Just Installed New Gears - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010 Thread Starter
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Just Installed New Gears

I find myself to be pretty astute when it comes to mechanical/electrical things. I have done all the mods to my car so far up to the point of putting a new ring and pinion in my rear-end. After reading all of the threads on here there was a sense of fear being instilled in regards to attempting the install myself. So I called around and the cheapest I could find for a reputable dealer to install was ~$400 just for the labor. Brenspeed (about 45 minutes away) wanted $500 for the labor and said they don't warrant their work if they use my parts! What kind of sh*t is that? I had FRPP gears and bought a Motive Install Kit from AM. Quality parts. Anyways I wasn't paying someone $400-$500 to install a set of gears when I only paid $200 for the gears and the install kit. So I attempted the seemingly impossible....

I didn't feel like climbing under the car to do the gears so I just pulled the whole rear axle out to work on it on the bench (took about an hour to remove). It took me two hours to install the gears using the MHD method and then another hour to put the axle back in. So 4 hours total. The shop doesn't even pull the rear out so you're talking 2 hours of labor for $500! What kind of crap is that? Anyways, my real question is what the hell is everybody so afraid of when installing these things?! It is easy as long as you have a digital caliper and a dial indicator. Broke em in and no whining whatsoever. 4.10 is the way to go!


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010
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It's much easier, to install the gears with the rear axle left in the car. The only thing you need to remove, is the center chuck and pinion. Just remember the number of shims you remove, from either side of the center chuck, and the pinion it will make a difference on the mating of the two gears together when you check the mesh. Either way you saved a bunch of money and did it yourself, that's the only way you'll learn and I've been doing it for over forty years. And believe it or not, you still learn something new every day, Mike. SCT Tuner.


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010
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awesome job

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010
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come to overland park ks, and help me install mine please!!
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITLRUN View Post
It's much easier, to install the gears with the rear axle left in the car. The only thing you need to remove, is the center chuck and pinion. Just remember the number of shims you remove, from either side of the center chuck, and the pinion it will make a difference on the mating of the two gears together when you check the mesh. Either way you saved a bunch of money and did it yourself, that's the only way you'll learn and I've been doing it for over forty years. And believe it or not, you still learn something new every day, Mike. SCT Tuner.
Well it was easier for me to take the rear end out because I was working on jackstands. Had I had a lift that would have been a different story.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010
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Good job on the gear install. Have prices gone up for gear install? I had mine installed about 2 years ago and I paid $285 for labor. After they did my car the increased the price for future S197s to $325 because it was a PITA compared to the previous gen mustangs.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmantheman View Post
Good job on the gear install. Have prices gone up for gear install? I had mine installed about 2 years ago and I paid $285 for labor. After they did my car the increased the price for future S197s to $325 because it was a PITA compared to the previous gen mustangs.
I think they have, at least around where I live. The "scare factor" with installing them probably helps shops by allowing them to keep jacking the prices up. I guess my problem is I don't like other people messing with my car. If I do the work then I know exactly how it was done. Plus its more fun that way!

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010
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I just had mine done again, and to me it was worth the extra money.. I had an "experienced" mechanic do my first set (4.10s), and they were noisy. I had him open it up to check, and the pattern was dead on. Then when I went to do the supercharger, I went to 3.73's, bought FRPP and the motive kit, thinking the better gears would solve the noise problems, and the full install kit would replace ALL the bearings. I didn't notice a change in the noise, and after a few hundred miles I went on the highway, and they were so loud I thought the rear end was about to fall out. I had them tear into it again, and they told me it was all good, but they replaced the pinion bearing anyway, since I was concerned it had failed. It was even worse that second time.

The mechanic wasn't charging me for the labor after the first try, but he was charging me for more royal purple and the bearings and gasket and such since I brought all that to him rather than buy it through him. I didn't want to spend any more money, so I ended up shopping around.

I found a shop that guaranteed it would be quiet, and agreed to work on it for zero charge if it wasn't, regardless of how many tries it takes. They got it perfect on the first try.

Thing is, I hear this kind of story over and over both in person and on the forums. The mechanic that did mine originally has done hundreds of rear ends, and probably just didn't realize that the 8.8 is particularly testy. If it isn't done just right, you get noise.

I applaud your courage in doing the install yourself, and am happy to hear it is quiet. The question I have is, if it had turned out to be just a tiny bit off and noise was present, would you still feel that $400 is too much?

For me, spending $800 for parts and labor, knowing that it was going to be right with NO exceptions was totally worth it. Granted it took longer than it should have because they first ran a pattern, then carefully dissected the rear end trying to discover what all was done wrong, but in the end, I got what I wanted - a quiet rear end. After almost 2 years of fighting a noisy set of gears, the money was well spent.

I guess what I am saying is, it is great to do the work yourself and save yourself money, right up to the point where something isn't right and your lack of knowledge or expertise prevents you from figuring it out and fixing it. At that point, the extra labor all of a sudden seems worth it. Just my 2 cents.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlrStng View Post
I just had mine done again, and to me it was worth the extra money.. I had an "experienced" mechanic do my first set (4.10s), and they were noisy. I had him open it up to check, and the pattern was dead on. Then when I went to do the supercharger, I went to 3.73's, bought FRPP and the motive kit, thinking the better gears would solve the noise problems, and the full install kit would replace ALL the bearings. I didn't notice a change in the noise, and after a few hundred miles I went on the highway, and they were so loud I thought the rear end was about to fall out. I had them tear into it again, and they told me it was all good, but they replaced the pinion bearing anyway, since I was concerned it had failed. It was even worse that second time.

The mechanic wasn't charging me for the labor after the first try, but he was charging me for more royal purple and the bearings and gasket and such since I brought all that to him rather than buy it through him. I didn't want to spend any more money, so I ended up shopping around.

I found a shop that guaranteed it would be quiet, and agreed to work on it for zero charge if it wasn't, regardless of how many tries it takes. They got it perfect on the first try.

Thing is, I hear this kind of story over and over both in person and on the forums. The mechanic that did mine originally has done hundreds of rear ends, and probably just didn't realize that the 8.8 is particularly testy. If it isn't done just right, you get noise.

I applaud your courage in doing the install yourself, and am happy to hear it is quiet. The question I have is, if it had turned out to be just a tiny bit off and noise was present, would you still feel that $400 is too much?

For me, spending $800 for parts and labor, knowing that it was going to be right with NO exceptions was totally worth it. Granted it took longer than it should have because they first ran a pattern, then carefully dissected the rear end trying to discover what all was done wrong, but in the end, I got what I wanted - a quiet rear end. After almost 2 years of fighting a noisy set of gears, the money was well spent.

I guess what I am saying is, it is great to do the work yourself and save yourself money, right up to the point where something isn't right and your lack of knowledge or expertise prevents you from figuring it out and fixing it. At that point, the extra labor all of a sudden seems worth it. Just my 2 cents.
You make a very valid point and its this sort of thing (and I have read many stories of the same type on this forum) that scares people away from doing it. This is my take on it:

Had I installed them and they started to whine what am I out? $15 for a new crush washer and a pinion nut, thats it. I would tear it apart again and try to get it right. If all else fails, I revert to plan B and take it somewhere and get it corrected. The issues from what I have read are the selection of the components up front and making sure you measure more than once before you put everything together and it helps to actually understand how the LS dif works. I used FRPP 4.10 gears (the A's not the M's), the $75 motive install kit from AM, 2 qts of RP 75W140 and 4oz of friction modifier (not needed but won't hurt and is cheaper than buying another qt of RP to use only a tiny bit). Maybe it is beginner's luck with my rearend but I like to take a little pride in what I do. I could have written a horror story but luckily we can put this in the books as a success. I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did. I am just trying to promote a good DIY attitude. Don't be afraid or you will never learn!

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Sweet man, excellent work! Gears are tricky. I paid $250 to have mine installed.


4.10s FTW!!! The only thing I dislike about them is how load my BoomTubes are on the freeway...

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston951 View Post
Sweet man, excellent work! Gears are tricky. I paid $250 to have mine installed.


4.10s FTW!!! The only thing I dislike about them is how load my BoomTubes are on the freeway...
$250 for the install and I might not have screwed with mine as long as I got a guarantee.

Lol I know what you mean! I got boomtubes along with longtubes and an O/R midpipe. It's not too loud for me though. Luckily I have a huge stereo or I would never be able to hear it :nogrinner

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Too much to list and nothing really that great. If interested check out my profile.
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