Black Boxes in 2005 Mustang GT's - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006 Thread Starter
 
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Question Black Boxes in 2005 Mustang GT's

I am sure its been covered in this Forum in the past and I can't remember or find the answers. 1. Does the 2005 GT have a Black Box? 2. Where is it located? 3. Can it be removed or by-passed?. 5. Is it a supoenable piece of equipment? I would not want data to be availble which might show speeds double the posted limit eh? I noted in the news today the Automobile manufacturers must now tell buyers these devices are embedded in the cars they drive. GM supposely has them in all their cars. Big Brother keeps creeping into all aspects of our daily life. Pretty soon they will be able to monitor every move we make. If anyone has the answers I appreciate the response.

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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Just remember, even if this little black box does exist in the '05+ Mustang, it would be near impossible to get. Even if it is suphoenable, law enforcement would have to have at the very least reasonable cause, then they would need to go in front of a judge to get the suphonea. Then they would have to have a way to deterime how accruate the information is. Even if the black box records your speeds, in most cases, how would the black box know what the speed limit is? For example, if the black box recorded you going 80 mph, how would it know what the speed limit is. Hence reasonable doubt. Also even if you have a Stang that is cruising at 100 mph or more, it would be up to the law enforcement agency to prove you were not on a legal race track or on private property where a speed limit may not apply. It seems to me, that if such a box does exist, just means job security for the legal system.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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whew...thanks mrvandermey....i was sweating bullets for a sec there...
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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Saw this in a previous post by Glen who at the time was a moderator for the website

Most people don't know this but.....your car most likely has a Black Box that records how you are driving, including RPM's, Distance, Speed, Braking, Emissions, etc.

Every GM currently sold and many Fords have this Data Recording Box already in your car and watching your every move. Police can already get the Data and use it against you in court.

And NOW the Government and the Insurance companies want this information downloaded. Here is a recent article Black Box Article

This is not just a rumor, so what do you all think about this?

What does your car have to say about you?
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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lol...my car better not rat me out! i'm going with the vandermey track reasoning....judge i visit the track almost every night...and day...and afternoon...heck your honor...i live at the track...and when i'm not at the track i loan my car out to strangers...yes its hard to believe but my buddy had my car yesterday...and i dont even know his name...sooo weird...
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvandermey
Just remember, even if this little black box does exist in the '05+ Mustang, it would be near impossible to get. Even if it is suphoenable, law enforcement would have to have at the very least reasonable cause, then they would need to go infront fo a judge to get the suphonea. then thye would have to have a way to deterime how accruate the information is. Even if the black box records your sppeds, in most cases, how would the black box know what the speed limit is? For example, if the black bic recorded you going 80 mph, how would it know what the speed limit is. Hence reasonable doubt. Also even if you have a Stang that is cruising at 100 mph or more, it would be up to the law enforcement agency to prove you were not on a legal race track or on private property where a speed limit may not apply. It seems to me, that if such a box does exist, just means job security for the legal system.
interestingly enough, i recently had a discussion with our DA about those boxes. She told me it required a warrant to get it unless it is a fatality accident and the driver of that vehicle is dead. (guess b/c its kinda hard to violate a dead mans rights) (or charge him for that matter) on other accidents, she did tell me we can pull it from a vehicle and seize it for evidence preservation, but that we had to obtain a warrant to access the information inside. i would think that a warrant for that would not be very hard to obtain though. for instance, if i suspect high speed was the cause of a crash, and i have skid marks or other scientific data supporting that, or witness statements, then i bet any one of our district judges would agree that i have enough PC for a warrant.

bottom line though, most PDs have accident reconstructionists (like myself) who dont need the black box to map the chain of events in an accident or prove fault on a driver. we use good ol fashioned investigative techniques backed by scientific data, and dont need a computer to tell us what happened in a accident. so to those who are sweating over the boxes....dont. i suspect if i ever pull one, it will only be to further support the findings of my investigation, and i seriously doubt many accidents will come down to the "box" being the proverbial "smoking gun."

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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My thought exactly. In most cases, the black box is not going togive law enforcement anything they did not already know or can not easily discover with a little work. Right now the black boxes are in their infantcy so they will be questionable in court, or at the very least, challengeable. As GTNOS said, a warrant would be needed, and beleive it or not, judges do not hand warrants out like candy, the law enforcement will need probable cause...an accident is likely to be that. At that point, there is likely enough evidence to the fact that the black box will provide nothing more than confirm already discovered facts. I am a big advocate for protecting the right of privacy, but I am not overally concerned regarding these boxes.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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and for those of you who are overly concerned with your privacy rights that happen to drive GM vehicles equipped with ONSTAR, you may want to take issue with the GPS in your vehicle allowing government agencies (namely FBI) to track your vehicle via satellite everywhere you go, like they have a leash up your a$$. and since it is BROADCAST information, and there is no expectation of privacy, they dont even need a warrant. i know this to be true, as i have sat in a federal courtroom and heard testimony from field agents about thier "tracking logs" and how they obtained them.

2006 Tungsten GT 5 speed -Hurst | C & L CAI, | Predator running 91 torque tune (91 race for track)-BAMA. | MAC Boomtubes | FRPP 4.10s|Kaenan 3in cowl hood.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2006
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So as Jim Carey said in the movie "Liar Liar", "Quit breaking the law!!!" and all will be good. For those really worried about privacy, most cell phones nowadays also have a trackable GPS. But do remember, the FBI (and other agencies) just do not have the manpower to track every single person inthe US, so if they are tring to track you, it is likely you did something to quirk their interests. As GTNOS said, anything that is broadcasted over the air, you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy for. Technology is cool, but the law has not quite caught up to the technology. Just to note, the use of radar does not violate privacy either, nor does physically following you....iso f they boys in blue want you, there are so many legal ways for them to track you that a black box becomes almost irrelevant. Most likely the people who will use the black boxes the most will be plaintiffs in civil lawsuits, and maybe a few DAs is few drunk driving or vehicular homicide cases. But on the average traffic stop, the officer is not going to say "Sir, license, registration, proof of insurance and balck box information please".

One other note, insurance companies are not government agencies...tehy are spawns of Satan. I am for anything to hinder insurance companies coming up with more information so they can get even more stupid with their rates and their willingness to pay claims. In that one aspect, I think the black boxes pose a danger.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvandermey
insurance companies..tehy are spawns of Satan
that aint no sh1t. we need to be a lot more worried about them than the government. i saw a program not to long ago reporting how insurance companies would like a sample of your DNA for life and health insurance. that way they can fully determine your risk factor. i hope somehow we find a way to prevent them from doing that crap, or otherwise your new healthcare benefits package will list all of the illnesses/diseases that you might contract based upon your DNA that they will not pay for!!! talk about pre-existing conditions!!

2006 Tungsten GT 5 speed -Hurst | C & L CAI, | Predator running 91 torque tune (91 race for track)-BAMA. | MAC Boomtubes | FRPP 4.10s|Kaenan 3in cowl hood.

2006 F150 Supercrew Lariat 4x4 Black- 5.4, Hellbent Steel 2.5 level with 35x12.5x20 toyo m/ts on blk XD Hoss wheels, roll up tonneau, Gotts CAI, predator 91 performance tune.

Wifes Ride: 2013 Explorer XLT 2.0 Ecoboost. Stock as stock can be, but hey... on the bright side... she has a turbo!
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Yes they are in our vehicles (06's for sure). It explains it in my manual. The info is available to law enforcement, I'm sure via warrant and it would be for a specific time, location probably due to an accident. So, no problem if you were doing 120 "on the track" another day.

What we have to watch out for is (especially in Cali) is I've heard they want to download the data during smog checks! Now that would be out of control!

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Quote:
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What we have to watch out for is (especially in Cali) is I've heard they want to download the data during smog checks! Now that would be out of control!
Well - I guess I'll be transferring the ownership of my cars to my brother in Pennsylvania now instead of when I drive off into Mustang heaven. Another benefit is PA only has one license plate. Of course he'll have to wait to take posession until I'm gone
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I heard about this recently....there was a Nevada Highway Patrol officer that hit a car on the 15 freeway here in las Vegas. He killed 3 of the 4 people on board. The police dept took the black box out of his 2004 Crown Victoria and sent it to Detroit for analasis. The outcome was the black box said he was going 112 mph just before he hit the car, and therefore was speeding and he was at fault because he didnt have any emergency lights on or was going to any emergency. He was convicted of 3 counts of man slaughter and was sentenced to 5-20 years in prison. So, if this is true about the black boxes, it can give some info about how fast you were going just before an accident.
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Hey Mr. Vandermey or GTNOS,

No, radar does not violate privacy, but how about this one ... many scientific studies are proving that excess radiation has led to an increase in cancer over the last few decades. In fact, they hav shown a direct correlation between cell phone ue and brain tumors. So, should the police legally be able to use radar, or is that a violation of my right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," specifically the first, since it can affect health?

Mr. Vandermey, you're the lawyer... wanna take that one and run with it for us?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedz Pony
Hey Mr. Vandermey or GTNOS,

No, radar does not violate privacy, but how about this one ... many scientific studies are proving that excess radiation has led to an increase in cancer over the last few decades. In fact, they hav shown a direct correlation between cell phone ue and brain tumors. So, should the police legally be able to use radar, or is that a violation of my right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," specifically the first, since it can affect health?

Mr. Vandermey, you're the lawyer... wanna take that one and run with it for us?
That is a funny argument. If I recall correctly, the studies indicate that like cell phones, the radar gun may possibly emit radiation waves which may be a cause of brain cancer. Well, here is the problem, first of all, it is yet to be proven such actually happens. Next, even if it does, the law suit would be more properly defined as being against the manufacturer of the radar gun, not likely the law enforcement agency. Lastly, it is the officer that is likely to receive the harmful radiation waves (if any), since he is the one in close proximity to the radar gun. There is no scientific evicence that a radar beam pointed in the general direction of someone will even remotely cause any medical problems. So, although I do applaud you for thinking outside the box, the argument does not pass the "blush test."

Until the scientific studies are proven in a court of law, it is not likely that argument that law enforcement is violating your right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness will be volated. Good try though. :hihi:

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