shorty headers. The stock cast iron manifolds actually flow very well. I've run both tuned and unequal length shorties. Neither was worth the $$.


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007 Thread Starter
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Thanks stlwagon. I wonder why the Shelby GTH's have FRPP shorty headers and an X pipe. Maybe just another reason to sell them for a premium when they come off rent at Hertz.

06 Mustang GT, Hurst short throw, Flowmasters, Steeda adj suspension system w/ Tokicko D-Specs, LCA's, panhard bar w/ brace, FRPP sway bars & Steeda endlinks, Steeda CAI, 18" deep dish bullitts w/ Nitto's (275's & 255's), CDC chin spoiler, Webasto power moon roof, MagnaCharger, Comp Cams XFI Stage 2 NSR cams, 4.10's, JBA Cat4Ward headers, Shaft Masters 3.5" al DS, MAC Prochamber, FRPP 62mm TB.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
Thanks stlwagon. I wonder why the Shelby GTH's have FRPP shorty headers and an X pipe. Maybe just another reason to sell them for a premium when they come off rent at Hertz.
Don't know... I mean they're probably good for a few hp but certainly not worth the cost/hp gained. The X-pipe alone is good for more hp than the shorty headers.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007 Thread Starter
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Too bad I have the Flows. I've heard that they sound "tinny" with an X pipe. Looks like I'm stuck with the stock H pipe, at least untill I ever decide to replace the axle backs.

06 Mustang GT, Hurst short throw, Flowmasters, Steeda adj suspension system w/ Tokicko D-Specs, LCA's, panhard bar w/ brace, FRPP sway bars & Steeda endlinks, Steeda CAI, 18" deep dish bullitts w/ Nitto's (275's & 255's), CDC chin spoiler, Webasto power moon roof, MagnaCharger, Comp Cams XFI Stage 2 NSR cams, 4.10's, JBA Cat4Ward headers, Shaft Masters 3.5" al DS, MAC Prochamber, FRPP 62mm TB.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
Too bad I have the Flows. I've heard that they sound "tinny" with an X pipe. Looks like I'm stuck with the stock H pipe, at least untill I ever decide to replace the axle backs.
That is correct... I hated my Flowmasters with the X. Very raspy and tinny.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007
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from everything I have seen (dyno pulls) or read the shortys are good for 2 to 5 hp increase.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69stang View Post
from everything I have seen (dyno pulls) or read the shortys are good for 2 to 5 hp increase.
That's about what I thought. Certainly not a very cost effective mod.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007
 
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the Hertz Shelby's don't have headers - just the x-pipe

shorties are good for a few PEAK horsepower, but about 8-12 depending on brand in the mid-range, which is where you feel it on the street. If you put them iun yourself they are worth it.
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What's wrong with LTs in Bama? You can get them catted if you're and enviromentalist (okay, picked a too big of a word for me... sigh....)

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007 Thread Starter
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KJ CINCI, I do live in Bama now and it's true that emmision inspections aren't required here. But I moved here from Atlanta and plan to move back some day. Emmision inspections are mandatory there. I don't want to have to alter my set up just to pass emmissions then which rules out LT's. I like the idea of high flow cats, but a set of Kook's headers with high flow cats is around $1400. Then I'd have to pay to have them installed. I did read the excellent post on Kook's LT installation on this site but I don't think that I want to try to install them myself. If I pick up significant rear wheel HP gain with the Kook's setup, then I'd think about it. But $2000 (Kook's + estimated installion cost) is too much to pay for an extra 10 to 15 HP don't you think?

06 Mustang GT, Hurst short throw, Flowmasters, Steeda adj suspension system w/ Tokicko D-Specs, LCA's, panhard bar w/ brace, FRPP sway bars & Steeda endlinks, Steeda CAI, 18" deep dish bullitts w/ Nitto's (275's & 255's), CDC chin spoiler, Webasto power moon roof, MagnaCharger, Comp Cams XFI Stage 2 NSR cams, 4.10's, JBA Cat4Ward headers, Shaft Masters 3.5" al DS, MAC Prochamber, FRPP 62mm TB.
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I'm guessing GA and Atlanta like all others (not CA) will rid the test eventually?

If there is a test isn't it every five years?

The catted Kooks system gives over 20 HP. OR closer to 30.

Prices you have are a good estimate. It is NOT an install you wanna do at home!

You may get $100 off here; Kooks 3V Long Tube Headers and X-Pipe they used to have an AFM special, call and ask for Brandon and ask him. (The set in the pic is mine... I have later gone catless...)

On the install ask for a firm price, if you don't know the shop? They should be able to do it for $450-500. (it can take 8-10 hours and sometimes you need extra hands... if a shop charges fully for those hours it will be pricey!!)

It is after the general mods the next step and well worth while. Power and TQ is awesome! Sound and looks nice bonuses! It should get you over the 300 mark! Then heads/cams would be next... mid 300's RWHP!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeoflyer View Post
the Hertz Shelby's don't have headers - just the x-pipe

shorties are good for a few PEAK horsepower, but about 8-12 depending on brand in the mid-range, which is where you feel it on the street. If you put them iun yourself they are worth it.
8-12 rwhp?? Maybe if you're FI but not NA.

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NO SHORTIES

3-4 horsepower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER06MUSTANG View Post
NO SHORTIES

3-4 horsepower
+1. Everything I have read was about a 5 HP gain with the shorties.
Not only do the stock manifolds almost flow as well as stlwagon has said, but you won't get as good a scavenging affect with shorties that you get with long tubes. The primary tubes of the shorties just aren't long enough to produce any meaningful numbers. You will get about +25 with the long tubes and most of the extra HP comes from the superior scavenging of the long primaries since the gas velocity is higher and actually "sucks" on the following exhaust gas pulse which not only reduces back pressure, but "scavenges" all of the unburnt fuel (enert gas) from the cylinder. This enables you to get more of a fresh charge in each cylinder for a bigger boom (which is of course more power). If I was worried about passing an emissions test and couldn't do long tubes, then I wouldn't even bother with shorties. That's just MO.


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