Upgraded to an S197 - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Upgraded to an S197

I finally upgraded to an 07 GT I got a pretty good deal on. Noticeable drop in power from my 4v, but it's a much nicer ride. All stock except CAI, head unit (with reverse camera), and wheels, but the stock parts were all included. Paid $7500 for it with the stock wheels included (with new winter tires) and a BAMA Rev-X tuner. Only issues with it is the drivers side door lining is coming down (can see in the picture), and the antennae isn't hooked up to the head unit, but the signal is still decent enough till I get around to that, and it has a few dings around the outside but nothing noticeable. Might play around with one of those cheap PDR units and see if I can get them out sometime. Now I just need to sell my 01 4v GT.

Honestly I still prefer the exterior look of the New Edge Mustangs. There's just something about them that I can't put my finger on. But I hate the interiors, which is the reason I was considering an S197. It's alot more modern looking, much nicer, and more comfortable. Maybe the look of these will grow on me once I lower it and get some Flowmasters or something on it. Car drives and shifts great, but sounds a little bland due to the stock exhaust. TR3650 shifter is still sloppy apparently.

Biggest gripes so far is not having auto-headlights. Might see if any of the later Ford headlight switches would fit, and see about the wiring if so.

Stock ride height is pretty high. I saw someone selling the Eibach Pro-Kit (35101.140) around town for $100, but I'm not sure if those springs would require an adjustable panhard bar. If not I'll pick them up, but I don't the funds left over a bar if it's needed.

Shifter is fine, but has a huge throw and lots of slop. I know everybody loves the MGWs, but I'm skeptical they (or any shifter) can make that much difference in feel aside from the throw distance. Do they really work that well?

The ******* CUP HOLDERS! WHY do they always insist on putting the effing cup holders right in front of the shifter? They've got another good inch and a half or so to the right they could have moved them and they'd be mostly out of the way for our shifting arm. Same issue in the New Edges, but at least in them they're situated relatively lower than the shifter and armrest, so it's not quite as bad.

I always like the vista blue but I'm not sure what direction to go as far as exterior mods. I always like the blacked out look, but I'm not sure how well black stripes would work on Vista Blue. Silver stripes would look great imo, but dunno how they'd look with smoked taillights/decklid etc. Any opinions in this area, or any of the above?

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Present
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes
2002 BMW 330i - 5-Speed

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I got to your cup holder comment and had to start typing haha.. Said the same thing today. They are literally unusable unless you are getting sample size cups/bottles.

Very nice looking 07! Love the FR500 wheels!

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Seriously. Was this so hard?
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Present
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes
2002 BMW 330i - 5-Speed

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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That's a nice looking car and in good condition! It looks like you got a good deal on it too. For the new edge vs S197 look, I always liked the S197 look better, but that is personal preference. I liked that the styling somewhat resembles the classic 60s Mustangs in a modern and affordable daily driver.

For the shifter, I have a Hurst shifter and love it. It came with my car so I can't say how the stock shifter was, but compared to my 2000 manual Mustang stock shifter, it is much better! From what I've seen shifters aren't too expensive compared to other things you could get the car, so if that is a real issue, you may want to look into one.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Stock for stock, the 4V and 3V are almost identical in HP but the 3V produces a good amount more torque, particularly at lower rpm. A CAI & tune should really wake it up. If yours feels slow, the problem could be the BAMA tune.
A short throw shifter will make a world of difference to the quality of the shifts with the MGW, Barton, and Steeda Tri-Ax being the best on the market.
As for the stripes, I'd go with black. They'd look subtle but badass on Vista blue paintwork especially if you're going for smoked lights.


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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKrew View Post
That's a nice looking car and in good condition! It looks like you got a good deal on it too. For the new edge vs S197 look, I always liked the S197 look better, but that is personal preference. I liked that the styling somewhat resembles the classic 60s Mustangs in a modern and affordable daily driver.

For the shifter, I have a Hurst shifter and love it. It came with my car so I can't say how the stock shifter was, but compared to my 2000 manual Mustang stock shifter, it is much better! From what I've seen shifters aren't too expensive compared to other things you could get the car, so if that is a real issue, you may want to look into one.
It's not just the look of the car. I don't dislike the looks of the S197s, there's just just something more, i don't know.... 'hot rod' about the New Edges imo. Seeing a nice New Edge with a custom power plant, whether its FI, engine swap, or what have you, is just alot more interesting to me than an S197 with the equivalent. I don't know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt95 View Post
Stock for stock, the 4V and 3V are almost identical in HP but the 3V produces a good amount more torque, particularly at lower rpm. A CAI & tune should really wake it up. If yours feels slow, the problem could be the BAMA tune.
A short throw shifter will make a world of difference to the quality of the shifts with the MGW, Barton, and Steeda Tri-Ax being the best on the market.
As for the stripes, I'd go with black. They'd look subtle but badass on Vista blue paintwork especially if you're going for smoked lights.
This car doesn't feel slow, I just know I'm taking a hit in hp since my 4v dyno'd 302rwhp with a weak fuel pump. I doubt this is doing much better than stock with just the CAI and Bama tune. I do need some mufflers though. Sounds nice when you stomp on it, but pretty tame otherwise. I guess I'll also need to add a shifter to the list. Maybe see if I can find someone around here with one that'd let me try it out.

Also, forgot this has 4.10s. So does my 01 GT. For some reason in both cars I have to set the gear ratio on the tuner to 4.30s, even with the correct tire RPMs selected, in order to match the speedo up with my GPS speed. Obviously not specific to this platform since I had to do it in the '01 as well, and it's not an issue with the device since both cars have their own, anybody know why this is? My tuner confirmed the gearing was 4.10 when he tuned the '01.

Present
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes
2002 BMW 330i - 5-Speed

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I can give my 2 cents on a couple of your concerns.
First, concerning lowering springs and the panhard bar: The adjustable bar is mostly just to center the axle for aesthetics. The car will drive fine with the axle slightly off center. If you measure it now, it's likely already off center. Lowering the car only contributes a minimal amount to this.
Second, concerning the exhaust note: Skip the axle backs and go straight to long tube headers. I ran a Magnaflow axle back for a couple years and then ended up putting the stock mufflers back on when I got long tubes because the car became unbearably loud. IMHO, it sounds far better with the long tube / stock muffler combo than it did with stock manifolds and the Magnaflows anyway.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazey View Post
I can give my 2 cents on a couple of your concerns.
First, concerning lowering springs and the panhard bar: The adjustable bar is mostly just to center the axle for aesthetics. The car will drive fine with the axle slightly off center. If you measure it now, it's likely already off center. Lowering the car only contributes a minimal amount to this.
Second, concerning the exhaust note: Skip the axle backs and go straight to long tube headers. I ran a Magnaflow axle back for a couple years and then ended up putting the stock mufflers back on when I got long tubes because the car became unbearably loud. IMHO, it sounds far better with the long tube / stock muffler combo than it did with stock manifolds and the Magnaflows anyway.
That's interesting. You happen to have any videos to see how that sounds? I'll check youtube, but it's hard to find specific examples like that.

Present
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes
2002 BMW 330i - 5-Speed

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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IMO, stay away from Flowmaster axle-backs. They will produce a terrible drone around 2100 RPM.

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
That's interesting. You happen to have any videos to see how that sounds? I'll check youtube, but it's hard to find specific examples like that.
Never took any videos. I'll see if I can get one that gets half ways accurate sound reproduction.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Auto headlights and cup holders are your biggest gripes? C'mon man.....
I hope we're not at the point where manually turning the headlights on and off and banging gears with a big gulp in the holder is a major problem?!?! Lol. JK.
Btw, I'll agree with you on one reason the new edge has one up on the s197 is the sound. With the right exhaust, they sound better than the 05-09s.
Imo, mustangs sound better as you go BACK in time. Not a fan of the newer 5.0 sound.
As far as which looks more like a "hotrod ", I found these two for comparison.
We'll let the masses kick this around for a bit.
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08 GT 5spd
Spectra CAI, Comp Cam Detroit Rockers, Kooks headers w/catted H-pipe, Revolution Automotive dyno tuned, FB430 race mufflers, 3.55s, JLT catch can, BMR Lca's and relo brackets. Prothane motor mounts and sway bar bushings.
20% tint, smoked markers and tail lights w/sequentials. Clear front signal covers, series 3 chin spoiler.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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I can't see why the 4.6 2V would sound any better than the 3V. With the same firing order and same bore/stroke, they should sound virtually the same too. Any difference is due to the cams and the design of the exhaust system.
As for SN95 New Edge vs S197 3V, the latter ticks all the boxes for me.


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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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About the speedometer calibration -- two things need to be correct: the rear gear ratio, and the tire size or revolutions per mile of the rear tires. So check to make sure the revs/mile is set correctly; you can look up the tires (make, model, and most importantly size) on the manufacturer's web site or on Tire Rack to find the revs/mile.


Regarding the mufflers -- for my tastes, the FRPP "KR" also known as "FR-500S" mufflers are just right; check your local Craig's List and e-bay and you might luck out and find a pair. The mufflers are super easy to change on these cars, so if you can find them cheap, it's easy to try different mufflers until you find one you like. Headers might do the trick too, but obviously a much bigger job.

| 2010 GT coupe | Daily Driver with some Steeda and GT500 take-off stuff for the occasional track day
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt95 View Post
I can't see why the 4.6 2V would sound any better than the 3V. With the same firing order and same bore/stroke, they should sound virtually the same too. Any difference is due to the cams and the design of the exhaust system.
As for SN95 New Edge vs S197 3V, the latter ticks all the boxes for me.
The different valves have an effect on the sound as well. The 2, 3, and 4v 4.6's share the same block and internals but aside from that they're pretty much completely different engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBert View Post
About the speedometer calibration -- two things need to be correct: the rear gear ratio, and the tire size or revolutions per mile of the rear tires. So check to make sure the revs/mile is set correctly; you can look up the tires (make, model, and most importantly size) on the manufacturer's web site or on Tire Rack to find the revs/mile.


Regarding the mufflers -- for my tastes, the FRPP "KR" also known as "FR-500S" mufflers are just right; check your local Craig's List and e-bay and you might luck out and find a pair. The mufflers are super easy to change on these cars, so if you can find them cheap, it's easy to try different mufflers until you find one you like. Headers might do the trick too, but obviously a much bigger job.
I looked up the tire rpms for both cars just based on the size, I didn't think the brand would have anything to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandGT View Post
Auto headlights and cup holders are your biggest gripes? C'mon man.....
I hope we're not at the point where manually turning the headlights on and off and banging gears with a big gulp in the holder is a major problem?!?! Lol. JK.
Btw, I'll agree with you on one reason the new edge has one up on the s197 is the sound. With the right exhaust, they sound better than the 05-09s.
Imo, mustangs sound better as you go BACK in time. Not a fan of the newer 5.0 sound.
As far as which looks more like a "hotrod ", I found these two for comparison.
We'll let the masses kick this around for a bit.
As far the New Edge vs S197 looks, these are probably a better comparison, and I'd take that Mach any day. Stock for stock, the looks of the new edge and S197s probably trade blows depending on the factory color and trim model. But the nicest NEs look better or more impressive than the nicest S197s imo. 'Hotrod' might not be the best word. Like I said, I really don't know what it is. Maybe the S197 looks too 'toyish' alot of the time when modded too heavily on the exterior. Then there's the drivetrain swap options available in the NE that are actually worth doing. Don't mean to rag the S197 at all, i love the car. Just not sure yet what I'll end up doing with it if I keep it for the long haul.
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Present
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes
2002 BMW 330i - 5-Speed

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
I looked up the tire rpms for both cars just based on the size, I didn't think the brand would have anything to do with it.....
yep, size is the most important but the revs/mile does vary a little by brand, so to get the exact right number you can look up the exact tires . . . but it's probably within the tolerance of the settings available in the tuner anyway

my only other guess on the speedometer issue is that maybe the adjusted parameters aren't actually loaded correctly into the ECU -- on my tuner you have to adjust the parameters and then download the tune, if you only adjust the parameters it doesn't actually do anything (until you download the tune with the adjusted parameters)


| 2010 GT coupe | Daily Driver with some Steeda and GT500 take-off stuff for the occasional track day
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